MCC Licensing CL's for public use (1 Viewer)

Jim

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Some might recall the thread where I highighted the fact that the MCC appeared to have a dispensation to allow the public to use their CLs, while the rest of us exempted organisations were restricted to licensing sites strictly for our own members.

This was a disadvantage to MHFun because landowners could make more money if licensed for public use rather than limit themselves to one clubs members. So they would (and did) choose the MCC over us for that very reason.

It seems the MCC have now been made "aware that this is not acceptable. All exempted organisations holding a para 5 certificate are subject to the members only rule on their certificated sites"

This appears to be the position of Natural England and IMO it is the correct view to take and is in the spirit of the planning exemptions for club use. However, I would have been happy with either view, as long as we are all treated the same, hopefully from now on we will be.
 
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Jim

Jim

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That could be interesting, I see the 'Nightstops' in Practical motorhome are run in conjunction with the MCC and you do not need to be a member.

Interesting indeed, I didn't know that was the case.

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GJH

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Thanks Jim. As I said on the other thread I, too, wrote to Natural England - but because I received the response whilst away last week I forgot to post an update :Doh:

I received the same information from Natural England and can see where they are coming from but they did confirm that, to the best of their knowledge, the issue has never been tested in court.

The ruling definitely does affect the Nightstops as well as the MCC CLs because, in law, they are no different.

It appears that several outcomes are now possible:
1. MCC accepts the NE ruling and restricts their CLs and Nightstops to members only.
2. MCC mounts a legal challenge against the NE ruling.
3. MCC ignores the NE warning and has their exemption withdrawn (which would not only affect their CLs/Nightstops but also their ability to hold meets/rallies). That would also, presumably, result in a legal challenge by the MCC.

It will be interesting to see which occurs :Smile:
 
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I didn't know the MCC had any camp sites? Thought they just held cricket matches!


I'll get me coat :Smile:

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Wildman

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If that is so then your meddling has effectively shut not only my site but hundreds of others, well done, very public spirited.:Sad: Price will have to go up now for future rallies to cover the shortfall. Funsters lose out as well.
 
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Jim

Jim

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If that is so then your meddling has effectively shut not only my site but hundreds of others, well done, very public spirited.:Sad: Price will have to go up now for future rallies to cover the shortfall. Funsters loss out as well.

Who knows what the MCC will do, they have a number of options outlined by Graham above. There are thousands of CLs that operate for one club and they are open, why should you be any different.:Doh: There is no reason why the MCC should be treated differently to the rest of us. If you consider my complaining about that injustice as 'meddling' then that's up to you, I certainly don't think so.

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Stephen & Jeannie

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Aren't we lucky !!

Who knows what the MCC will do, they have a number of options outlined by Graham above. There are thousands of CLs that operate for one club and they are open, why should you be any different.:Doh: There is no reason why the MCC should be treated differently to the rest of us. If you consider my complaining about that injustice as 'meddling' then that's up to you, I certainly don't think so.

Good ole James !! :Blush: Any other forum administrator (aka Hitler) would be posting banning notices all over the shop by now !!:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Fun rools....ok !!:Cool::Cool::Cool:
 

sedge

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MCC is the Motor Caravan Club.

Caravan Club CL's have ALWAYS been members only, as are C&CC CS's as far as we know.

Why should any other club operate under different rules when it's the same people issuing the exemption certificates? Rules are sposed to be applied the same to everyone, surely?

Everybody gets the same interpretation and unless you can show there are special circumstances that the certificate issuer agreed to when they granted the licence, how is there a legal challenge?
 

GJH

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If that is so then your meddling has effectively shut not only my site but hundreds of others, well done, very public spirited.:Sad: Price will have to go up now for future rallies to cover the shortfall. Funsters lose out as well.

Hundreds Roger? The MCC web site lists 72 CLs and 31 Nightstops.

I would hardly call it meddling by Jim. A very similar question was raised on the CC's own forum in February and has run to 640 posts. My own contact with Natural England indicates that they were taking action against the MCC well before the other thread opened on here a couple of weeks ago.

Like any other legislation the 1960 Act should apply equally to all and should be obeyed equally by all. The problem is that the wording regarding CLs is ambiguous. As I stated on the other thread, my interpretation is the same as the MCC's appears to be but Natural England disagree. Both interpretations could be argued in court but it is only the court which can make a definitive decision if the MCC does not do as NE want.

EDIT. The other aspect is that if the MCC are issuing certificates other than in accordance with the Act then all the CL sites are operating without either licence or valid certificate and, potentially, could have action taken against them. It is, therefore, in the interests of the CL owners for the legal position to be clarified.
 
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Jim

Jim

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Hundreds Roger? The MCC web site lists 72 CLs and 31 Nightstops.

I would hardly call it meddling by Jim. [HI]A very similar question was raised on the CC's own forum in February and has run to 640 posts. [/HI]My own contact with Natural England indicates that they were taking action against the MCC well before the other thread opened on here a couple of weeks ago.

Like any other legislation the 1960 Act should apply equally to all and should be obeyed equally by all. The problem is that the wording regarding CLs is ambiguous. As I stated on the other thread, my interpretation is the same as the MCC's appears to be but Natural England disagree. Both interpretations could be argued in court but it is only the court which can make a definitive decision if the MCC does not do as NE want.

EDIT. The other aspect is that if the MCC are issuing certificates other than in accordance with the Act then all the CL sites are operating without either licence or valid certificate and, potentially, could have action taken against them. It is, therefore, in the interests of the CL owners for the legal position to be clarified.

Thanks for the link, I tried to read it but quickly lost the will to live Graham::bigsmile:
 

Malcolm Bolt

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If that is so then your meddling has effectively shut not only my site but hundreds of others, well done, very public spirited.:Sad: Price will have to go up now for future rallies to cover the shortfall. Funsters lose out as well.

It's for times like this that this forum needs an 'I don't like this' button.
Really Roger I am very sorry if the outcome of all this means you need to change your use of the field but you should not try to blame others.

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camocam1

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MCC is the Motor Caravan Club.

Caravan Club CL's have ALWAYS been members only, as are C&CC CS's as far as we know.

Why should any other club operate under different rules when it's the same people issuing the exemption certificates? Rules are sposed to be applied the same to everyone, surely?

Everybody gets the same interpretation and unless you can show there are special circumstances that the certificate issuer agreed to when they granted the licence, how is there a legal challenge?

Have found that many CC CL's and CCC CS's are attached to sites or rally fields which are open to everyone
Stayed on a CC CL on angelsey where it was one "field" split into 3 areas
CC CL
CCC CS
General caravan site
They have now closed both the CL & CS as they did NOT pay !!!!
 
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staying on rogers site was the first time I had used one in a long time back to being freeloading tossers:thumb:
 

ourcampersbeentrashed

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I am a true believer, that if there is a rule and/or regulation then it should apply to everyone.

I can completely understand why Jim queried the regulations and having read about this more thoroughly I do not see why the MCC has got away with this as long as it has.

I can also understand Wildman's fears and frustrations because at the time he signed up for whatever he signed up to he was obviously given a different interpretation of the regulations.

So I can see at least 2 - actually 3 sides to this


If that is so then your meddling has effectively shut not only my site but hundreds of others, well done, very public spirited.:Sad: Price will have to go up now for future rallies to cover the shortfall. Funsters lose out as well.

I am not sure meddling is the most appropriate word on this occasion but i can understand where you are coming from.

When you signed up you understood certain things including that non members could use your site. If that is the impression or details they gave you at the time you have a valid recourse action.

This could also invalidate any contract you entered.

Who knows what the MCC will do, they have a number of options outlined by Graham above. There are thousands of CLs that operate for one club and they are open, why should you be any different.:Doh: There is no reason why the MCC should be treated differently to the rest of us. If you consider my complaining about that injustice as 'meddling' then that's up to you, I certainly don't think so.

I can understand where Wildman is coming from but I can also understand the injustice done to others and I have to say I think Jim is absolutely right it bringing this to the attention of the hierarchy.



Good ole James !! :Blush: Any other forum administrator (aka Hitler) would be posting banning notices all over the shop by now !!:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Fun rools....ok !!:Cool::Cool::Cool:


People on fun have different views and different agendas. The wonderful thing about fun is that providing views dont breach UK law and are not offensive - funsters are given the freedom to express their varying and diverse views

This is one of the things I actually like about the site.

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Sift

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Is there a link to the acronym guide so I can figure out what a CL is? I'm glad this thread makes sense to you seasoned Funsters. :RollEyes:

Regards,
Lee.
 

TheBig1

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to be absolutely fair i dont believe that Jim has rocked the boat or been the instigator of any challenge. from what i have read here and elsewhere, there has been a problem for a long time and Natural England knew it but were slow to react. the caravan club and camping and caravanning club would both benefit if non members could use their network of exempted sites. both big clubs have already invested time money and legal representation

either ALL the exempted organisations should have the right to allow non members, or none of them. level the playing field to avoid giving one business competitive advantage over the others. the decision though must be made in court to prove a precedent.

in reality though i am sure we have all seen 5 van sites with more than their allocation or non members allowed on. i am sure this will continue and that a simple work around that can be found. such as signing up temporary members on the site on day of arrival, all in the camping fee. it would still meet the rules as far as i can see and make a mockery of the exemption certificate system much the same as the mcc is currently doing
 

TheBig1

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Is there a link to the acronym guide so I can figure out what a CL is? I'm glad this thread makes sense to you seasoned Funsters. :RollEyes:

Regards,
Lee.
sorry was typing

CL certificated location as used by the C&CC, camping and caravanning club
CS certificated site as used by the CC caravan club
MCC motorcaravanners club
CFL certificated fun location as used by motorhome fun sites

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sorry was typing

CL certificated location as used by the C&CC, camping and caravanning club
CS certificated site as used by the CC caravan club
MCC motorcaravanners club
CFL certificated fun location as used by motorhome fun sites

so how many CFL is ther :whatthe:
 

Sift

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Sorry to distract from the debate - I'm new to all this club stuff. So certain sites affiliate themselves with certain clubs and, allegedly, provide preferential treatment to those members in return for increased revenue, as business will be funnelled through to them via the clubs? And there is also a set quota to allow non-affiliated public (or other club members) to use the Certified Locations.

Do I have that right?

Cheers,
Lee.
 

ourcampersbeentrashed

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to be absolutely fair i dont believe that Jim has rocked the boat or been the instigator of any challenge...........................

The reality is that with more complaints being received, the need for the regulator to act becomes more pressing.

To me, it does not matter who instigated action albeit it is now obvious the regulators should have taken action a long time ago avoiding confusion and animosity.

Perhaps the regulator has been negligent and/or lenient in the past which makes matters worse for those feeling disadvantaged now - but in reality we know this happens regularly because unless lots of people complain, companies and regulators just want an easy life.

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