Mains Hook-up Cable (1 Viewer)

[Tweedie]

A silly question - The 25m mains hook up cable that was supplied with our new motorhome is very stiff to handle it's like wrestling with a snake!! when trying to pack it away and it just seems stay kinked, it is rated 16 amp & 2.5mm core which I assume is the norm. Was just wondering if all mains hook ups are the same, will it get more plyable with use. Also would keeping it on a storage reel make it easier to handle. Thanks for advice in advance

 

[sdc77]

Lol .. of course. I can too but, when even ces sell ready made leads that don't comply with those standards one has to wonder if the standards mean anything at all.
Although I can make up my own leads ..I probably wouldn't and neither would thousands of others on here and even more caravan owners.
Which calls into question the standards surely and if they aren't adhered to or enforceable what's the point of them and are they valid?
Again I'm not having a go at anyone here but the matter was raised and..like I said. I can't find any leads currently sold ready made that state they are to that standard.

 

[Bertie Bassett]

Lol .. of course. I can too but, when even ces sell ready made leads that don't comply with those standards one has to wonder if the standards mean anything at all.
Although I can make up my own leads ..I probably wouldn't and neither would thousands of others on here and even more caravan owners.
Which calls into question the standards surely and if they aren't adhered to or enforceable what's the point of them and are they valid?
Again I'm not having a go at anyone here but the matter was raised and..like I said. I can't find any leads currently sold ready made that state they are to that standard.

Agree with all you say. Some of the cables I bought in the eighties were dodgy in the extreme which is why I started making my own up.

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[jonandshell]

I hope nobody from the NCC or Caravan Club is reading this.
It would be an excuse for another regulation or two!
Standby for a new rule saying we have to use 6mm bright orange shielded cable which is impossible to coil and should only be used with trip hazard signs......

That will eliminate trips, falls and caravan fires!

 

[Gorse Hill]

@Gorse Hill thanks for the link and I can find cables but I cannot see any ready made (because that's how most of us buy them) hook up cables that are shown as HO7RN-F/HO5 RN-F 2.5mmSq. That's my point.

Give us your address, I will buy it, connect the commando plug, pay for it and send it to you, don't worry about sending me the money it's free
Wouldn't want to see anyone who can't connect 3 cables (same as a plug) go without, want length do you want it sdc
Ps I can also come and connect you to the supply FOC

 

[Gorse Hill]

one has to wonder if the standards mean anything at all.
I can't find any leads currently sold ready made .

Only when something goes wrong do the regs/standards mean anything, hopefully nothing will
I've seen plenty of leads too the Spec in caravan shops, your eyes are not painted on are they sdc

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[sdc77]

Well.. I could make my own but we have one. So thanks . .
My challenge to point me at a correctly regulated one online still stands though.
After all it wasnt me who started quoting these standards ... or was it.

 

[eddie]

The cheaper the flex the worse it is to manhandle memory wise. I have made up using artic flex, 5, 10, 15, & 25m leads

I pace out the gap and use the appropriate size hook up lead for the job (or in Spain all of them lol)

 

[sdc77]

Eddie and I'm sure they're fine. But apparently that cable doesn't meet the correct regs.
Which is why I asked the question of our electrical experts.

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[gus-lopez]

Leaving aside whether it is to spec or not but just the colours to many working in an industrial environment would confuse them , possibly dangerously.
Yellow = 110v
blue = 220v

 

[scotjimland]

But apparently that cable doesn't meet the correct regs.

I already quoted the regulation from the 16th edition..

Electrical regulation 7.9.2 - Caravan installations which states..

Every caravan which includes an electrical installation must be provided with a flexible lead not more than 25 m long fitted with a BS EN 60309-2 plug and a BS EN 60309-2 connector with the keyway at position 6h. The cross-sectional area of the cable must be related to the rated current of the plug as shown by {Table 7.6}.

Table 7.6 - Cross-sectional areas of flexible cables
---------------- and cords for supplying caravan connectors
Rated current of plug (A) Cross-sectional area (mm²)
16 2.5

25 4.0

32 6.0

63 16.0


It does not specify colour or whether Arctic Blue or Yellow.. Black or Tartan


This is from the 17th Edition regs.. note there is no spec for the cable.. in either the 16th or 17th editions

 

[stevec]

So what do I need to look out for when buying either unterminated cable or made up cable? I have the 25m cable supplied with the MH by the dealer but sometimes use a 10m 1.5mm2 cable when close to an outlet (perfectly adequate for our meagre mains usage). What markings should be on the cable?

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[laird of Dunstan]

Hehe you guys cheered me up this morning, nothing like a good debate on the sparkles regs , not having my copy of the 17th edition at hand.

I'm with scotjimland on this ,if its not in the regs it does not count , there be a complete chapter covering campsites

 

[scotjimland]

There is no cable spec other than it should be flexible cable rated at 300/500 v and rated for the load.. 2.5mm 3 core

You could buy 3 core SWA Cable that could be run over by a tank.. but it would be weighty and a bugger to coil up.. way over the top.. totally impractical..

or you could buy Multi-flex SY cable.. again, very robust and could be run over by light vehicles without damage.. but it's also heavy and bulky.. not very practical..

or you could buy 'normal' mains flexible cable from any decent electrical wholesaler.. for example TLC Electrical Supplies orange is favourite as it is easily seen.. but it could be black, white , blue yellow or tartan.. makes no odds.. the regs do not stipulate sheath colour ..but if you plan on winter camping or skiing in the Alps.. better with Arctic cable..

Black

or

Arctic Blue

Arctic Yellow

and why is this you ask, why is it not stated in the electrical regulations ?

because the camp-site supply socket is protected by a 30ma RCD that will trip if your cable is damaged and the cores shorted to earth ..

good practice on sites is to run your cable around the perimeter of the pitch and NOT across roads or access point to the pitch.

so.. in summing up.. buy good quality 3 core, 2.5mm, 300/500v, flexible cable from a reputable supplier...

 

[Old Soldier]

Good thing Tweedie in the original post said "A silly question " or else this thread would go on and on.......and on!!

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[funflair]

I found this quite interesting, on a cold morning anyway.

Martin

Harmonised Cable Coding
---------------------------------------------------
Identification of design
H Harmonised Standards
A Authorised National standards

Nominal voltages
03 300/300V
05 300/500V
07 450/750V

Insulating Material
V PVC
R Rubber
S Silicon

Sheathing Material
V PVC
R Rubber
N Polychloroprene (PCP)
J Glassfibre braid (GFB)
T Textile
T2 Textile with flame resistance

Special construction
H Flat, divisible cords
H2 Flat, Non-divisible cords
D5 Central core (non-supported element)

Conductor form
U Solid wire
R Stranded wire
K Fine wire (for permanent installation)
F Fine wire (for flexible cables)
H Super-fine wire
Y Tinsel

Number of cores
2 2 Core
3 3 Core

_____________________________________________

EXAMPLE
H05VV-F3
Harmonised, 300/500V, PVC, PVC, Fine wire flexible cable, 3 core

 

[Tweedie]

Yes a silly question it must have been but I have now learnt so much about electric cables and hook ups and safety when using hook up I think the debate has been a really good informative read over the long winter nights. Anyway back to my original post I have now ordered a cable reel for storage of hook up, will fully unwind it when plugging in and keep practising my snake wrestling skills!!. Might also get a shorter 10m cable as well, as 25m often seems to be far too long.

 

[mitzimad]

Yes a silly question it must have been but I have now learnt so much about electric cables and hook ups and safety when using hook up I think the debate has been a really good informative read over the long winter nights. Anyway back to my original post I have now ordered a cable reel for storage of hook up, will fully unwind it when plugging in and keep practising my snake wrestling skills!!. Might also get a shorter 10m cable as well, as 25m often seems to be far too long.

buy a plug and socket and turn the existing lead into one 10m and one 15 m

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[Peter Sansom]

Why try and coil it? I simply wrap it around my elbow and thumb just like mi mam's washing line. Amazingly, mine naturally forms a figure of eight.

Concur with that. If you have a rag/cloth in your hand it wipes the grass/dirt off as you wrap it round your arm. Mine has a home in a circular bag with a zip, keeps it from unravelling in transit. Simples!

 

[The Wino]

Keep ours in a velcro fastened bag they are on special at lidl this week ultimate speed car boot organiser £3.99.saves messing up stuff next to it and easier than coiling

 

[jdk62]

Needs a major debate on hose pipes and the water regulations now.....

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[ebikejohn]

Needs a major debate on hose pipes and the water regulations now.....

Can't wait for that, saw a chap filling his tank with a green hose pipe the other day, my bet is that it wasn't food safe, I did speak to him about it - doctor says that they have got nearly all of it out and that I should be able to sit down again in a week or two.

 

[pappajohn]

So....arctic blue and yellow cable is only suitable as a temporary electric supply and not suitable for leisure purposes.
(As far as i was aware yellow indicates 110v)

And what is a hookup cable if it isnt a temporary supply.

I have seen yellow cables on building sites powering lights and small power for weeks on end, only unplugged at the end of the working day....if someone remembers that is.

 

[scotjimland]

(As far as i was aware yellow indicates 110v)

yes, that is generally the accepted rule John .

240/110 site yellow transformers have yellow sockets and extension cables.. but oddly enough I can't find any IEE regulation about flexible cable sheath colours.. it may exist and I just haven't found it

generally the voltage is identified by the plug and socket colour

http://www.langirele.com/htm/socket-plug.html
020–025 V 0050/60 Hz Purple
040–050 V 0050/60 Hz White
100–130 V 0050/60 Hz Yellow
200–250 V 0050/60 Hz Blue
380–480 V 0050/60 Hz Red
500–690 V 0050/60 Hz Black
- >60–500 Hz Green
None of the above Grey

Harmonised Cable Codes and Colours

http://myelectrical.com/notes/entryid/228/harmonised-cable-codes-and-colours

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[Gromett]

I have seen yellow cables on building sites powering lights and small power for weeks on end, only unplugged at the end of the working day....if someone remembers that is.

The yellow cables are usually connected to a centre tapped 110v transformer. In these the earth is centre tapped between live and Neutral so the 110v is actually 60v.
The transformer is also usually based on a split bobbin to give physical isolation from the mains side. Because of this they are very very safe.

My knowledge on this comes from my first job being at a transformer factory. We actually made these transformers and also the ones used by the U.S. military when operating in the UK.

 

[Gorse Hill]

Well.. I could make my own but we have one. So thanks . .
My challenge to point me at a correctly regulated one online still stands though.
After all it wasnt me who started quoting these standards ... or was it.

No, but it's you that doesn't understand them, good luck with whatever you use am not arsed because the one I have meets the requirements.
I only quoted the standards for those who didn't know, not the smart arse ones who thinks they know

 

[sdc77]

No, but it's you that doesn't understand them, good luck with whatever you use am not arsed because the one I have meets the requirements.
I only quoted the standards for those who didn't know, not the smart arse ones who thinks they know

I didn't know and your advice didn't help.. but thanks for trying.
(Not quite sure why you got all stroppy to be honest .. I just asked you to point me at a complete hook up cable which met your requirements and you couldnt)
Thanks for nothing.

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[John745]

In my experience you do get what you pay for, and have found the more expensive cables are more flexible. If you have the ability to make you own I would buy Arctic cable (as others have suggested above) and make one up, this cable is really flexible and comes in yellow as well as blue, possibly others ?

 

[Gromett]

I decided to try and find out the correct answer to this question for the benefit of @sdc77.

Just a few points. The 17th edition regs indicate a minimum requirement and does not cover the specification of the cables themselves. They only cover the electrical requirements not the mechanical requirements if memory serves.

A cable may fulfil the electrical specification but not the mechanical specification for an specific application. Standards have overlaps and gaps;

For instance BS 7671 (IEE Regs 17th edition) says;

The Regulations are intended to be applied to electrical installations generally but, in certain cases, they may need to be supplemented by the requirements or recommendations of other British Standards or by the requirements of the person ordering the work

The IEE regs specify that the cable should be a minimum of 2.5mm but doesn't mention any other standards the cable needs to meet.

You have to look at the specification that the cable is produced to to find out what if any restrictions or recommendations are made for the cable. For instance Arctic cable manufactured to BS 7919:2000 specification.
This states

The cables are not suitable for:
– outdoor use at standard voltages"

When choosing a cable you need to look at the specification and see if it is suitable. Because there is no specification directly aimed at hookup leads for Caravans and Motorhomes you need to check the cable itself is suitable for the task.

I have just spent an hour or so on this and I stand by my previous comments. Bearing in mind 10+ years ago when I did the original research my memory of this stuff was a lot better than it is now.

So my recommendation is. Use the tough inflexible cables where you are going to be on a hard surface or where it is possible for the cable to be run over. You can get away with the Arctic cable even though it isn't specced for the job if you are careful, for instance only use it on soft surface where it won't be impacted by hard or heavy objects and won't be run over. The outer sheath of Arctic cable is not tough enough to take much in the way of abuse.

While I was researching I did trip across an interesting chat on this subject at "The institution of Engineering and Technology"
http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=31451

Basically it looks like there is no cable suited. The tough orange cables are fine until you get to low temps, the arctic cables are fine at low temps but not suitable for outdoor use at regular voltages..

 

[Gromett]

PS: I will be digging out all my cables later to find out what specs they are.. You guys have got me interested in this one again.

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[Gorse Hill]

I didn't know and your advice didn't help.. but thanks for trying.
(Not quite sure why you got all stroppy to be honest .. I just asked you to point me at a complete hook up cable which met your requirements and you couldnt)
Thanks for nothing.

Didn't get stroppy, out in my van having a great time complete with my approved hook up cable which I bought from spinneys, and it's not Blue
Keep looking you will get there one day