low sulphur diesel .. is this the solution ?

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by lebesset, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    I think most of us are aware that the reduction of sulphur in diesel looks to have adverse effects on engine life and efficency ...big improvement in emissions though [ sulphur + water ...[ sulphuric ]acid rain
    if you are interested you might like to read here .....

    Freel2.com - View topic - 2-stroke oil and diesel
     
  2. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    its not new info .there is quite alot known about low sulpher diesel . its very much like the bio desel if ran on higher sulpher diesel for years the seals take in the aromatics from the fuel . it apears on low sulpher the aromatics leach out of the seals and harden and crack/leak/ there as been concern in the heavy goods world since before yr 2000, freight haulage association were not happy with it and made comments in their transport managers books back then. its like lots of so called green issues they make one thing better and cause problems somewhere else.more thought needed somewhere i think .
     
  3. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    that's the whole point alan
    there IS a problem , been coming for some years as we know , but it is only from 4th december 2007 that it has become compulsory
    but what have the vehicle manufacturers done about it ... not enough seems to be the answer ; they never admit to a problem anyway ...fiat 250's haven't got a reverse gear problem , have they
    the reality is that no vehicle manufacturer is going to stick it's neck out and say ..MY engines won't run correctly without an additive ...commercial suicide ; am I being cynical in saying that they won't object to selling us more spares in the form of pumps and injectors , more labour charges for their agents ? there have been some cheapo attempts by them to improve the matter a little , but nothing much

    or the oil companies could solve the problem ....could hit their profits a little so they won't ....it would only take one to do it and all would have do it ....but as it is a cartel that won't happen

    most people running light diesels don't know what is happening yet , but to me this idea looks like the answer in the short to medium term

    cost wise , not significant

    200 litres diesel at £1.......£200
    199 litres diesel +1 litre 2 stroke at £5 ....£204 ie £1.02/litre

    as you can see many people reckon they get an increase in fuel efficency , possible I suppose as you get a cleaner engine

    anyway , I am going to try it and , being the last of the big spenders , to hell with the £12 per annum it costs me
     
  4. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Hi Alan, Have been running my B series Cummins and my 2.8 Isuzu on 100% bio for many thousands of miles,with no detriment. In fact the local MOT tester always coments on how clean the engine burns. No emissions. Am now experimenting with black diesel and have got the mix down to 60-40,have now done 5000 miles with no problems and am going for 70-30 now.All this bunkum about bio damaging engins is complete nonsence IMO.
     
  5. 6pm Cowboy

    6pm Cowboy Read Only Funster

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    It will be interesting to see the final results, trouble is they could be 100.000 miles down the road :Smile:
     
  6. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    the way i have been told is,if the seals are replaced its ok to run it. if its run low sulpher diesel since new its not a problem either, as the seals wont have sucked up the aromatics from normal/high sulpher diesel. there is lots of reasons /things we can do adding oil etc some have been duing it with heatingoiln adding engine oil. diesel engine can take alot of abuse. we had an abbott self propelled gun here to play with for a while (tank)it would burn anything oil/paint petrol margarine etc but size or cc makes the differance. yes lots run different things .forget the oil companies as oil could run out they are in it for money ,not praise. hopefully there will be enough for me to drive my truck a little longer. i like the idea of hydrogen as fuel but will it ever be used?we have heard of splitting water and burning the hydrogen years ago or was it a lie?water injection was tried years ago now used again as a new idea. like lpg, was quite big in the 70,s then it died to come back as the way forward in the late 90,s almost like a new invention. i ran a beetle on lpg inthe 70,s by cutting off the fuel and guessing a fixed amount of gas to the carb it worked but very crudely. then found out about vacum operated gas valves then it worked fine.i dont worry as mine should run on the later fuels if not have to rebuild injectors n pump or buy new. spentmany hours playing with different fuels but cant be bothered any more . let someone else take over. the new kids on the block will work it out . cheers alan.
     
  7. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    there are always fancy ideas about , but the main point is that , like diesel oil , two stroke oil is specially designed TO BE BURNED IN YOUR ENGINE ; I have stripped a high mileage two stroke engine and it was clean as a whistle !

    so it can't do any harm ,question is , does it do any good

    and from what I hear from my old contacts on the manufacturing side of the industry they are well aware of the problem and looking for a cheap fix , teflon coatings , things like that ; seems to me that might put off the evil day for a bit , but that's all
     
  8. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    the problem is do we tryto look after the envioment or look after our pocket. i dont think low sulpher diesel is a problem in newer vehicles. putting oil i the diesel isnt good . as for enines i,ve stripped hundreds .petrol,, diesel, two stroke diesel (foden marine),two stroke petrol .but give me a flat four air cooled petrol lump i like them best. diesel dirty n horrible .i dont really think we have moved forward in engine tecnology for years. we make them go faster thats about all .my old a40 farina 1097 cc was very good on fuel. then in about 68 bosch brought out the bosch D system electonic fuel injection .brilliant system .power and economy. way before its time .used by vw saab merc . the kugleficher system was rubbish the british efforts were rubbish . even the 80,s digifant system only copied the d system but used smaller components. be nice if we could find a better system for transporting us and stuff around. wait beam me up scotty. no it doesnt work. have fun cheers alan.
     
  9. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    you must be nearly as old as me alan .....but 2 stroke oil is vastly improved from when us was lads ....no more polluting now than diesel , maybe less

    as you know the funny thing is that 2 stroke engines are bad polluters because they burn the fuel inefficiently , but diesel engines seem to burn it as well as they do diesel , hardly surprising as it is very similar in consistency

    have you been over and seen the rebuilt steam engine at the levant mine at st just ? , she steam at least twice a week
     
  10. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    i have seen it its great. i had shares in a foster steam engine for quite a while . one of my friends as about 14 working steam traction engines. he also had tha uk.s largest collection of steam engines for a while .he imported 72 from chile when the phosphate mines closed. i have been for a few year in discusion to bring back the two rollers trom tetouan but as yet the maroc govt keep stopping the transaction. my mothers cousin was a great friend of fred dibner and its a small world because myfriends uncle was alsogreat pals of his. george at one time owned the two steam engines in the filmblack beauty(think thats the right one).he also had the biggest car museum in cornwall for a while.
    i also have met the owners of the first steam engine in france they live near auterive just below toulouse. they have a special machine for making big cogs as used by steam machines etc.i think theirs is the only one of its kind in europe. now you got me started i,m going before i want to start restoring things ,not again. cheers alan.
     
  11. falcon

    falcon Read Only Funster

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    I found the thread on the freel2.com forum very informative. It struck a note as only a couple of days ago, my neighbour in Italy where I am at present, was adding about 10 litre bottles of vegetable cooking oil and he said it is to keep the engine clean. I thought it was more to do with the price of diesel in Italy which is about the same price as the UK(used to me about half a few years back). I suspect it is probably illegal anyway but that probably does not matter here anyway. My question is; does vegetable cooking oil from the supermarket equate to bio-diesel in effect as the cleaned up fish and chip oil that is used by Asda and the like for their lorries? If so what proportion should be added and is it legal in the UK as no duty is paid on that.

    Going back to the 2T oil, how would that be different from the bio-diesel above or the supermarket cooking oil that my neighbour was using? He swore it was good for the engine but he is a businessman and i am very sceptic on this matter.
     
  12. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    SVO or streight veg oil is NOT the same as Bio. But it is possible to run up to 50-50 with diesel. If you are contemplating an alternative to diesel I would sugest you go down the route of Bio. Yes it is legal to produce 2500lts per year per person per houshold for your own consuption without paying duty.If you buy in the bio you must pay duty.:Wink:
     
  13. falcon

    falcon Read Only Funster

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    Ok, so if I read you right, SVO could be used 50/50. Any known problems with that?
    Is Bio better and how is it produced at home to avoid the duty legally? Is Bio all the same wherever you get it from or are there grades as normal diesel etc?

    Is the 2T a better alternative or is one as good as the other? I am totally lost with engines etc. Give me a satellite dish anytime!:)
     
  14. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    First you must do some research on your particular engine.Use internet. Diesel Bob is very good for info, goto the bio page.Kits are available on ebay to make you own at home, but to be honest its not rocket science. Anyone can make one from houshold bits and pieces and the local plumbers merchant. There are companys who are now selling the ready made stuff qhite legaly now, again an internet search will give your local suplier. Hope this is some help. Dave.
     
  15. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    well , you are correct to be sceptical falcon ; vegetable oil will assist neither in the cleanliness of the engine nor in the reduction of noise levels
    however if it is cheaper ..you did say the italian was a businessman... it should run fine ;
    I tried a 50% mixture ..reclaimed chip oil ..in my fiat 2.8idTD engine and it ran fine , no change in performance or consumption that I could detect [ I wouldn't try it in a jtd engine personally , and will avoid ever having a jtd if I can , fine if in regular use but how many motorhomes run daily? ]

    2T ,on the other hand [ thanks for the abbreviation , I had forgotten it ] , is formulated to have the cleaning effect ; but it is the lubricating qualities that I seek in view of the lack of sulphur to do the job ... if I find the lowering of noise level or the improved fuel consumption that some report I shall regard that as a bonus

    perhaps I should add that this subject is close to my heart ...for 25 years I ran on lpg
    there is an analogous problem there in that [ like modern petrol ] there is no lead in lpg ;
    so if you had a vehicle with cheap valves/seats , they wore away due to a lack of the lead coating thereon ;temperature is a little higher than petrol which exacerbates the problem ..here again an additive is available ...perhaps it is really 2T !:BigGrin:
     
  16. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi lebesset , i ran vw aircooedstuff quite happiky on lpg. starting as well. the air cooled had hard sintered valve seats and bronze valve guides. i think it was one of the ideal engines for lpg.i also succesfully ran a passat engine on it as well no probs. the trouble was garages stopped selling it and in the end there was only 1 place to get it round here, about 15ml away .thats when i went the lpg pump way and started filling my own tank from bottles. it became not worth the bother.i have tried many other options if you want a short sprint of speed av gas makes it move but does run hot. i believe its still run on some of the street legal dragsters when on the strip. must say i like good old four star complete with lead. as for the sulpher do i really care?not really . i have an obsession with motors so am not too worried about the enviroment. have fun cheers alan.
    ps. i also used to build 1835 big bore engines for local airplanes,there were a few round here at one time ,luton minors , and our trago flier built for our local entreponaire. the strt of bodmin air field if memory is right.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2009
  17. dikyenfo

    dikyenfo Read Only Funster

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    Having lost the pump and injectors on my Iveco to low lub. I now use the commercial boys mixer. See 123-reg | Domain names | Domain name registration diesels .com for the details. Have used this from new in the Fiat and look forward to trying the 2T mix to compare prices. However the United stuff has other advantages as well so maybe a bit of both? I believe the Continental mix of bio. diesel being of higher levels of veggie does give adequate levels of lubrication.
     
  18. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    i always strain the wasts oil from engine oil changes n mix that into the diesel. saves wasting it. seems to be ok done it for years. trucks do it automaticaly now on some .
     
  19. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    well you said you don't care much about the environment alan
    hope you don't run into a pollution check , could prove EXTREMELY expensive

    dikyenfro ...afraid veggie doesn't improve the lubrication a bit ; if you think about 2T it's only purpose is lubrication
     
  20. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Sump oil dosnt polute any more than diesel does. Everyone thinks that if you put oil into diesel it will smoke just like a worn engine does. That is NOT the case as it is being injected into the engine. Oil, Deisel, Hydrolic flued, Chip fat, etc. Will all burn in the diesel engine. When it was invented it was designed to run on peanut oil. In 20-30 years time there will be no diesel or petrol only for the powers that be so we HAVE to find an alternative.:Eeek:
     
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