Mapped (Not Google) (1 Viewer)

Brakers

LIFE MEMBER
Feb 28, 2016
1,182
965
Southampton
Funster No
41,813
MH
Chausson 768XLB
Exp
I'm Intermediate
Hi Fellow travellers, has anybody got any experience of mapping their engine. I’m buying a Autotrail Cheyenne 840D Fiat motorhome with a 2999 engine in it. I was talking to a friend and he said that a lot of people nowadays are getting their engine mapped; he says it improves performance and economy.

Now if that’s true why don’t the manufactures set it up like that at production?

Many Thanks Tony
 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
43,207
48,831
Dark side of the moon
Funster No
172
Exp
Since 2005
You can only have better performance at the expense of fuel economy.

Advertiser would have you believe anything.

Some say bevause you have more torque/power you dont need as much throttle.....rubbish.
To get more torque you need more fuel.

Does a highly tuned drag car return 30mpg....no, it uses 10ltrs to the mile

A formula 1 car is limited to 1600cc....and does an average 4mpg.
 
Last edited:

MC 55 FUN

Free Member
Feb 18, 2016
3,432
6,347
Rural South West Wales.
Funster No
41,707
MH
2015 Majestic 195
Exp
Since 20th Feb' 2016
Diesel engines respond well to a remap, I have a Superchips Bluefin on my 2014 Ford Mondeo 2.2 Titanium X Sport & it has transformed the '' driveability '' of the vehicle.

There are plenty of remappers & tuning companies out there, some good, some not so good - so I'd advise a modicum of caution, there are also tuning boxes available, but these shouldn't be confused with a proper remap.

You will have to inform your insurance company if you remap the vehicle & this sometimes results in a higher premium - but not always

As far as I'm aware manufacturers set up their engines with so called '' middle of the road '' settings that suit the vast majority of driving conditions / fuel quality etc that a particular vehicle may encounter in any given country & a good quality remap can bring the engine to life so to speak.

I have found that my vehicle does have improved m.p.g. & torque & am happy with my remap.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
?

****

Deleted User
In some cases is it not just a case of buying a new chip rather than sticking the motor on a machine.
 

mjltigger

Free Member
Nov 12, 2014
1,619
2,672
Trowbridge
Funster No
34,213
MH
Autotrail Dakota Max
Exp
2012
The truth is that you might be able to get a remap that improves both economy and performance by tuning the engine perfectly to the fuel, oil and air quality at the time of the remap. That's what decent engine management systems do every second of engine running but they sure so work to an average. You can improve on that average but it will be specific and temporary as the conditions change.

There's a chance on a motorhome that the engine could be tuned to give a more effective mix of torque and horsepower for the relatively consistent load it carries compared to the stock commercial vehicle base the engine is factory mapped for. I'm not convinced there are any companies doing that right now as I don't see them asking questions like 'how much water do tiu usually carry, where do your passengers sit' etc...

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

PP Bear

LIFE MEMBER
Apr 5, 2013
7,735
28,159
Kent, UK
Funster No
25,395
MH
Auto Trail Dakota SE
Exp
2012
You should look and search remapping. Lots and lots of threads on this subject. Nearly all have led to premature clutch failure, so be warned. Even reports of those that have had remapping done, clutch wears out and look to revert back to original spec.

An expensive mistake. Take advice and stick with what you've got :)

Remember, your motorhome is a commercial truck.....that's almost fully loaded 100% of the time. Those that claim benefits of mapping don't usually drive around with their vehicles fully laden :)
 

Charlie

Free Member
May 16, 2015
3,211
3,639
Herefordshire / Worcestershire borders .
Funster No
36,385
MH
Auto Sleeper Kemerton.
Exp
Im a newbie
Manufacturers have to work within emissions limits so cannot deliver the optimum set up straight from the factory.
This often means we won't get the best set up for power and or economy.

Remapping companies do not have to work within these parameters so can change things for the better.

It is absolutely possible to get gains in both power and economy plus a smother better torque curve . This means less changing down the box for overtakes and hills.

This engine / drivetrain however has a weak point . That is the clutch . More power and torque means more stress on the engine and transmission . Others here report the clutch is not up to the job and is not capable of handling more power and or torque.
 

Charlie

Free Member
May 16, 2015
3,211
3,639
Herefordshire / Worcestershire borders .
Funster No
36,385
MH
Auto Sleeper Kemerton.
Exp
Im a newbie
In some cases is it not just a case of buying a new chip rather than sticking the motor on a machine.

Live mapping on s rolling road is the very best way of mapping . It allows the engineer to fine tune and alter the parameters to the individual engine in the vehicle . This is far better than a generic fits all remap. Cost is more and this kind of set up is usually done on performance vehicles . Well worth the extra money IMO.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

MC 55 FUN

Free Member
Feb 18, 2016
3,432
6,347
Rural South West Wales.
Funster No
41,707
MH
2015 Majestic 195
Exp
Since 20th Feb' 2016
Reputable, responsible remappers will know the design tolerances of the engine to be remapped & take into account the nm ratings of the drivetrain components, including the clutch.

A good example of this is the 1.0 litre Ford ecoboost engine, available in several outputs - the only difference between the 100 bhp / ps output version & the 140 bhp / ps output version is the head gasket - all other engine / drivetrain components are the same, bar the different map which increases bhp output by 40%

A sensible remap will not exceed +20% to +25% % bhp increase & a similar increase in torque over the stock settings, aggressive maps can exceed this & that is where clutch issue can occur.
A + 20 % to + 25 % increase in output, both in terms of bhp & especially torque on a diesel engine will be noticeable.

Of course a bespoke remap is better than generic, but a quality generic remap is better than a tuning box which typically only alter a couple of parameters ( air & fuel )
 

PP Bear

LIFE MEMBER
Apr 5, 2013
7,735
28,159
Kent, UK
Funster No
25,395
MH
Auto Trail Dakota SE
Exp
2012
Hi Fellow travellers, has anybody got any experience of mapping their engine. I’m buying a Autotrail Cheyenne 840D Fiat motorhome with a 2999 engine in it. I was talking to a friend and he said that a lot of people nowadays are getting their engine mapped; he says it improves performance and economy.

Now if that’s true why don’t the manufactures set it up like that at production?

Many Thanks Tony
Follow this link and read all the posts reference remapping, then you can decide if it's viable or not :)
Broken Link Removed[node]=5
 

MC 55 FUN

Free Member
Feb 18, 2016
3,432
6,347
Rural South West Wales.
Funster No
41,707
MH
2015 Majestic 195
Exp
Since 20th Feb' 2016
Also read the reviews on the popular remapping companies websites to get a balanced view . . .

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Charlie

Free Member
May 16, 2015
3,211
3,639
Herefordshire / Worcestershire borders .
Funster No
36,385
MH
Auto Sleeper Kemerton.
Exp
Im a newbie
Reputable, responsible remappers will know the design tolerances of the engine to be remapped & take into account the nm ratings of the drivetrain components, including the clutch.

A good example of this is the 1.0 litre Ford ecoboost engine, available in several outputs - the only difference between the 100 bhp / ps output version & the 140 bhp / ps output version is the head gasket - all other engine / drivetrain components are the same, bar the different map which increases bhp output by 40%

A sensible remap will not exceed +20% to +25% % bhp increase & a similar increase in torque over the stock settings, aggressive maps can exceed this & that is where clutch issue can occur.
A + 20 % to + 25 % increase in output, both in terms of bhp & especially torque on a diesel engine will be noticeable.

Of course a bespoke remap is better than generic, but a quality generic remap is better than a tuning box which typically only alter a couple of parameters ( air & fuel )
Tuning boxes unless top quality often only contain a few resistors which increase turbo boost but not the fuel required to go with it. Dangerous at best.

Not all suppliers of remaps worry to much about whether the drivetrain and engine is up to the job. Even those that do cannot fully acess the condition of the engine or the drivetrain , they may be mapping a vehicle with s strong engine and drivetrain or one that is knackered.

The figures are only part of the story . It's the results when driving the vehicle that matters and the MPG. I would gladly sacrifice a few horses for a nice flat but strong tourqe curve,

Only on a dyno can the condition of the engine and drivetrain be accesed properly. A dyno will show exactly where the power and tourqe are added . A good engineer will map the engine for not only its power but the type of vehicle it is in. A dyno will also tell the engineer if. The clutch is slipping .

You cannot beat live mapping a vehicle
 

MC 55 FUN

Free Member
Feb 18, 2016
3,432
6,347
Rural South West Wales.
Funster No
41,707
MH
2015 Majestic 195
Exp
Since 20th Feb' 2016
Tuning boxes unless top quality often only contain a few resistors which increase turbo boost but not the fuel required to go with it. Dangerous at best.

Not all suppliers of remaps worry to much about whether the drivetrain and engine is up to the job. Even those that do cannot fully acess the condition of the engine or the drivetrain , they may be mapping a vehicle with s strong engine and drivetrain or one that is knackered.

The figures are only part of the story . It's the results when driving the vehicle that matters and the MPG. I would gladly sacrifice a few horses for a nice flat but strong tourqe curve,

Only on a dyno can the condition of the engine and drivetrain be accesed properly. A dyno will show exactly where the power and tourqe are added . A good engineer will map the engine for not only its power but the type of vehicle it is in. A dyno will also tell the engineer if. The clutch is slipping .

You cannot beat live mapping a vehicle

Agreed - that is why I used who I did - one of the best in the country imo
 
OP
OP
Brakers

Brakers

LIFE MEMBER
Feb 28, 2016
1,182
965
Southampton
Funster No
41,813
MH
Chausson 768XLB
Exp
I'm Intermediate
Hi Everybody

I must say I was not expecting the reaction I am getting from this thread. I am still reading and probably will be when they close the LID. LOL

But having said that the Fiat which will be mine this Friday 3ltr I’m astounded what a rubbish clutch it must have to not be able to withstand a modest amount of increased torque, with all these people burning out their clutches, is it due to remapping or expecting the vehicle to do 0 to 60 in 6 seconds a heavy foot or just an old clutch come to the end of it’s life or some other reason which I’m not going to say here as I don’t want to upset anyone.

Does anyone know if there is an upgrade to this clutch, to a ceramic with an up-rated pressure plate?

At the moment I’m going to pickup the motorhome and see how it performs, and then decide for myself if remapping or any change is necessary.

But please keep them coming, this thread is so interesting to me anyway, but then again I’m boring anyway lol.

Perhaps people who have a Fiat 3ltr turbo and have not had it mapped also those of you that have might jump in on the thread and give your opinions, they will all be most welcomed.

As I say “It’s only a fool who doesn’t use all the knowledge available at his fingertips.” And lets face it you chaps and chapeses “YES I KNOW IT’S NOT A WORD” lol have a wealth of knowledge that I would be a fool to ignore.

Thank you everyone who has contributed up to now and thanks anyone who contributes after this post.

Best Wishes Tony

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Steve

LIFE MEMBER
May 8, 2013
1,613
2,062
Compton Berkshire
Funster No
25,895
MH
C class
Exp
on and off for 40 years
I have a 2.8 jtd 4000kg mh which i had remaped. So you are hearing it from the horses mouth so to speak. Best single mod. i have done to the mh, now pulls much better where as before i was in and out of top gear all the time. I often pull a tailer. I have done 10,000 miles since the mod. done scotland and wales so pleanty of hills. Clutch still good. I read that lots of people have had problems one way or another, guess i'm the lucky one. The fuel consumpsion is about the same as it was just much better to drive. If you get it done i hope it works out for you.
Steve
 

DBK

LIFE MEMBER
Jan 9, 2013
17,969
47,804
Plympton, Devon
Funster No
24,219
MH
PVC, Murvi Morocco
Exp
2013
I've got a 3.0 Ducato but with the auto box, though that might even have the same clutch as the manual. I've found performance more than adequate given what it is - a 3.5t MH.

I was very sceptical about remapping and took the view the manufacturers must know how to do it properly but I've read a few independent reports which have changed my mind.

The crux of it is a company which knows what it is doing can match the engine management to the weight of the vehicle and even I think the usage. If you like to cruise at 60 on the motorway they can tweak it to get the best mpg at this speed.

The manufacturers, as already mentioned, produce a one size fits all mapping which works over a wide range of conditions but won't necessarily be optimum for how you are going to use the vehicle.

The trick is finding the right company to do it and recommendations on here are a good start.

However, I would challenge your friend's assertion "lots of people are getting it done" a few are but I suspect something like 98% of MHs if not more are still unmodified.
 
OP
OP
Brakers

Brakers

LIFE MEMBER
Feb 28, 2016
1,182
965
Southampton
Funster No
41,813
MH
Chausson 768XLB
Exp
I'm Intermediate
though that might even have the same clutch as the manual
Hi There DBK, If i'm not mistaken if yours is an automatic it will have a fluid flywheel. :)
Best Wishes Tony

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

funflair

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 11, 2013
19,199
29,888
Guisborough
Funster No
29,351
MH
MORELO palace
Exp
since 2012
Hi There DBK, If i'm not mistaken if yours is an automatic it will have a fluid flywheel. :)
Best Wishes Tony

Automated clutch on the robotised manual gearboxes, you are right though a full auto would be a torque converter but Fiat don't do them, Mercedes or new IVECO.
 

Charlie

Free Member
May 16, 2015
3,211
3,639
Herefordshire / Worcestershire borders .
Funster No
36,385
MH
Auto Sleeper Kemerton.
Exp
Im a newbie
Agreed - that is why I used who I did - one of the best in the country imo

Had quite some experience of mapping fuel injected motorcycles and track cars over many years..

We used to say... Bolting on a tuning box or remapping the standard ECUs gave gains. To get the best though the bike or car would have to be strapped to a rolling road dynamometer so the kit could be tuned to the engine it was to work with.

It's a case of making the best of the expensive equipment .

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Last edited:

Steve

LIFE MEMBER
May 8, 2013
1,613
2,062
Compton Berkshire
Funster No
25,895
MH
C class
Exp
on and off for 40 years
Hi Steve thanks for that, just one small question what does the J stand for in jtd?
Many Thanks Tony
I dont know, the TD i would think is turbo Diesel but the J ? may be a type. To have a map it has to be electronic fuel injection maybe some had the mecanicl system.
 

DBK

LIFE MEMBER
Jan 9, 2013
17,969
47,804
Plympton, Devon
Funster No
24,219
MH
PVC, Murvi Morocco
Exp
2013
Hi There DBK, If i'm not mistaken if yours is an automatic it will have a fluid flywheel. :)
Best Wishes Tony
Oh, that was my deliberate poo trap! I knew someone would fall for it. And traditional autos have torque converters not fluid flywheels these days but as already pointed out the Ducato doesn't have a traditional auto either so has neither.

It is indeed a complicated world and none more so than the world of vehicle manufacturers. For example, the Nissan Cabstar truck isn't made by the Nissan that make cars. And they are owned now by Volvo - but not the Volvo that make cars either. Previously they were owned by Renault - but not the bit of Renault which makes cars.

I'm sure everyone is glad that's been cleared up! :)

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
Brakers

Brakers

LIFE MEMBER
Feb 28, 2016
1,182
965
Southampton
Funster No
41,813
MH
Chausson 768XLB
Exp
I'm Intermediate
Anyone else want to wade in, what does the "j" mean when talking about I think an engine in a Fiat JTD? all comical interpretations welcomed as I could do with a good laugh with my brain aching reading the copious amounts of info on this subject. LOL

Many Thanks Tony
 

MC 55 FUN

Free Member
Feb 18, 2016
3,432
6,347
Rural South West Wales.
Funster No
41,707
MH
2015 Majestic 195
Exp
Since 20th Feb' 2016
Anyone else want to wade in, what does the "j" mean when talking about I think an engine in a Fiat JTD? all comical interpretations welcomed as I could do with a good laugh with my brain aching reading the copious amounts of info on this subject. LOL

Many Thanks Tony

The J in jtd is an initialism of multiJet :)

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
Brakers

Brakers

LIFE MEMBER
Feb 28, 2016
1,182
965
Southampton
Funster No
41,813
MH
Chausson 768XLB
Exp
I'm Intermediate
Oh, that was my deliberate poo trap!

Remember there are no hard questions if you know the answer and the only stupid question is one that is not asked. Remember I did say "If I'm not mistaken" so I wasn’t saying for definite it was a fluid flywheel only asking the question. But thank you for the information and putting me right.
 
Last edited:

MC 55 FUN

Free Member
Feb 18, 2016
3,432
6,347
Rural South West Wales.
Funster No
41,707
MH
2015 Majestic 195
Exp
Since 20th Feb' 2016
The first generation of Fiat's commonrails were uniJet & still called JTD with the J being used as an initialism :)
 

Charlie

Free Member
May 16, 2015
3,211
3,639
Herefordshire / Worcestershire borders .
Funster No
36,385
MH
Auto Sleeper Kemerton.
Exp
Im a newbie
The J is an indication that means the engine has uniJet Turbo Diesel. It means that the fuel injection system is the later more modern common rail type ,
There is quite some difference between TD and JTD.

Ford indicate the same by the designation TDCI. Turbo Diesel Commom rail Injection .

Previous non Commom rail equipped engines were simply TD.

Basically the J denotes the engine is Commom Rail technology .

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top