More fun and games with the bloody Sargent in the Autotrail (1 Viewer)

[Wyaye wires]

Sounds about as useless as all the sergeants I ever came across when I was in the Army...

 

[Sunsets Unlimited.]

Sounds about as useless as all the sergeants I ever came across when I was in the Army...

Mornin.!!! or perhaps I should say, Good Moaning.!!

That bloody Sergeant Jaws is dealing with sounds bad enough, let alone the Army type. Still,, I'm to young to know about them types.

That Man there,,,, GET YOUR HAIR CUT.!!!

 

[Jaws]

Hope thats it !! Does your table stow behind ??

It stows in the master bedroom ( !! ) at the very back.. No where near any wiring at all

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[Robert Clark]

There is a known issue with a faulty batch of "polyfuse" in some Sargent panels.. Creating an issue with step operation.
This does not sound like that problem BUT may be worth checking with Sargent as they could tell you if your unit is one of the suspect batch..

We had a step issue in our Bessecarr and had to replace the Sargent box
They sent it direct to my home and collected the faulty one afterwards
Although our van is less than 6months old I preferred to do the swap myself as it was less hassle than going all the way back to the dealer
Regards
Robert

 

[Jaws]

YES !!!!! ( he says with various digits and appendages crossed !!! )
Took the EM50 unit out again and rather than just resolder every bloody joint I took the time to draw up a diagram of it.

Soon became apparent it was either a simple diode or even more simple relay.
Lifted the diode out and it checked out fine..

Put a meter across the relay terminals and that seemed ok too..
But I know relays.. I have spent many unhappy hours taking them apart and cleaning the contacts..
So I removed it complete and put a wee load on it.. Guess what.. got up to 500mA and went open circuit !!!!!!!
Took the case off the thing and with a small contactor file cleaned up the normally closed points.
Slapped it all back together and refitted the board in the box.
Popped out just now and refitted the assembly in the van and hey presto.. worked first time and ever subsequent time too..

Because the original fault was so intermittent I honestly cannot say 100% that it is cured, but finding a good solid fault like that makes me fairly confident it is now a done deal ( though at some time in the future I will replace the relay.. it is just a standard 12v 10 amp PCB mounted jobby so easy to get )

Ladies and gentle folk.. I ask you to keep all YOUR digits crossed for me too !!!!

 

[Gellyneck]

Who's a clever cookie then!!!

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[cruiser]

here's to you, hope you have found it.

 

[Jaws]

Welllll.. so far so good.. No floppy step at random times.. and the awning light is not sending morse code to outer space..

 

[vin0114]

hope you've sorted it. my step opens and closes ok but the entry door does not always lock and requires key-locking so will strip and check.

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[Jaws]

hope you've sorted it. my step opens and closes ok but the entry door does not always lock and requires key-locking so will strip and check.

That could well be the OTHER relay that is causing that.. ( there are two big blue ones and two smaller ones.. It might well be the one between the first relay and the block ( you will see what I mean ! )

 

[Jaws]

Forgot.. There are also two chips that are carrier mounted.
Just give them a good hard push down ( you will hear them reseat ) as I reckon that was another problem I had..

 

[Badknee]

Sorry about the multiple posts. In France with a very slow internet. Please ignore two, or indeed all of them .

Who said that?

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[GWAYGWAY]

Cut it off and buy a caravan step from Aldi (specials three weeks ago)

 

[Gellyneck]

and the awning light is not sending morse code to outer space..

So it's all you're fault that the Rosetta comet lander is having problems!
On a positive note though, just look at all the step class exercise you're getting operating and climbing up and down the step.

 

[Jaws]

And guess what ..
at 0015am this morning the sodding thing plopped out again.
The amount of faults I am finding on this ting is getting bloody silly..
Back to the drawing board .. updates as and when folks

BTW, who out there was not crossing their ruddy fingers and let me down ?? !!!!

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[Gellyneck]

BTW, who out there was not crossing their ruddy fingers and let me down ?? !!!!

Aw bug***.
And it wisnae me.

 

[Red Dragon]

Sorry Jaws it was ME, TWAS OUT WITH THE DOG ON ME BIKE!!!!
One hand on the handlebars
One on the Dog
Cannot cross me legs and pedal!!!! and me beautiful new puppy will not pull the bike for all the TREATS in China.
p.s
Hope you fix it soon the suspense and crossed digits are killing me

 

[Jaws]

Still the same issues..
Full list of symptoms
Step randomly pops out
Awning light sometimes stays on when van locked ( should go off after 2 minutes )
All jumpers removed from EM50 which has stopped the awning light coming on but the step still comes out and goes back in when van locked and unlocked ( with jumpers removed it should not activate )
Sometimes the step will not work off control button inside door
When it does not work, turning on the light directly above the door will activate the step ( !!!!! )

Just now I went out to have a quick check and whilst just standing in the van... the step popped out !!

ARRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[Jaws]

Forgot..
All sargent can come up with is to cut the wires that feed the pulse to the step.. which made not a jot of difference

 

[Jaws]

Finally gotg to speak to a chap called Guy who came highly recommended by Roland Rat ( thank you for that )
He came up with two new possibles .
The first, an easy one, was to remove the control panel above the door and unwire it.
Leave it out of line for a while and then refit. Apparently they can get a bit confused ( I am saying NOTHING !!!! LOL !!! )
Left it out for a couple of hours and just refitted it..
Exactly the same
Tomorrow it will be adding new earth straps / wires all over the place to see what that does.. It is far from impossible the hab side of things is not bonded to the chassis,, and if that has happened all manner of interesting things are possible !

 

[tonyidle]

YES !!!!! ( he says with various digits and appendages crossed !!! )
Took the EM50 unit out again and rather than just resolder every bloody joint I took the time to draw up a diagram of it.

Soon became apparent it was either a simple diode or even more simple relay.
Lifted the diode out and it checked out fine..

Put a meter across the relay terminals and that seemed ok too..
But I know relays.. I have spent many unhappy hours taking them apart and cleaning the contacts..
So I removed it complete and put a wee load on it.. Guess what.. got up to 500mA and went open circuit !!!!!!!
Took the case off the thing and with a small contactor file cleaned up the normally closed points.
Slapped it all back together and refitted the board in the box.
Popped out just now and refitted the assembly in the van and hey presto.. worked first time and ever subsequent time too..

Because the original fault was so intermittent I honestly cannot say 100% that it is cured, but finding a good solid fault like that makes me fairly confident it is now a done deal ( though at some time in the future I will replace the relay.. it is just a standard 12v 10 amp PCB mounted jobby so easy to get )

Ladies and gentle folk.. I ask you to keep all YOUR digits crossed for me too !!!!

Really confident engineers don't need to cross their fingers ..........................

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[Cal54]

Jaws I commend your determination to sort this problem. I don't understand all this tetchy stuff but have been following the saga and hope you get to the bottom of the problem. You deserve to get the issue resolved due to your commitment - can see you are a guy who doesn't give up easily!! Good luck.

 

[Jaws]

Tony.. I absolutely agree... however !
I have found SO many faults on the bloody electronic system my confidence has been somewhat shaken to say the least !!!

Cal, cheers This sort of fault just winds me up.
The electrics in a motorhome SHOULD be so basic.. In fact having dealt with quite a range of them now I can say without too much fear of argument that the system fitted in the Autotrail is possibly the most over the top overly complex P.O.S. I have ever had the misfortune to work on !!
The whole concept is flawed by virtue of its OTT nature.

 

[Jaws]

Right.. here we go again !!!!!

Today I tried Guys second suggestion.. earth straps and bonding this and that to known good earths..
All temporary to start with as I did not want to make more work for myself.
I started off by checking between cab battery and everything I could think of to see if I could find a potential difference anywhere..
Nothing showed up.. in fact I was quite impressed with the results to be honest.. Often when current is drawn it is not impossible to at least see a few mV on the meter but zip.. nadda.. nothing..

Nevertheless I went ahead and started interconnecting various bits and bobs..
No matter what I did where it made not an iota of difference

Sooo
Once again took out the EM50 unit ( the thing can almost walk from the van to the bench on its own now ! )
And this time I went a bit potty..
Every single major component was unsoldered and REMOVED from the board and then refitted
Honest truth is that I found nothing worth mentioning. No dry joints and the level of soldering was generally quite good.

I even unsoldered the multi-pin sockets and removed those in case there was something odd ( a bit of corrosion or a single hair of wire or somesuch ) hidden underneath them
Nowt..

Re-assembled the thing again and just plugged it all in.

It is working

I have NO idea if it will last or not but every switch and control is working as it should be.
The awning light comes on when it should and goes off after two minutes.
The step works on the button and not on the bloody light switch

I ran the same voltage tests as I did to start with and every sodding thing is the same.. Control voltages are the same, everything..

I am at a complete loss.
I am pretty confident now that the fault was ( IS ?? ) in the EM50 unit and not something else pointing at it..

Can only sit and wait now to see if it is cured or not... If it aint this time I think the only course of action will be a replacement unit.
It MIGHT be that the TTL chips are close to failing ( oddly they can do this.. the depletion layers in the chips can go porous and fire randomely ) or it might be the whole lunacy is over and I have somehow fixed the bloody thing.

Only time will ( once again ) tell

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[Sunsets Unlimited.]

Cut it off and buy a caravan step from Aldi (specials three weeks ago)

That's just what I said. Sorry.!!!

 

[Jaws]

Just not playing the game that !
Its kinda like when I decided to 'super tune' the first Smartie I had.
nearly 4 grand spent in total but it was QUICK.. Everyone I knew said why not just change the engine for a bike one..
That would have been cheating.. easier yes but cheating.

It has now been 19 hours since the last fix.. so far it is behaving its self ( but I aint exactly holding my breath !! )

 

[Jaws]

So it has been over 24 hours now.. I have tried it twice and all is as it should be still
If ( IF ! ) it remains as it should for three days I will then refit the EM50 to its normal location instead of where it is at the moment, propped up agin the wall !

Then, if it starts playing about again, the fault could be fault in the rather interesting loom that goes through the floor !
If that is the case then a whole of of crawling around and working on my back is going to be on the cards by the looks of it..
But one step at a time.. never know.. it MIGHT be fixed !!

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[gus-lopez]

I'll keep my fingers xd.

 

[Jaws]

Wellllllllll 2.25 days and it is still operating as it should.

If it is still ok tomorrow after lunch I shall be doing the final re-assembly and then hope it STILL behaves its self
If all is well I shall then do a complete blog type thing of how it all started and what I have done to cure it.

I know all the info is in this thread but reckon it might be easier if its all in one post

 

[tonyidle]

So it has been over 24 hours now.. I have tried it twice and all is as it should be still
If ( IF ! ) it remains as it should for three days I will then refit the EM50 to its normal location instead of where it is at the moment, propped up agin the wall !

Then, if it starts playing about again, the fault could be fault in the rather interesting loom that goes through the floor !
If that is the case then a whole of of crawling around and working on my back is going to be on the cards by the looks of it..
But one step at a time.. never know.. it MIGHT be fixed !!

I rather think one is enough

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