Michelin Agilis Camping Tyres

Discussion in 'Tech/Mech General' started by Daisy2, Sep 18, 2011.

  1. Daisy2

    Daisy2 Read Only Funster

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    My apologies for starting this new thread, when I know I've already asked questions under other threads and this is a topic covered in various places. However....

    Now knowing a lot more about tyres than I did a week ago! I have established that the Nankang tyres on my m/h (only recently purchased it) are either not ideal or actually not suitable. In terms of replacement I have been given a quote to fit Michelin Agilis Camping tyres with steel valves (£120+ vat) per tyre. Questions:

    - Are these a good tyre? Its a lot of money to spend and I don't want to change to something that isn't any good. I'm working on the basis that Michelin are generally considered a good brand....

    - Tyre pressure. My m/h is on a Fiat Ducato 14 chassis with 2.0 JTD (2002). The plate in the driver's doorway indicates fully loaded pressure of 72.5psi front and back. The van isn't fully loaded as max = 3400kg and we are no more than 3100kg (and ok on axle weights as well). The Fiat handbook is not very helpful. Under the tyre inflation section it lists 4 chassis types against the Ducato 14 (All types, low chassis, All types 141 code option and All types 143 code option). No idea what all these mean but the only two with a bar pressure (psi not mentioned) equivalent to the plate in the doorway is the low chassis or 143 code option so I guess its one of those two? These indicate a tyre type 215/70 R15"C (109Q)Camping Car (current Nankangs are 215/70 R15C 109/107P - so I don't think these match the required type and only inflate to max 65psi). Then at the end of the table are 2 columns. Overall heading = "Unladen and fully loaded". Then at the top of column 1 = "Front" and column 2 = "Laden". Both columns for both chassis options = bar 5. Does this mean that I should be inflating tyres to bar 5 (72.5psi) irrespective of the actual weight we are carrying?

    - Dependent on answer to q2 above, what should the Michelin tyres be inflated to? The tyre supplier I contacted sent me a photocopy of two pages from their Michelin tyre information. For the Agilis Camping tyre it states where no additional information is available use 68psi front and 80psi rear with notes that the front tyres can be adjusted following the rules for Agilis 81 tyres and rear tyres to use max 80psi for all loads. So combining that with the limited data in my Fiat handbook, what would be the correct pressures if I fitted these tyres?

    Sorry, I'm going to play the ignorant female card at this point :Wink: Just don't want to get this wrong....mostly because I don't want an accident due to getting it wrong, but also because I don't want any insurance issues either.

    As always, extremely grateful for your help
    Daisy2
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
  2. haganap

    haganap Funster Life Member

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    Hi Daisy, and no worries about the questions, it's what the forum is for and you dont need to be play the female card :Wink:
    The Michelin Agilis Camping tyres with steel valves are an excellent tyre. If you can afford them and money is no problem then personally I would go for them.

    However, I opted out of replacing them on mine and went for Avon AV9's and can not speak highly enough of them. The only issue I find with dedicated camping tyres is that they give quite a hard ride due to their construction, but not something that you would notice too much. :thumb:

    As for tyre pressures, on my previous 2-0 ducato I ran with 72 psi as per door post. After discussions with others and reading some articles I dropped them to the low 60s and the ride was much better and much softer.
     
  3. wivvy's dad

    wivvy's dad Read Only Funster

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    I don't know why there's all this fuss about specific Camping tyres.

    Basically, you're driving a White Van. White Van Man doesn't fit Camping tyres, he fits what is 'man' enough for the job, at the price that his pocket will withstand.

    Tyre pressures are recommended by the tyre manufacturer, NOT the vehicle manufacturer.
     
  4. haganap

    haganap Funster Life Member

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    But in this case they haven't been. They have been fitted with a tyre not man enough for the job if I understand the post? :thumb:

    Like you I am happy for non camping tyres hence teh Av9s
     
  5. icantremember

    icantremember Funster

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    Hello Daisy2, feel free to ask as many questions as you want, nobody minds.
    Anyway we have Michelin Agilis Camping tyres with steel valves fitted on our m/h has max gw of 4250Kg and run at 59psi front & 80psi rear .....these were fitted from new and we have no problems with them at all.
    If I was you I would have them fitted and then put the van on a weighbridge fully loaded as it would be when you are travelling. Ask the weighbridge to give you the total weight and that of each axle (front and rear)
    When you have these figures ring or email them to Michelin customer services (google for details) & they will provide you with the correct pressures for your outfit.

    I hope this helps, Brian
     
  6. jezport

    jezport Funster

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    Camping tyre walls are built to withstand the permanent weight that a motorhome puts on them. IIRC they have 12ply instead of 8ply, this also makes them more stable on bends and in wind etc. They also have a tread design which makes them better on grass.

    If you dont want a hard ride you can put slightly less air in them.
     
  7. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    Hi Daisy2,what exactly is wrong with your Nankang tyres ? Are they worn out ? Cracking ?not 8 ply or commercial ? Too old ? If none of the above then I would suggest you are in the trap of having a little knowledge and more money than sense IE reading about tyres and thinking you need them when you don't :Doh::BigGrin:Wait until they need changing then decide if you want camping tyres or as in 95% of cases cheaper normal commercial tyres - Good enough for everyday fully loaded delivery vans and good enough for most camper vans :thumb:Think of other ways to waste your money instead :Wink::Rofl1:You will be wanting (not needing) solar panels next :Wink:
    terry
     
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  8. TheTwoOfUs

    TheTwoOfUs Funster

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    White vans do carry equivalent loads to m/hs but they are constantly moving whereas a m/h can be static for many days, weeks or even months leading to deformation - hence the 12 ply construction to alleviate this.
    Also be aware that if your m/h manufacturer recommends m/h tyres any deviation from this could lead to your insurance being invalid.
     
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  9. haganap

    haganap Funster Life Member

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    Don't want to sound like a tyrefile guys but i thought exactly the same for a long period before getting the research to argue differently.

    1) 12 ply instead of 8 for dealing with loads a motorhome puts on them- Not true, the tyre is designed with a weight in mind that should not be exceeded, fact. It matters not what the Vechile putting the weight on is.

    2) more stable on bends. So white van man who drives his van with often more load than a camper is less stable on bends? exactly why? because the tyre is stiffer? not true. All tyres need to have give in them when cornering or we simply would be better on wooden wheels.

    3) white vans move more than motorhomes? well yes they do or don't they? or by your argument, what you would be suggesting is that if I own a white van I must move it or the tyres would not work properly? again, do you think the manufactures might end up with some significant claims on their concious if that were the case. Not all white vans drive all the time, some are laid up for weeks just like motorhomes fully laiden.

    4) insruance? not true, another myth. Your van must have the correct tryes shod on it that include tyre depth of tread along with weight. There is nothing to say that it must be a certain brand, that's a bit like a BMW insisting you can only run it on Continentals.


    5) if it were that tyres should not be placed on a motorhome unless they were specific camping car tyres, why would any fitter put them on? ATS/Thick Fit, Central tyres, lodge tyres, etc etc, IO must of emailed 10-15 fitters to get mine and look at recommended tyres. All gave perfect logic for the tyre choice and some even after being reffered to their technical departments. I wish I would of kept the emails, especially after all Camping Car tyres are more expensive you would of thought they would be reccomending them.

    The subject of tyre choice on motorhomes has been doing the rounds for years and years. There was a time, like you, I would have nothing but, until I read the research, and asked the questions. I am sure you are happy to continue paying the extra, but to suggest that in some way not conforming with camping car tyres is either illegal or in some way dangerous is not really fair.
    As I said earlier, if the OP can afford them then go for them because they IMO are a good tyre, but TBH I have much prefered the Avon A9s and I have never been stuck on grass and they pulled me through winter snow when my XC's didn't, they grip better for sure too.
     
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  10. haganap

    haganap Funster Life Member

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    Oh and just to add try here

    Whether you go for a LCV or designated motorhome tyres make sure you get tyres of the correct Load Index. Tyresafe does a useful publication at www.btmauk.com
     
  11. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    Must agree with Paul :thumb: Show me any insurance co that insist on camping tyres ? or manufactures for that matter ?:BigGrin:
    terry
     
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  12. haganap

    haganap Funster Life Member

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    But my favourite was these test results and well worth a read


    http://www.motorcaravanning.com/vehicles/tyre_test.htm

    Back in 2006 Pro Mobil tested eight 'van / light truck' tyres on motorhomes. They tested the tyres using experienced drivers and sophisticated measuring equipment on two motorhomes at a Pirelli test track. The 215/75 R16C tyres were fitted to Ducato based Hymer A-class and Hightop motorhomes for testing. The results make very interesting reading!
    A number of different characteristics were assessed and measured. Results from the tests on dry braking & handling, noise, rolling resistance, etc, showed up some differences between the test tyres but nothing very surprising. The dry braking test from 100 kph (62.5 mph) for instance showed about a 10% difference in performance between the best and worst tyres.
    The all important tests in the wet were a different matter altogether. When braking from 80 kph (50 mph) the worst tyre took 53% more stopping distance than the best. To put that into perspective - if these two motorcaravans were side by side at 50 mph and both tried to stop simultaneously, the vehicle with the worst tyres would still be travelling at almost 30 mph when the first one had stopped! That's serious by anyone's standards, a 30 mph impact is very damaging, even lethal. Even the market leading Michelin XC Camping tyre took 25% more stopping distance than the best Conti under these test conditions. It was also the worst tyre for aquaplaning - by some margin, very worrying!
    Have a look at these amazing figures for wet performance...
     
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  13. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    PS if anyone is taking off any 195 x 16 ins tyres off send them to me :thumb::Rofl1:I will need 4 please :Rofl1::Rofl1:
    Also got a couple of 185 x 16 ones if anybody wants them FOC They were on the fronts but I am not allowed to mix them with the 195 s on the back :Doh::cry:
    terry
     
  14. TheTwoOfUs

    TheTwoOfUs Funster

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    Nowhere did I say they were dangerous. I merely pointed out that tyres left in one position under load can set with a deformation. That's why caravan owners are advised to jack their wheels clear of the floor if they are to be stationary for long periods.
    I don't want to be the one who tests his insurance company's response to not having the same TYPE of tyre as that supplied with the vehicle. They are all too ready to abdicate their responsibilities without me providing them with a ready made excuse.
     
  15. Daisy2

    Daisy2 Read Only Funster

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    My :thanks2: to everyone for your posts, although I seem to have hit on a contentious topic :Eeek: I don't claim to 'know' anything much about tyres, or have money to waste. However I do have my 2 year old daughter travelling with me who is more precious than life itself....so if the tyres I'm driving on are not the safest I can fit then I will find the money to fit the best....I won't put a price on her safety. All I need to do is work out what the best are :Wacko: The Nankangs on there at the moment do not seem to match the spec in the Fiat handbook. Handbook = 215/70 R15"C 109Q Camping Car. Nankangs = 215/70R15C 109/107P with a max pressure of 65psi. This doesn't seem to meet the requirement? Based on the links from some of the responses, it looks like I might do better to fit the Continental Vanco Camper tyres rather than the Michelin? Seems to be a similar price to the Michelin. I just want the safest tyres I can fit of the right spec for the van :helpsos:

    confused.com - Daisy2
     
  16. ubuntu1

    ubuntu1 Read Only Funster

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    Tyres

    There are some interesting comments here.

    However there are big differences between white van man and motorhome owners. A white van will probably do more miles in a month than a motorhome does in a year,

    Motorhomes do sit with their tyres in one place for many weeks or even months. I have seen the deformation on four year old tyres.

    Buy a good quality "branded" tyre but make sure you have the right load and speed ratings. My advice is to go for a proper camping car tyre as you know that its designed for the purpose you are going to use it.
     
  17. madbluemad

    madbluemad

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    There will always be a good response to a question relating to tyres. I fitted a Michellin Camping Tyre to replace a damaged rear tyre that I had on.

    The Michellin blew out on me within a week. I was on the Motorway doing about 55mph.

    When the Michellin blew it put so much weight on my other tyre that it blew. I have double rear wheels.

    I woudn't touch another Michellin.

    I'm happy to use any Light Truck tyre that fits.

    Jim
    :Smile:
     
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