Mapped (Not Google)

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Brakers, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. Brakers

    Brakers Funster Life Member

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    Hi Fellow travellers, has anybody got any experience of mapping their engine. I’m buying a Autotrail Cheyenne 840D Fiat motorhome with a 2999 engine in it. I was talking to a friend and he said that a lot of people nowadays are getting their engine mapped; he says it improves performance and economy.

    Now if that’s true why don’t the manufactures set it up like that at production?

    Many Thanks Tony
     
  2. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    You can only have better performance at the expense of fuel economy.

    Advertiser would have you believe anything.

    Some say bevause you have more torque/power you dont need as much throttle.....rubbish.
    To get more torque you need more fuel.

    Does a highly tuned drag car return 30mpg....no, it uses 10ltrs to the mile

    A formula 1 car is limited to 1600cc....and does an average 4mpg.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
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  3. MH 55 FUN

    MH 55 FUN Funster

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    Diesel engines respond well to a remap, I have a Superchips Bluefin on my 2014 Ford Mondeo 2.2 Titanium X Sport & it has transformed the '' driveability '' of the vehicle.

    There are plenty of remappers & tuning companies out there, some good, some not so good - so I'd advise a modicum of caution, there are also tuning boxes available, but these shouldn't be confused with a proper remap.

    You will have to inform your insurance company if you remap the vehicle & this sometimes results in a higher premium - but not always

    As far as I'm aware manufacturers set up their engines with so called '' middle of the road '' settings that suit the vast majority of driving conditions / fuel quality etc that a particular vehicle may encounter in any given country & a good quality remap can bring the engine to life so to speak.

    I have found that my vehicle does have improved m.p.g. & torque & am happy with my remap.
     
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  4. ****

    **** Read Only Funster

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    In some cases is it not just a case of buying a new chip rather than sticking the motor on a machine.
     
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  5. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    I believe it was @Forestboy had a remap as a trial....he had it removed as a waste of time..

    well documented by Rory somewhere on the forum
     
  6. mjltigger

    mjltigger Funster

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    The truth is that you might be able to get a remap that improves both economy and performance by tuning the engine perfectly to the fuel, oil and air quality at the time of the remap. That's what decent engine management systems do every second of engine running but they sure so work to an average. You can improve on that average but it will be specific and temporary as the conditions change.

    There's a chance on a motorhome that the engine could be tuned to give a more effective mix of torque and horsepower for the relatively consistent load it carries compared to the stock commercial vehicle base the engine is factory mapped for. I'm not convinced there are any companies doing that right now as I don't see them asking questions like 'how much water do tiu usually carry, where do your passengers sit' etc...
     
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  7. PP Bear

    PP Bear Funster Life Member

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    You should look and search remapping. Lots and lots of threads on this subject. Nearly all have led to premature clutch failure, so be warned. Even reports of those that have had remapping done, clutch wears out and look to revert back to original spec.

    An expensive mistake. Take advice and stick with what you've got :)

    Remember, your motorhome is a commercial truck.....that's almost fully loaded 100% of the time. Those that claim benefits of mapping don't usually drive around with their vehicles fully laden :)
     
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  8. Charlie

    Charlie Funster

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    Manufacturers have to work within emissions limits so cannot deliver the optimum set up straight from the factory.
    This often means we won't get the best set up for power and or economy.

    Remapping companies do not have to work within these parameters so can change things for the better.

    It is absolutely possible to get gains in both power and economy plus a smother better torque curve . This means less changing down the box for overtakes and hills.

    This engine / drivetrain however has a weak point . That is the clutch . More power and torque means more stress on the engine and transmission . Others here report the clutch is not up to the job and is not capable of handling more power and or torque.
     
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  9. Charlie

    Charlie Funster

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    Live mapping on s rolling road is the very best way of mapping . It allows the engineer to fine tune and alter the parameters to the individual engine in the vehicle . This is far better than a generic fits all remap. Cost is more and this kind of set up is usually done on performance vehicles . Well worth the extra money IMO.
     
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  10. MH 55 FUN

    MH 55 FUN Funster

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    Reputable, responsible remappers will know the design tolerances of the engine to be remapped & take into account the nm ratings of the drivetrain components, including the clutch.

    A good example of this is the 1.0 litre Ford ecoboost engine, available in several outputs - the only difference between the 100 bhp / ps output version & the 140 bhp / ps output version is the head gasket - all other engine / drivetrain components are the same, bar the different map which increases bhp output by 40%

    A sensible remap will not exceed +20% to +25% % bhp increase & a similar increase in torque over the stock settings, aggressive maps can exceed this & that is where clutch issue can occur.
    A + 20 % to + 25 % increase in output, both in terms of bhp & especially torque on a diesel engine will be noticeable.

    Of course a bespoke remap is better than generic, but a quality generic remap is better than a tuning box which typically only alter a couple of parameters ( air & fuel )
     
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  11. PP Bear

    PP Bear Funster Life Member

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    Follow this link and read all the posts reference remapping, then you can decide if it's viable or not :)
    http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/search/18268023/?q=Remapping&o=relevance&c[node]=5
     
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  12. MH 55 FUN

    MH 55 FUN Funster

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    Also read the reviews on the popular remapping companies websites to get a balanced view . . .
     
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  13. Charlie

    Charlie Funster

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    Tuning boxes unless top quality often only contain a few resistors which increase turbo boost but not the fuel required to go with it. Dangerous at best.

    Not all suppliers of remaps worry to much about whether the drivetrain and engine is up to the job. Even those that do cannot fully acess the condition of the engine or the drivetrain , they may be mapping a vehicle with s strong engine and drivetrain or one that is knackered.

    The figures are only part of the story . It's the results when driving the vehicle that matters and the MPG. I would gladly sacrifice a few horses for a nice flat but strong tourqe curve,

    Only on a dyno can the condition of the engine and drivetrain be accesed properly. A dyno will show exactly where the power and tourqe are added . A good engineer will map the engine for not only its power but the type of vehicle it is in. A dyno will also tell the engineer if. The clutch is slipping .

    You cannot beat live mapping a vehicle
     
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  14. MH 55 FUN

    MH 55 FUN Funster

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    Agreed - that is why I used who I did - one of the best in the country imo
     
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  15. Brakers

    Brakers Funster Life Member

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    Hi Everybody

    I must say I was not expecting the reaction I am getting from this thread. I am still reading and probably will be when they close the LID. LOL

    But having said that the Fiat which will be mine this Friday 3ltr I’m astounded what a rubbish clutch it must have to not be able to withstand a modest amount of increased torque, with all these people burning out their clutches, is it due to remapping or expecting the vehicle to do 0 to 60 in 6 seconds a heavy foot or just an old clutch come to the end of it’s life or some other reason which I’m not going to say here as I don’t want to upset anyone.

    Does anyone know if there is an upgrade to this clutch, to a ceramic with an up-rated pressure plate?

    At the moment I’m going to pickup the motorhome and see how it performs, and then decide for myself if remapping or any change is necessary.

    But please keep them coming, this thread is so interesting to me anyway, but then again I’m boring anyway lol.

    Perhaps people who have a Fiat 3ltr turbo and have not had it mapped also those of you that have might jump in on the thread and give your opinions, they will all be most welcomed.

    As I say “It’s only a fool who doesn’t use all the knowledge available at his fingertips.” And lets face it you chaps and chapeses “YES I KNOW IT’S NOT A WORD” lol have a wealth of knowledge that I would be a fool to ignore.

    Thank you everyone who has contributed up to now and thanks anyone who contributes after this post.

    Best Wishes Tony
     
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  16. Steve

    Steve Funster Life Member

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    I have a 2.8 jtd 4000kg mh which i had remaped. So you are hearing it from the horses mouth so to speak. Best single mod. i have done to the mh, now pulls much better where as before i was in and out of top gear all the time. I often pull a tailer. I have done 10,000 miles since the mod. done scotland and wales so pleanty of hills. Clutch still good. I read that lots of people have had problems one way or another, guess i'm the lucky one. The fuel consumpsion is about the same as it was just much better to drive. If you get it done i hope it works out for you.
    Steve
     
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  17. John Laidler

    John Laidler Funster

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    I've got a 3.0 Ducato but with the auto box, though that might even have the same clutch as the manual. I've found performance more than adequate given what it is - a 3.5t MH.

    I was very sceptical about remapping and took the view the manufacturers must know how to do it properly but I've read a few independent reports which have changed my mind.

    The crux of it is a company which knows what it is doing can match the engine management to the weight of the vehicle and even I think the usage. If you like to cruise at 60 on the motorway they can tweak it to get the best mpg at this speed.

    The manufacturers, as already mentioned, produce a one size fits all mapping which works over a wide range of conditions but won't necessarily be optimum for how you are going to use the vehicle.

    The trick is finding the right company to do it and recommendations on here are a good start.

    However, I would challenge your friend's assertion "lots of people are getting it done" a few are but I suspect something like 98% of MHs if not more are still unmodified.
     
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  18. Brakers

    Brakers Funster Life Member

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    Hi There DBK, If i'm not mistaken if yours is an automatic it will have a fluid flywheel. :)
    Best Wishes Tony
     
  19. Brakers

    Brakers Funster Life Member

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    Hi Steve thanks for that, just one small question what does the J stand for in jtd?
    Many Thanks Tony
     
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  20. funflair

    funflair Funster Life Member

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    Automated clutch on the robotised manual gearboxes, you are right though a full auto would be a torque converter but Fiat don't do them, Mercedes or new IVECO.
     
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