Low Emission Zone.

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Risky R, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. Risky R

    Risky R Read Only Funster

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    Hi all
    As many of you are aware, this is a huge problem facing many private individuals and businesses large and small.
    It is riddled with serious mistakes by TFL and as you may of already found out when trying to deal with these people it can be very frustrating.

    I have been dealing with this for nearly 5 years and I have met with Ken livingstone, Boris, TFL and spoken to a wide audience within the industry I work.
    Because of my commitment to resolve the many issues that the LEZ brings with it, I have become pretty much clued up on all things LEZ.

    On a personal note I feel your pain. Not only have I lost my 1st recovery truck to this fiasco I am just about to lose a much loved perfect condition VW LT van.

    I have recently been in talks at TFL and our representatives are in Westminster, I assure you I am talking with the right people...more to the point they are now seeking my advice.

    I am now dealing with ITV and they have just realised what the extent to which some information that I have means...that's another story and it involves YOU guys.

    Below is a video that was quickly put on You Tube regarding the LEZ and another issue. This is what I organised for starters with another chap.

    Take a peek and I look forward to your comments. The LEZ is wrong, it is criminal and it is ill thought out.
    Enjoy the tip of an iceburg.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWtTIQyv6UA[/ame]


    This Protest took place Friday 18th November, M25 junction 23 around to Clackett Lane. We had the full support of Police and they was there to do lane closures alongside the Highways agency. We are fully supported in our actions and we are concerned that the LEZ will remove most of Londons recovery trucks. TFL refuse to listen and we are now going to put them in their place.
    I have political support and the facts and figures must be 200% correct. I've done the homework, TFL have not, now they shall pay....literally!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  2. Risky R

    Risky R Read Only Funster

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    Where you guys may fit in.

    This is a filter that caught fire as a result of a catastrophic regeneration. The manufacturer was keen for me to recover the Transit Camper Van back to them so as to see why it caught fire. It was fitted near to the gas cylinders.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Red Sonja

    Red Sonja Funster

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    I am affected by the LEZ living within 250 metres of the boundary. I have decided not to have the filter fitted and to store my van instead. Looking at those photos makes my choice easier.

    We have a 2004 Hymer 614 and it will never come back home after January 3rd.

    Mavis one of the members on here has been campaigning on the LEZ ever since it was mooted and is quite well know to both Ken Livingstone and Boris (and many others).

    Looking forward to see what you can make happen.

    Sonja
     
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  4. Risky R

    Risky R Read Only Funster

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    I am working with a mayoral candidate and he was told in a FOI request that it will not be enforced in a draconian manner. I feel that you would be entitled to keep your vehicle in a safe storage place if that place was "home"...my guess is that you would not face any fines. I'll post the relevant information and get a reply from Mayor Johnsons office.
     
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  5. ROB1CHELSEA1

    ROB1CHELSEA1 Funster

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    We have just paid £3000 for the new filter to be fitted to our motorhome and then phoned the only company i could find that makes and fits a security device to prevent it from being stolen, i was quoted £145 to have this fitted so told the company to go ahead with the job, he sent a guy down to fit it but i then received a phone call from the company telling me he had not seen one that size so was unable to fit it, he said he would look into it and try to adapt to the situation that he now faces.
    Im quite worried about this since i have heard the filter is easy to cut off and is worth £800 melted down.:thumbdown:
     
  6. darklord

    darklord Read Only Funster

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    Unfortunatley, once again the recovery industry is way behind professional haulage on these matters. When the LEZ was muted, companies that it affected, like er' ALL of the major supermarket chains, parcel firms, etc etc etc, looked at the options. With their VAST lobbying powers and legal support, they decided to use compliant vehicles.
    Much too late, and as with the fuel price demo's etc, some elements think that driving around the M25 is going to have an affect,...it never has and never will, apart from a bit of self promotion.

    The industry also looked at the "bolt on" filters etc, from companies like Eminox, and in the main, decided that the CONTINUAL additional cost of these things could not be justified, so again, it was another prod for using compliant vehicles. Some companies, are offering a "hub" service, whereby long distance trucks can offload onto smaller compliant vehicles for the last leg into the city, I see that doing well over time.
    I have sympathy with the private individuals like MH owners. landrover owners, horsebox users, they would be better parking outside of the LEZ......but five years into the fight, if you aint won yet, you aint gonna.


    PS, the company I worked for in Rainham Essex ,...JUST inside the LEZ, had to replace their whole fleet of six specialist tankers,....I am sure that if driving around the M25 could have prevented that, we would have all done it in a flash.
     
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  7. Risky R

    Risky R Read Only Funster

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    The system you are talking of is for standard sizes usually, Cat guard is one make I believe? A company that fits filters in Croydon recently done one on a motorhome, it was nicked within 24 hours.
    Be aware that this is a modification to your vehicle and as such the insurance must be notified. It will also "add" value to your vehicle thus making it more of a case to ensure that the cost of a stolen filter and any relevant damage is covered.
    Be aware that the age of your vehicle will now make you a target for thieves. They are aware of what must be fitted and any vehicle of a certain age will have a costly filter underneath. In light of scrap metal prices this is now a real problem to be aware of.
     
  8. Red Sonja

    Red Sonja Funster

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    I for one am not going to take the risk. I will be paying £10 a week for secure storage luckily only 7 miles away. Forgot to add Good Luck and you do have my support as I know this will put a lot of people out of business in the New Year.

    Sonja
     
  9. ROB1CHELSEA1

    ROB1CHELSEA1 Funster

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    Cat guard were the company that i was dealing with:Sad:
     
  10. Risky R

    Risky R Read Only Funster

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    Sorry about delay...I got blocked from posting etc, read only member came up and I was asked to pay £10 subs...OK, not a lot but with respect I am really trying to save people from possible loss of vehicles from Fire, theft and indeed even secure an exemption from fitting filters costing Thousands££s....but i'll live with the £10 cost and should I save anyone a few bob then maybe they will buy me a pint?
    The rest of my time/efforts and experience guys is TOTALLY FREE:thumb:

    Phil.
     
  11. Risky R

    Risky R Read Only Funster

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    Hi Darklord

    The recovery association has been at the forefront of talks with TFL at the consultation stages alongside the RHA. Nikki King OBE, CEO of Isuzu trucks and chair of RHA recovery has stood and fought hard in Westminster but TFL failed to listen to them and indeed many other industry bodies.
    Recovery associations have also been in numerous meetings at TFL with Samantha Kennedy under the past and present mayoral leadership, both have failed to respond in regards to what the LEZ will do to so many businesses and private individuals.
    On the 18th October I was also at TFL with a representative from E.R.R.I, they are raising concerns from the likes of the A.A, RAC, Green Flag, and Mondial Assistance amongst others including motor manufacturers.
    As expected it was the standard sympathetic ear but little action.
    To that effect association members handed letters in at City Hall on the 26th October direct to Boris again raising industry concerns.

    With respect to the failure of protest, we feel that given the present financial climate and the bad timing of this added financial burdon, and of course the failure of TFL to see what will soon hit London, we faced little choice.
    It is also now recorded for possible inclusion with media that are looking at a much bigger picture. That issue is currently under research by the reporters.

    Many large companies were in a position to move non compliant vehicles out of london and bring in newer trucks. Unfortunately many of our operators are based within London so do not have that luxury. Of course not all vehicles breakdown inside London. Many are recovered by Non Compliant trucks outside the zone but upon reaching the LEZ they are faced with problems.
    Many of this forum are no doubt in similar positions, like +75,000 others.

    The hub service sounds great but that leads to more vehicles on the road with increased congestion and emissions.
    It is indeed unfair on many but that is sometimes the way things go. The administration errors from TFL are huge and those alone must be corrected.

    The trouble is when facing the likes of City Hall and indeed TFL it becomes a very frustrating matter. What to many is clearly wrong seems to be no issue to these individuals. Having sat in front of their technical manager recently and tied him up in knots, it is easy to see just why the scheme is such a failure.
    On Wednesday I was contacted by another manager asking me a few questions....sums it up really. He will amend the errors their end in due course. Great huh!!

    After 5 years every thing that was predicted has happened and will continue to do so. Prior to this latest phase nobody other than truckers etc were hit. TFL has now sent many thousands of people previously unaffected by the LEZ letters and as expected people are now awakening....well now they are seeing what has caused many within industry to close shop over, it is suddenly of interest to these people...funny that, i said it would be.

    As for winning it's not exactly that, it's about fair play and getting facts right. The hidden flaws in the LEZ are now rearing their head..as expected, and shortly the proverbial shall hit the fan.

    Regarding the company you worked for replacing their trucks, that is what F.Dicksons done back in 07. Despite begging Ken Livingstone to look at their case it was ignored. Fitting filters and buying newer trucks saved them back then but this time around after 101 years in business, F. Dickson closed with loss of all jobs (20) as a direct result of the LEZ.
     
  12. Risky R

    Risky R Read Only Funster

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    Important advice to those that have vehicles already fitted with Particulate filters that meet Euro 3 standards.

    If you have retrofitted your vehicle to comply with the LEZ then you DO NOT NEED TO MEET EURO IV STANDARDS

    This only affects heavier vehicles over 3.5 tonnes. As it stands at the moment TFL are informing owners to meet Euro 4 levels. If you have already fitted a filter then that information issued by TFL is WRONG.

    I have a letter from City Hall and the then Mayor Ken Livingstone that supports what I am saying.It was a reply on official paper and signed by Ken personally. It went to my MP Tom Brake as a reply to my questions back in 2007. TFL and Boris are not correct. This is one of the issues that ITV are looking into and of course the implications are huge....to TFL.
    COMPENSATION....If you sold a van which met the above criteria or fitted a Euro 4 filter then you was mis informed.

    Now that bit of FREE information must be worth a pint?
     
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  13. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    Between 2007 and 2009 I contacted TfL, Ken Livingstone & Boris Johnson (plus had a fair bit of correspondence with Mavis, who was mentioned earlier) because I thought it was really unfair to penalise private individuals who had bought their motorhomes in good faith, before the LEZ was even thought of. I argued, unsuccessfully, for exemption for London residents whilst they still owned their existing vehicles, an exemption which would not have extended to anyone buying a non-compliant vehicle after the LEZ announcement.

    Having said that, I also look at the LEZ in general from another angle. As an asthmatic I have suffered over the years from the particulates emitted by certain diesel vehicles, not just in London but in other heavy traffic areas. I welcome, therefore, general efforts to reduce particulates. I would also welcome measures to reduce pollution from petrol engines and aviation as well but that is another matter :Smile:

    I still hold the opinion that there should be an exemption for private individuals but as for businesses, they have had 5 years notice of the changes which take effect in January 2012, time enough to prepare.
     
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  14. Risky R

    Risky R Read Only Funster

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    Your comments are fair regarding the exemption to those already owners of non compliant vehicles...makes perfect sense. If you sell and upgrade then you know what you have to comply with but to put owners of vehicles that they have had for many years is simply wrong considering the use and mileage in London.
    I have a friend that bought a Transit van in complete faith that it was compliant..He checked and double checked the TFL website to confirm before he bought it. After purchasing the van he registered it in his name..legal requirement, suddenly it came back as NON COMPLIANT. Reason from TFL= "change of owner"...that's just wrong!!

    We are in support of cleaner air and we applaud the attempts to achieve that goal, but as stated by Brian Paddick, and other experts from consultations and reports, a 0.3% improvement is simply not worth the cost over benefit.
    The filters would be great if they worked, they cannot in the LEZ due to various issues. Not only that but they can increase NOx as a result of catalytic regeneration, a fact backed up in reports done for MAQS.
    Filters costing £5000 with the latest technology are issued with a sticker stating operating requirements...see below.

    [​IMG]

    We have suggested that cleaner fuels such as those that increase MPG and lower emissions be sold on forecourts at a lower price. Remove the cheaper diesel full stop and sell only the best fuel....ACROSS BRITAIN. The effect would lower emissions everywhere rather than just London. Asthma is not just confined to London.
    Petrol engine are emitting more CO2 as a result of 20mph zones and stop start urban driving. Road humps are also adding to the increase in CO2. Report done by the A.A at a testing ground supports all this.
    The London Ambulance service has also reported in a letter to TFL that each day people die as a result of emergency vehicles delayed by traffic calming measures. To avoid damaging ambulances they go AROUND the road humps, this loses vital seconds and minutes...lives are lost daily. FACT.

    BAA at Heathrow are in broad support of lower emissions but are concerned of the rise in NOx from aftermarket abatement devices.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2011
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  15. jonandshell

    jonandshell Funster

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    We have a Euro 4 spec Transit, so are OK for a visit to a CC site in London.

    Can't wait to pollute the air with our Webasto diesel heater!!!!!

    UP YOURS BORIS!:BigGrin::BigGrin:
     
  16. Risky R

    Risky R Read Only Funster

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    That's just fine, you'll fit in well amongst all the NON COMPLIANT diesel plant being used on the Olympic development site despite the promise that ALL plant and machinery would be COMPLIANT...lord Coe is not happy, Boris is not happy either.... Double standards!!:Eeek:
     
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  17. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    On the subject of plant, one of my pet hates is the rash of artificial ice skating rinks that spring up every winter. I can't go anywhere near many of them for fear of an asthma attack.
     
  18. Risky R

    Risky R Read Only Funster

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    Really...does that cause an attack too? Is that from the generators that are used to power the ice making machines etc?

    Take also into account that Showman's trucks, funfairs, are eligable for a 100% discount, I'd steer clear of them too. See pics.

    A "compliant" specialist showman truck.

    [​IMG]

    The "specialist" generating equipment as prescribed by TFL to make them eligable for the discount!

    [​IMG]

    Should've seen the fumes inside and the soot all over the the place...nice!!

    [​IMG]
     
  19. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    Any diesel engine which throws out particulates is one which I avoid.
     
  20. estcres

    estcres Read Only Funster

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    The "specialist" generating equipment as prescribed by TFL to make them eligable for the discount!

    I've got a generator in my Motorhome for use when I am Wild Camping, (specialist equipment).

    Does that make me eligable for a 100% discount or am I being discriminated against?
     
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