LEZ (2 Viewers)

[slobadoberbob]

I can see us having this debate in the coming year

Jim, I can see us and others having this debate over the coming year at various shows, over the beer and the BBQ.

But I am not going to try Chris's idea of the room size and emissions... all motorhomes can kill you in many ways.

Bob:Sad:

 

[chrisgreen]

Plenty of people would like to see the results of that experiment.

i dont mind trying it as long as bob goes first,as i aint got a v10
and i promise i will keep up my end of the deal

 

[slobadoberbob]

on your bike Chris

i dont mind trying it as long as bob goes first,as i aint got a v10
and i promise i will keep up my end of the deal

On your bike Chirs

Bob:Blush:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wildman]

It is the emissions from thousands of aircraft a day that fly into and out of the three main airports that are to blame not the cars, end of story.

 

[chatter]

It is the emissions from thousands of aircraft a day that fly into and out of the three main airports that are to blame not the cars, end of story.

good and valid point Roger

 

[Jim]

It is the emissions from thousands of aircraft a day that fly into and out of the three main airports that are to blame not the cars, end of story.

Flying on tax free fuel too:Angry:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[olley]

Have just got the flyer for the motorhome show at Excel in february, where there is camping on site. Bet a lot of unsuspecting provincials will get done if they come in their vans!

Camping has been cancelled, the 3C's and whoever couldn't reach an agreement.

Ian

 

[pappajohn]

I did question this sometime back John and was informed it applies to petrol engines as well, but as most petrol engines do not throw out the same amount of carbon or soot then it is unlikely to effect them, as 99% of commercials are now diesel.

I run my own RV through the system a while back and it came back as OK. Just seems to be the smelly, old soot throwing out vehicles they want out of the capital... it is a regret that includes motor homes as well as breakdown trucks and horse boxes. ...

But there was plenty of notice given and people have had time to deal with the issue, but as usual there are some that just ignored the law until it was at a point of having to pay a fine... then they are up in arms.... I would not say I would not be if in the same boat, however as I have a petrol vehicle with lower carbon emissions than most modern diesel van conversions I feel happy with the situation... the only problem I have is each time I go for an MOT I spend ages with my foot on the throttle trying to hold the rev's to get a readying .. it is so low they cannot get one. .. that is a modern V10 6.8 lt petrol engine for you.

Bob

well Bob, after reading your comment i did have to check for myself oh:

 

[pappajohn]

It is the emissions from thousands of aircraft a day that fly into and out of the three main airports that are to blame not the cars, end of story.

Jet engines run on kerosene (parafin).....1 gallon of kerosene produces around 1 gallon of water vapour and not much else unless the engine is buggered, not likely on a passenger jet

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

regarding Bob's comment on dirty engines and soot.

about time Boris started to fine the owners of the old, dirty, solid carbon fuelled steam engines plying in and out of London's rail stations.

one coal engine will throw out more soot in one journey through London than any diesel engine will in a whole year

 

[Jim]

Jet engines run on kerosene (parafin).....1 gallon of kerosene produces around 1 gallon of water vapour and not much else unless the engine is buggered, not likely on a passenger jet

And how much CO2

 

[pappajohn]

And how much CO2

CO2 released from a Boeing 777 equates to around 80% of fuel burnt Jim, but the LEZ isnt so much about CO2 as it is carbon particulates....soot to you and me.....which is why petrol engines are excluded and my comment re: water vapour and not much else.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[scotjimland]

And how much CO2

also ... (from petrol)

Carbon Monoxide
Nitrogen dioxide
Sulphur dioxide
Benzene
Formaldehyde
Polycyclic hydrocarbons
Lead

 

[pappajohn]

lead Jim....surely not !

thought the powers that be abolished lead in petrol.

 

[scotjimland]

lead Jim....surely not !

thought the powers that be abolished lead in petrol.

they stopped adding it as an anti-knock agent but it is still present in emissions ..

they now add benzine as a replacement for lead .. oh:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pappajohn]

they stopped adding it as an anti-knock agent but it is still present in emissions ..

they now add benzine as a replacement for lead .. oh:

typical gov thinking oh:.....so if the lead don't get you the carcinogenic benzene will

 

[scotjimland]

typical gov thinking oh:.....so if the lead don't get you the carcinogenic benzene will

that about sums it up... the three wise monkey approach ..

 

[JockandRita]

typical gov thinking oh:.....so if the lead don't get you the carcinogenic benzene will

And apparently, every time someone fills up with unleaded, they are breathing in the equivalent of an "annual safe intake" of Benzine fumes.

As an Asthmatic, I'll stick with my diesel thanks.

Cheers,

Jock.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Reallyretired]

Well my MH is compliant, not that it matters as wild horses would be needed to drag me into London and the LEZ doesn't apply to them

 

[ourcampersbeentrashed]

But there was plenty of notice given and people have had time to deal with the issue, but as usual there are some that just ignored the law until it was at a point of having to pay a fine... then they are up in arms.... I would not say I would not be if in the same boat,
Bob

I can understand where you are coming from but to a certain extent I disagree that sufficient notice was given Bob.

We received an official letter telling us our vehicle would not be compliant only a few months ago and as we are not on a high income that did not give us sufficient time to save to get the necessary alterations done to make the vehicle compliant (albeit to spend 2-3k on a motorhome as old as ours would not be sensible even if we had the money)

The LEZ compliancy check website originally showed that it didnt apply to our registration number. The site then showed us as compliant and then as non compliant from January 2012.

I found it very confusing and it took ages for VOSA to be able to supply people with details of how to make vehicles complaint too dependent on the vehicle.

If we had not been members of motorhome fun we wouldnt have known about it until much later.

Yes it is called carbon and soot.. even if it was used within the LEZ it would still deposit the mess into the air... If you have ever been to LA in the USA you would know what I mean, hence they have such high controls now... I cannot say it would be like the pea soup fogs of the early 60's but the amount being discharged by older vehicles would not help anyone with breathing problems. ... it is a fact of life, regardless how well your vehicles body and in side may have lasted the engine will be very old and innefficiant and pollutant by todays standards

As time goes on I suspect all the country will have to meet these standards and it will become a test in it's own rights like the smog test in LA.

Bob

If our vehicle was chucking out smoke etc we would understand however it meets the mot regulations for emissions.

As for carbon and soot, here in London many are residents are reverting back to coal and wood open fires due to the price of fuel

regarding Bob's comment on dirty engines and soot.

about time Boris started to fine the owners of the old, dirty, solid carbon fuelled steam engines plying in and out of London's rail stations.

one coal engine will throw out more soot in one journey through London than any diesel engine will in a whole year

Agree completely and I heard something about council dustcarts being exempt dont know whether thats true or not and theres loads of those in London

As for the North London Waste Incinerator not too far from us, you want to see what that chucks out.

And as a final rant or comment - we changed from petrol to diesel when our motorhome was trashed because the government were pushing diesel as being cleaner. I just wonder whether that was a deliberate government ploy?????

 

[wander]

Advice please

London Low Emissions Zone – Your Advice Please
Having lived in Spain for the last five years and been out of London for nearly twenty years I’ve only just realised that the LEZ extends beyond the Congestion Charge Zone and out into the suburbs including Croydon where my sister lives and who we intent to visit in June of this year.
Having read this thread and looked at the LEZ gov website I am more than a little confused as to how or if this will affect me with a foreign registered vehicle.
We have a Spanish registered 2005 motorhome with a Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD engine and a weight rating of 3,400kgs which is just under what appears to be a critical reference point on one page of the gov website but another page refers to motorhomes between 2.5 and 3.5 tonnes.
I’d be very grateful if someone could advise if my vehicle is exempt and can travel freely in the zone or if I will have to pay the £100 per day charge. Also if this charge is per day or is it only when one passes a camera. For instance if I go in, stay for five days and then leave am I charged for each day - £500 or just the twice -£200. We’d obviously want to avoid paying any charges if possible and may have to consider finding a motorhome storage place outside of the zone and travelling in by public transport if we are not exempt.
Also are there any other cities or towns across the UK that I need to avoid or is London the only one at the moment that has this in force.
I’d be grateful if anyone can provide the definitive answer.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[johnp10]

Personally I hope this new (and stupid) restriction is the cause of the London economy dying on its feet.

Yep.
It's counter productive.

All road vehicles are manufactured to EU agreed and enforced requirements.
Who the hell are the London Boroughs Kremlin to decide they require further limits?

Many road haulage companies have stopped running to / from London because of what they see as illegal (LEZ /London Boroughs etc) Charges.
I know of several companies in my area who wont go there at any price, even if LEZ costs are included in the price, as they still see it as a rip off.
I cant be convinced it's about the environment, its about taxation dressed up as an environmental benefit.
The sooner all freight traffic in and out of the capital either stops or becomes too prohibitive in price to be viable, the better.
That situation may wake up the London Politburo to the fact that folk other than Londoners who need / choose to visit the City may in the end choose not to do so.
Major effect on the City's income.
Unfortunately residents would suffer even higher prices etc., but that may bring pressure to bear. Politicians are residents.
In the UK we tend to roll over when politicians make decisions that cost us. Most of us have the facility to vote with our feet, in this case keep out of the place altogether and spend elsewhere.

 

[GJH]

London Low Emissions Zone – Your Advice Please
Having lived in Spain for the last five years and been out of London for nearly twenty years I’ve only just realised that the LEZ extends beyond the Congestion Charge Zone and out into the suburbs including Croydon where my sister lives and who we intent to visit in June of this year.
Having read this thread and looked at the LEZ gov website I am more than a little confused as to how or if this will affect me with a foreign registered vehicle.
We have a Spanish registered 2005 motorhome with a Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD engine and a weight rating of 3,400kgs which is just under what appears to be a critical reference point on one page of the gov website but another page refers to motorhomes between 2.5 and 3.5 tonnes.
I’d be very grateful if someone could advise if my vehicle is exempt and can travel freely in the zone or if I will have to pay the £100 per day charge. Also if this charge is per day or is it only when one passes a camera. For instance if I go in, stay for five days and then leave am I charged for each day - £500 or just the twice -£200. We’d obviously want to avoid paying any charges if possible and may have to consider finding a motorhome storage place outside of the zone and travelling in by public transport if we are not exempt.
Also are there any other cities or towns across the UK that I need to avoid or is London the only one at the moment that has this in force.
I’d be grateful if anyone can provide the definitive answer.

Our van is also a Fiat Ducato with the 2.8 JTD engine. It was first registered in May 2003 and is compliant (I just checked again to make sure) so presumably your younger van will be OK.

I notice that the facility to check compliance by Vehicle Registration Mark now has options to check foreign registered vehicles (including Spain) as well as UK registered ones so you may be able to check on-line Link Removed.

At the moment London is the only UK city which has a LEZ.

 

[tofo]

Yep.
It's counter productive.

All road vehicles are manufactured to EU agreed and enforced requirements.
Who the hell are the London Boroughs Kremlin to decide they require further limits?

Many road haulage companies have stopped running to / from London because of what they see as illegal (LEZ /London Boroughs etc) Charges.
I know of several companies in my area who wont go there at any price, even if LEZ costs are included in the price, as they still see it as a rip off.
I cant be convinced it's about the environment, its about taxation dressed up as an environmental benefit.
The sooner all freight traffic in and out of the capital either stops or becomes too prohibitive in price to be viable, the better.
That situation may wake up the London Politburo to the fact that folk other than Londoners who need / choose to visit the City may in the end choose not to do so.
Major effect on the City's income.
Unfortunately residents would suffer even higher prices etc., but that may bring pressure to bear. Politicians are residents.
In the UK we tend to roll over when politicians make decisions that cost us. Most of us have the facility to vote with our feet, in this case keep out of the place altogether and spend elsewhere.

I live 9 mile from it and I ain't going in till LEZ is gone car boat plane or train

I pay road tax to use all the highways and byways so why can't my truck pass through :Angry::Angry::Angry::Angry:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[johnp10]

I live 9 mile from it and I ain't going in till LEZ is gone car boat plane or train

I pay road tax to use all the highways and byways so why can't my truck pass through :Angry::Angry::Angry::Angry:

Absolutely!
Thats the point.

 

[wander]

Our van is also a Fiat Ducato with the 2.8 JTD engine. It was first registered in May 2003 and is compliant (I just checked again to make sure) so presumably your younger van will be OK.

I notice that the facility to check compliance by Vehicle Registration Mark now has options to check foreign registered vehicles (including Spain) as well as UK registered ones so you may be able to check on-line Link Removed.

At the moment London is the only UK city which has a LEZ.

Thanks for that, very helpful, as you say if our van is a little younger we should be okay. I did try the on-line check the other day but it comes up with 'details unknown - try the relevant office of your country'. I doubt Spain even know what emissions are!!

 

[darklord]

Our van is also a Fiat Ducato with the 2.8 JTD engine. It was first registered in May 2003 and is compliant (I just checked again to make sure) so presumably your younger van will be OK.

I notice that the facility to check compliance by Vehicle Registration Mark now has options to check foreign registered vehicles (including Spain) as well as UK registered ones so you may be able to check on-line Link Removed.

At the moment London is the only UK city which has a LEZ.

Ours is registered one month later, the same year with the same engine, and is NOT compliant?????????

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[johnp10]

Just checked.
Non compliant.
Saw enough of London as a lorry driver, bloody awful place.
No desire to go there, certainly will not be told to change the vehicle, buy a filter or pay a boat load of cash in LEZ fees just for the privilege of spending money there..

Vote with the feet.

 

[slobadoberbob]

At the moment London is the only UK city which has a LEZ.

It is in the UK.. But Germany has clean vehicle requirements in many cities and you have to produce the documents to get the ticket for the motorhome.

Bob

 

[slobadoberbob]

perhaps I may have worded it better

I can understand where you are coming from but to a certain extent I disagree that sufficient notice was given Bob.]

What I was saying that the population of London was well aware that the LEZ was going to come about for a long time.. the fact that notices were not given to owners does to mean that the vast majority of owners of vehicle that were at risk knew about it.

Hence there was protests from those that operated breakdown trucks. My understanding the dustbin lorries also were effected.

While I know the Edmonton area well, I used to live in Chingford not far from the North Circular Road I was under the impression it was of the type that stopped the carbon deposits being pushed out.. I think it was fitted with a particular filter at build stage. You do not see clouds of soot bellowing from it as you pass it by.... I do travel that road often...

I do not think wealth has anything to do with the issue.. we all would like a larger budget to run our motorhomes. While you have the LEZ to contend with other places have tolls and parking charges so we all pay in some way or other.. Me? I pay a lot lot more in VAT on fuel to the government.. as I do 14 to the gallon on petrol in an RV.. but that is a choice I make.. so I pay for that choice.

I am not having a go at anyone.. just stating the fact something had to be done, not popular I know.. but it was done I feel for the right reasons.

Bob

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}