Leisure Battery Cooked. (1 Viewer)

[jessthedog]

Picked the van up from storage, parked on drive on hook up last night, to get the fridge and everything going. Opened van this morning and it smelt a bit strange!
Thought I might have a slight leak at gas bottle, so checked all fittings, then checked with soapy
With the door opened the smell was dissipating.
Had lunch and come out, could still smell something, electrical I thought! Smelt the hook up connection, nothing.
So checked my leisure battery under passenger seat.

It was red hot and battery case was bulging!!!! Oh Flip, I thought. Thats not ideal.
Disconnected the hook up, Turned the Electroblock off. opened a few windows.

I've just come in after taking the passenger seat off, (they are bloody heavy)
Donned my PPE and disconnected the battery. Got the battery out. It was light after the seat

Now, I have only had the van a few weeks. I don't know how old the battery is. Is there anything on batteries that will tell you the age?

I was going to change it soon for 2 new ones, but now my hand has been forced. My weekend away in Abingdon is ruined.

The battery is a Banner 95AH AGM. It had a plastic vent pipe going through the floor.
The charger was set for a GEL battery?

Is there anything else I need to do? I noticed that the solar reg was still lit up even with the electroblock off!

The other thing, I can't put the electric steps up now either
Thanks.

 

[funflair]

I don't know the age of your van but it quite possibly came with Gel battery originally and some numpty didn't set the charger correctly when the Banner AGM was fitted, when you put the new battery on make sure the Chargers including solar are set to the correct battery type.

At least it was vented through the floor otherwise there would have been even more smell/gas, shows the importance of fitting vent tubes.

Martin

 

[Camping Gaza]

Charge voltages for a gel battery are different than flooded acid. Can't remember the settings off hand, but red hot and bulging means it must have been cooking a long time. Your charger must be SNAFU'd and not providing a float charge. (or set for the wrong battery type but I woud have thought it would not do that kind of damage!!) its probably feeding it a bulk charge. I would chuck the old battery connect a good one and shove a volt meter on it on a permanent basis and keep an eye on the charging of the new one.

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[JeanLuc]

Unless yours is a very new motorhome, the Elektrobloc (EBL) will not have a charging program for AGM batteries. Many manufacturers started fitting them instead of the more expensive gel batteries and a lot 'get away' with using the gel program - but not always. There has been much discussion about Banner AGMs failing with EBLs (cue post from LennyHB).
If it were me, I would replace with either a sealed lead-acid or a gel. My recommendation (assuming you have limited height under the seat, would be either the Varta LFD90 (sealed lead acid) or the Exide ES900 (gel). These are 90Ah and 80Ah respectively - the Exide costs at least 50% more than the Varta but can be discharged deeper without damage. Whichever you choose, be sure to set the battery selector on the EBL correctly - it must be done with the EBL switched off and mains disconnected.

 

[jessthedog]

Unless yours is a very new motorhome, the Elektrobloc (EBL) will not have a charging program for AGM batteries. Many manufacturers started fitting them instead of the more expensive gel batteries and a lot 'get away' with using the gel program - but not always. There has been much discussion about Banner AGMs failing with EBLs (cue post from LennyHB).
If it were me, I would replace with either a sealed lead-acid or a gel. My recommendation (assuming you have limited height under the seat, would be either the Varta LFD90 (sealed lead acid) or the Exide ES900 (gel). These are 90Ah and 80Ah respectively - the Exide costs at least 50% more than the Varta but can be discharged deeper without damage. Whichever you choose, be sure to set the battery selector on the EBL correctly - it must be done with the EBL switched off and mains disconnected.

Thanks.
I'm not going down the Gel route and I'm going to get 2 LFD90's as you suggest
I will change the EBL 101 setting to lead acid.

I will have to look up how to change the solar regulator. Its a German Kemo M174.
Now the battery will be a 180AH, do you know what size cable I require to connect the 2 up?
Also what would the fuse rating be?

Thanks.

 

[jessthedog]

I don't know the age of your van but it quite possibly came with Gel battery originally and some numpty didn't set the charger correctly when the Banner AGM was fitted, when you put the new battery on make sure the Chargers including solar are set to the correct battery type.

At least it was vented through the floor otherwise there would have been even more smell/gas, shows the importance of fitting vent tubes.

Martin

Thanks Martin. It's a 2012 Dethleffs Espirt. I'm not sure that a AGM battery should of been fitted full stop.
The charger only has Lead Acid and Gel setting.

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[Lenny HB]

Yep Banner AGM's are a pile of poo, mine failed after 18 months, Gel setting for the AGM is the recommended setting, I replaced mine with Gel's.
Hymer group have been fitting AGM's since 2012, originally Banner then Varta, but a proper charger was not available until last year. With the Electroblock only charging to 14.4v they never get fully charged which causes premature failer.

 

[jessthedog]

Yep Banner AGM's are a pile of poo, mine failed after 18 months, Gel setting for the AGM is the recommended setting, I replaced mine with Gel's.

Thanks.
I've been reading up a lot of threads regarding batteries and the Banner AGM's.
I'm not going to spend a fortune like your good self on GEL batteries. I'm going to go old school, Varta Lead Acid.
My worry really! Is how far off was the battery from going pop. The fuses are there to protect the cable.
Maybe the batteries need a heat sensor or something to warn you, if it's all going Pete Tong?

 

[Manic]

You should cover or disconnect the solar panel.

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[jessthedog]

Thanks.
Disconnect it from the elektroblock.?
I will have to go out and try and find the connection.
Cheers

 

[Lenny HB]

Thanks.
I've been reading up a lot of threads regarding batteries and the Banner AGM's.
I'm not going to spend a fortune like your good self on GEL batteries. I'm going to go old school, Varta Lead Acid.
My worry really! Is how far off was the battery from going pop. The fuses are there to protect the cable.
Maybe the batteries need a heat sensor or something to warn you, if it's all going Pete Tong?

Gel's have come down a lot in price, I paid £300 for two. having them transferred to the new van certainly don't want the AGM that it comes with.

 

[funflair]

Thanks Martin. It's a 2012 Dethleffs Espirt. I'm not sure that a AGM battery should of been fitted full stop.
The charger only has Lead Acid and Gel setting.

As Lenny says Hymer group went a bit cheapskate and started fitting AGM, if you are keeping the van a few years I would fit Gel as they are not that much more than FLA.

Martin

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[JeanLuc]

Disconnect the panel cable + connector from the regulator. This is a general rule before disconnecting batteries because if you leave a solar charge coming into the regulator without a battery connected to the regulator output for it to 'dump' into, it can fry the regulator. If you are changing the regulator anyway, you might consider one of the Schaudt regulators (LR1218 or LRM1218 - PWM and MPPT versions respectively)
or a Votronic MPPT regulator that is compatible with the EBL http://votronic.de/index.php/en/products2/solar-technology/charging-controllers

 

[jessthedog]

You should cover or disconnect the solar panel.

Looked at Elektroblock EBL 101 diagram. It's switched off, but where the solar regulator supply should be.No 9. Nothing!
But a reserve fitting at No 8 has a plug in it. I haven't got a clue what it's for.
I pulled the solar fuse, hoping it is the Solar fuse!
So I don't know how to disconnect the solar regulator.

I wish people would write what each connection or fuse is for, as is a requirement in domestic electrics.
I've got about 6 fuses in the EBL 101 all stating Reserve! That's helpful.

 

[jessthedog]

Disconnect the panel cable + connector from the regulator. This is a general rule before disconnecting batteries because if you leave a solar charge coming into the regulator without a battery connected to the regulator output for it to 'dump' into, it can fry the regulator. If you are changing the regulator anyway, you might consider one of the Schaudt regulators (LR1218 or LRM1218 - PWM and MPPT versions respectively)
or a Votronic MPPT regulator that is compatible with the EBL http://votronic.de/index.php/en/products2/solar-technology/charging-controllers

Thanks Jean Luc,
See post above. I can't find how to disconnect the regulator. What do you mean by panel connector? On the EBL?

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[Manic]

Do you know what solar regulator you have, you could disconnect at regulator but you shouldn't disconnect it whilst under load.
Regarding solar input, when I fitted mine it wouldn't work on the correct position and had to use the extra charger position.

 

[jessthedog]

Do you know what solar regulator you have, you could disconnect at regulator but you shouldn't disconnect it whilst under load.
Regarding solar input, when I fitted mine it wouldn't work on the correct position and had to use the extra charger position.

This is a picture of it, I took the other day. Should I try and get access to the cables connecting it at bottom. It will mean taking a panel out.
I can't see where it's connected on the EBL.
@JeanLuc has said the solar panel will fry it, if not connected to a battery.
It's not easy to disconnect the cables though.
Cheers

 

[jessthedog]

@JeanLuc @Manic Disconnected the solar charging regulator, by torch light There was enough slack for me do it without taking a wood pane out.
Thanks

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[JeanLuc]

You need to disconnect the solar panel feed into the regulator, I.e. the + connector at the right of your latest picture above. What you should not do is disconnect the regulator from the batteries, or EBL whilst the panel is still connected to the regulator.
It is possible that your installation does not have the regulator connected to the EBL at all but is connected directly to the batteries. If so, you will not see any solar charge on the main control panel that is connected to the EBL. Trace the cables from the regulator and see where they go.

 

[Reallyretired]

I have today bitten the bullet and ordered a replacement starter battery and two leisure batteries from Tayna. My starter battery is in poor shape though the leisure batteries don't seem too bad though they are eight years old. The thing with my charging system is that the starter battery only gets a charge from solar once the leisure batteries are over 13.6v so if the leisure batteries are borderline the starter battery gets diddly squat in the winter, hence why the starter battery is duff.
My leisure batteries are sealed lead acid, as I have always used, and they are suitable to my normal use. Solar in the summer and ehu in the winter so never deep cycled (except this autumn/winter when the MH has been off the road awaiting repairs. Now done but you certainly don't want to get parts from Rapido with any urgency)

 

[Reallyretired]

On the topic of disconnecting the solar panels before disconnecting the batteries. Because my fuse is not easy to get at I have fitted a switch (32 amp switch) as in full sunlight there will be 20-30A coming from the panels.

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[jessthedog]

You need to discoSchaunnect the solar panel feed into the regulator, I.e. the + connector at the right of your latest picture above. What you should not do is disconnect the regulator from the batteries, or EBL whilst the panel is still connected to the regulator.
It is possible that your installation does not have the regulator connected to the EBL at all but is connected directly to the batteries. If so, you will not see any solar charge on the main control panel that is connected to the EBL. Trace the cables from the regulator and see where they go.

I think you could be correct in the regulator is not connected to the EBL.

Could that be a reason that the battery got fried? It was being charged by the electroblock from hook up and from sloar panel?
I will trace cables. The cables might have gone to starter battery as well.

I think, as I have disconnected the regulator, I will either get the Schaudt LRM1218 as you suggested or the votronic, which is 50 quid cheaper!
Be easier with the Schaudt if it comes with the correct sockets to connect to my EBL 101. I can then connect up a digital display as well.

 

[JeanLuc]

I think you could be correct in the regulator is not connected to the EBL.

Could that be a reason that the battery got fried? It was being charged by the electroblock from hook up and from sloar panel?
I will trace cables. The cables might have gone to starter battery as well.

I think, as I have disconnected the regulator, I will either get the Schaudt LRM1218 as you suggested or the votronic, which is 50 quid cheaper!
Be easier with the Schaudt if it comes with the correct sockets to connect to my EBL 101. I can then connect up a digital display as well.

Unlikely that solar plus mains charging is the problem so long as both are working properly.
Concerning the Votronic regulator, note that they supply a cable set to connect to an EBL if you specify this with the order. Both Schaudt (of course) and Votronic regulators should work well with the EBL and display solar charging state on the control panel.

 

[jessthedog]

Unlikely that solar plus mains charging is the problem so long as both are working properly.
Concerning the Votronic regulator, note that they supply a cable set to connect to an EBL if you specify this with the order. Both Schaudt (of course) and Votronic regulators should work well with the EBL and display solar charging state on the control panel.

Thanks for all your help

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[jessthedog]

Update.
I opened up the DO NOT OPEN filling caps to have a look inside the failed Banner. I don't know if a AGM is supposed to be dry? Never had one before, but it was bone dry!

Looked up the battery serial number and it was a 2012, so must be the original battery.
As I don't know the history of how it's been used it hasn't done bad, lasting near on 5 years, good for a Banner AGM charged on GEL setting @Lenny HB

 

[Lenny HB]

Looked up the battery serial number and it was a 2012, so must be the original battery.
As I don't know the history of how it's been used it hasn't done bad, lasting near on 5 years, good for a Banner AGM charged on GEL setting @Lenny HB

Gel's would have probably lasted 10 years, and it is only the start of 2017 also could have been in stock for a while before being fitted may have only been in service 3 years.

More to the point how has it been used, if like me you don't use EHU it has done well but if you use EHU the battery is only acting as a smoother on the system and not really being used so any battery should last.

 

[jessthedog]

Gel's would have probably lasted 10 years, and it is only the start of 2017 also could have been in stock for a while before being fitted may have only been in service 3 years.

More to the point how has it been used, if like me you don't use EHU it has done well but if you use EHU the battery is only acting as a smoother on the system and not really being used so any battery should last.

Yes, You could be right. I don't know the history, so could have been 2nd battery.

I'm sure the Gel batteries are the dogs gonads, but I've bought 2 Varta LFD90's, 180 quid next day delivery,so I'm pleased with that.

Very tight fitting 2 batteries under seat, wired one up, so I could get the steps up.
Need to get some stuff to connect up the other battery.

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[Lenny HB]

Yes, You could be right. I don't know the history, so could have been 2nd battery.

I'm sure the Gel batteries are the dogs gonads, but I've bought 2 Varta LFD90's, 180 quid next day delivery,so I'm pleased with that.

Very tight fitting 2 batteries under seat, wired one up, so I could get the steps up.
Need to get some stuff to connect up the other battery.

Good choice, don't forget to vent them to the outside, personally I wouldn't fit wet cells under the don't fancy acid over my feet if had a big shunt.

 

[jessthedog]

Good choice, don't forget to vent them to the outside, personally I wouldn't fit wet cells under the don't fancy acid over my feet if had a big shunt.

Good point, but they've been fitting them under the seat well before Gel was on the market, haven't they?
If I'm in passenger seat, I will have to remember to pick my feet up just before we crash.
The AGM had a vent pipe, so I will utilise that and vent the other through the engine battery box. Thanks

 

[JeanLuc]

At the risk of stating the bl**ding obvious, don't forget to change the battery selector switch on the EBL to blei saure (lead-acid) before you switch the EBL back on.

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