lithium battery

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by davieboy, Oct 16, 2014.

  1. davieboy

    davieboy Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    banbury
    Looking around the show at the nec and came across this at the Road Pro stand, looked good until I saw the price £1,669.00. They had a show discount price £200 lower. Like the fact thats its light weight and should last longer (13kg for a 100ah)A bit of poking around on internet finds the same style at £619, so how the hell can they justify that price
    https://www.roadpro.co.uk/retail/product_list.aspx?prod=Lithium+(LiFeP04)+Batteries
    and the Battery Masters version
    http://www.batterymasters.co.uk/Pro...j4PUp5LjhPzg6g2RJNEhwOLk1VM4TTmdXYaAsek8P8HAQ
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. CazPaul

    CazPaul Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    166
    Location:
    Durham
    I can see these really catching on in a few months/years when the price comes down.

    What does it mean though in the second link, comes with its own charger, can't you just connect them to your own van charger as a normal battery?

    Paul.
     
  3. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,472
    Likes Received:
    16,932
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    Most certainly not.
    lithium/lithium ion have a completely different charge method in the same way flooded lead/acid and gell/glass mat batteries have to be charged differently.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,458
    Likes Received:
    8,598
    Location:
    Ilfracombe, Devon
    £600 od for 100 amp/hr battery is bad enough. Welcome to rip off Britain
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. SMB

    SMB Funster

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    588
    Location:
    north shields
    Just bought new Banner batteries for my MH so by the time they are ready to be replaced I hope these will have gone down in price significantly, they sound great in terms of...everything
     
  6. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,472
    Likes Received:
    16,932
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    Simple Guidelines for Charging Lithium-based Batteries
    • A portable device should be turned off while charging. This allows the battery to reach the threshold voltage unhindered and reflects the correct saturation current responsible to terminate the charge. A parasitic load confuses the charger.
    • Charge at a moderate temperature. Do not charge below freezing.
    • Lithium-ion does not need to be fully charged; a partial charge is better.
    • Chargers use different methods for “ready” indication. The light signal may not always indicate a full charge.
    • Discontinue using charger and/or battery if the battery gets excessively warm.
    • Before prolonged storage, apply some charge to bring the pack to about half charge.
    • Over-discharged batteries can be “boosted” to life again. Discard pack if the voltage does not rise to a normal level within a minute while on boost.

    Almost every type of battery neds a specific type of charger.

    Looking at the data above, a li-ion battery would not be good for leisure uses......as per bullet point #1 above.

    Overcharging will kill the battery dead.
    If overcharged there is a very real danger of the battery exploding.
     
  7. davieboy

    davieboy Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    banbury
    So looking at point 1, why are Road Pro trying to flog them to us
     
  8. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    26,447
    Likes Received:
    25,130
    Location:
    Macclesfield
    Profit.
     
  9. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,472
    Likes Received:
    16,932
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    Probably because folks expect them to be good from a reputable dealer.

    Why do folks buy the latest iphone6 at £600 or £700 when most smart phones do almost the same things at less than half the price.....must have and gullibility.
     
  10. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,141
    Likes Received:
    16,395
    Location:
    Liverpool.
    I have 2 scooters with lithium batteries. One of the battery packs will not hold a charge, I have been quoted £350 to replace. Headless to say am not bothering. PJ is correct, they do have a special charger with a button to fully discharge before charging. Unfortunately am having no luck in revitalising the dud.
     
  11. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,472
    Likes Received:
    16,932
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    Yes that is cheaper.......but its only 20ah.
     
  12. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,223
    Likes Received:
    9,604
    Location:
    Dorset
    with the majority of battery packs, only the outer casing is different and often conceals a standard or series of battery cells inside. if your dud battery wont work, nothing lost taking it apart. plenty of places to buy Li-Ion cells cheaper and with a bit of soldering would be good as new
     
  13. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,141
    Likes Received:
    16,395
    Location:
    Liverpool.
    I took the pack to a friend who runs a battery business in Liverpool. He stripped the pack down and at first was of the opinion that he could do as you say. When he contacted his supplier he hit a brick wall. This guy used to be fairly high up at Lucas batteries and when made redundant started on his own. I gave up at that point.
     
  14. JimboT

    JimboT Funster

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Welwyn Garden City
    We have been using Lipo Life and li- Ion batteries in the radio controlled industry for the last 5 years and yes they are lighter more power powerful and they can deliver motor power.
    But they can be unstable when charging (just look at F1 cars !) if they drop below a voltage they wont recharge.
    The life is not as great as lead acid (your mobile phone batteries drop off after 12 months) don't last as long.
    To get 12v you will have four 3.7v batteries and the charger will have to monitor these and keep them in balance splitting charge.
    In the radio control world we charge these in fire bags or pockets.
    Would i have one on charge in my motorhome no chance!(might have 10 packs in my fire bag in my garage)
    Jim
     
  15. Jaws

    Jaws Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    18,347
    Likes Received:
    21,705
    Location:
    Narrfoook
    Almost daily I come across similar with motorcycle batteries.
    There are VERY few bikes with charging circuits suitable for gel type batteries, yet when folk go to buy a battery they are told by the retailer that a gel battery is an upgrade and far better..
    Charging circuit damage and early battery failure results.
    Halfrauds sales people are notorious for this..

    As Brian said.. Profit.. no other reason ( apart from absolute ignorance on the part of the sales people )
     
  16. jockaneezer

    jockaneezer Funster

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,593
    Likes Received:
    3,068
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Was talking to a mobility scooter dealer recently and he was bemoaning the fact that inevitably they will move more and more to lithium technology. OK lead acids are heavy but they are pretty forgiving if looked after. Like Jimbo said I wouldn't have one in my camper ( except for my tablet, 2 phones, electric bikes and my kindle :LOL: )
     
  17. tonyidle

    tonyidle Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Location:
    Kendal, Cumbria
    It may be that we're not comparing like-for-like: the descriptions may not tell the whole story. It is entirely possible that the charger is built into the Roadpro version. It would accept the input from the van charger and control it correctly for the LiPo battery. It would also be possible, when the battery is on charge, to allow the van domestics to run from the van's own charger whilst keeping the LiPo battery separate and still charging it from the van's charger.

    LiPo batteries used for RC models are basic batteries and contain no smart electronics to do essential cell balancing (to keep weight to a minimum) and are usually charged very quickly. Controlling the charge relies heavily on the user understanding the requirements. Electric cycle batteries (for example) have complex control and balancing electronics built into the battery case and whilst the charger is designed for LiPo it can be less clever than might be assumed.

    RoadPro (I'm not and never have been a customer) have a very good reputation based on the fact that their products are designed specifically for MH & caravan unique requirements. I would be surprised if the same didn't apply to their LiPo batteries.

    And the price scares me too - it's well on the way to the price of a fuel cell. :Eeek:
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...

Share This Page