Judderists!

Discussion in 'Fiat' started by WillH, Jul 29, 2008.

  1. WillH

    WillH Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    SW Scotland
    I have just come off the phone to our local Fiat dealer after booking my van in for an inspection of the judder. After speaking to the mechanic he reckons that Fiat are still waiting for sufficient numbers of customers to make a complaint.

    I made my compaint in writing after having the van for 4 months and deciding this judder wasn't going to go away. They in turn have asked me to take the van to a Fiat dealer for examination. The maechanic has told me that the official line must be adhered to but to keep my claim active i must follow Fiats requirements.

    please everbody out there with a judder, get writing.

    rgds
    Bill:Smile::Smile::Smile:
     
  2. American Dream

    American Dream Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,489
    Likes Received:
    154
    Location:
    Lincoln
    Hi Bill,

    Just out of interest , is this judder engine related, drive train or chassis etc?
     
  3. JayDee

    JayDee Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    166
    Location:
    N. Devon
    There's quite a lot about this subject in August's MMM.

    Apparently it's a characteristic of the vehicle - which translates in my mind to 'we designed and built a vehicle with the characteristic that will damage your gear box and clutch. Please buy it!'

    If I was in the market I'd be looking at Renault, Mercedes and Iveco bases. Definitely not Fiat / Peugeot.

    I just feel sorry for all the poor misled and mistreated owners.

    Maybe they'll get the message eventually


    John
     
  4. WillH

    WillH Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    SW Scotland
    The judder feels drivetrain related, similar to trying to reverse a heavy caravan on soft ground, i.e. there doesn't seem to be enough 'grunt'. I feel that the gear ratio is not low enough, it certainly feels higher than 1st gear.

    To my way of thinking i should be able to reverse at a 'crawl' without over revving the engine as recommended. If the engine is revved, over 1300 rpm as recommended by Fiat, the judder disappears, but so does the drivers control over the vehicle, safety is compromised.

    Any other ideas out there?

    Rgds
    Bill
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. American Dream

    American Dream Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,489
    Likes Received:
    154
    Location:
    Lincoln
    You may have got it.

    Perhaps they used a stock gearbox and the reverse gear was designed for a lighter vehicle?....Just a thought.Can you imagine all the retooling required to setup the correct ratios for a heavier vehicle than a standard "van" chassis?

    To over-rev an engine just to get the power will involve delicate clutch control and stressing on the clutch itself plus wear on the friction plate.:Doh:

    Alternatively..if this occurs at a certain speed, it may be a shaft/component out of balance.

    They should really be sorting this.:Angry: Sounds like they know about this but are (allegedly) shirking their responsibilities.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2008
  6. WillH

    WillH Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    SW Scotland
    Hi again,

    had my van inspected by Fiat and of course there is nothing wrong, merely a 'characteristic'. After trying various things I came to the conclusion that the reverse gear ratio is too high, higher than 1st gear in fact.

    When I accessed both the Fiat and Peugeot websites to get the tech spec on the gear ratios the 130 hp engine has disappeared as an option, I am sure it was there a couple of weeks ago.

    Perhaps they have realised they must do something.

    Rgds
    Bill:Sad:
     
  7. Adria 5

    Adria 5 Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,197
    Likes Received:
    4
    hi theres a article on rear judder in mmm magazine..intresting:Smile:

    ray
     
  8. itexuk

    itexuk Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Taunton Somerset
  9. Munchie

    Munchie Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    8,527
    Likes Received:
    11,661
    Location:
    Champagnac-La-Riviere
    Latest

    Read today on another forum :Wink:

    Fiat have said that they will be sending out a letter to owners either later this week or early next week which will give us the assurances and information we all need.
    They are proposing to examine all the vehicles the subject of a complaint and carry out the necessary remedial work to the customer's satisfaction.
    This will involve a combination of modified engine mountings, a lower reverse gear ratio and a clutch modification.
    The work will start on the 2.3 litre versions first probably at the end of January, then to the 2.2 litre and 3 litre version after that.
    The exact timetable for such a huge logistical task will be hard to judge until the work is underway, and nobody will be queue jumping by shouting loudest apparently, so we will all have to wait until we are contacted. :thumb:
     
  10. Kon tiki

    Kon tiki Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Wales
    Are they saying they are going to recall ALL vehicles? I thought that they originally said they were only going to fix vans who had reported a fault. I made the descion to avoid all the Sevel based motorhomes when we bought our last van partly because of Fiat's lack of action on this problem. I know it was only a small amount of owners who suffered compared to the amount they sell but what about the vans that don't get 'fixed' will the second hand value of these be affected?
     
  11. dshague

    dshague Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    181
    Location:
    sth yorks
  12. ronald4874

    ronald4874 Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Poole Dorset
    Ron W

    The juddering gearbox is a serious fault and was there when the vehicle left the factory. Yes they now understand the problem and will have to deal with the situation, because even in say 5 years time it can be proved that the fault existed at the outset, manufacturers are liable to correct the problem.
    It would be interesting if the vehicle has had several owners by that time. The second hand value on these vans will no doubt suffer in the mean time. I wonder in law wether one can be compensated for this lose?.
     
  13. dshague

    dshague Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    181
    Location:
    sth yorks
    this is off mmm


    Posts: 323

    Well, I think that we will finally have the information and assurances we all seek from Fiat either later this week or early next week.
    After a conversation with Fiat today they are stating, categorically, that they have a plan of action to rectify all the vans which are the subject of a complaint and have a case number.
    The solution involves modified engine mountings, clutch changes and a lower reverse gear in some cases.
    The logistics of carriyng out all this work will require quite some organising and Fiat will be contacting owners shortly to supply a more definite timescale. There is no point contacting them at the moment.
    I believe that the 2.3 litre 6 speed versions will be dealt with first (from the end of January onwards) then they will look at the 3 litre and 2.2 litre versions after that.
    And from what the Fiat representiative told me I don't think this is another delaying tactic.
    There are going to be some 'issues' which owners will need to consider when the work is done, and nearer the time I will put something on here, and email an info sheet to affected owners about how to get things done to their satisfaction.
    Hopefully that's about it really.
     
  14. buccaneer

    buccaneer Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    1
    But does this help people with Peugeots,I know Dec's MMM has a spokesman from Peugeot saying it will be fixed but that was before this fiat news and it had not been passed onto dealers.
     
  15. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,442
    Likes Received:
    16,867
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    thats just put up the price of a new fiat chassis then, someone has to pay for all the work needed.:Angry::Angry:
     
  16. bigfoot

    bigfoot Funster

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    3,991
    Likes Received:
    5,038
    Location:
    Wirral CH42 8PH
    The person who should be thanked for this result is Andy Stothert. He stuck with this tenaciously and didn't get 'fobbed off' with trite platitudes from Fiat or dealers he has researched his case well and assisted many disgruntled owners myself included.I await the result with eager anticipation!!
     
  17. Kon tiki

    Kon tiki Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Wales
    This to me is the BIG problem, from what you are saying they are only going to fix vehicles which are showing signs of juddering & have a case number & not fix all vans. As somebody else has said vans which might have this problem then what??
    If I had a van which might be prone to this I would be screaming for it to have the modification.:shout: To me they should own up & admit it is a possible problem & not a characteristic. :Angry:
     
  18. roger loiselle

    roger loiselle Deleted User

    We recently took delivery of an Auto Trail with a ducato 3 litre automatic which doesn't judder at all, I wonder if the size of engine and/or the automatic influences this? Regards Roger Loiselle
     
  19. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,458
    Likes Received:
    8,598
    Location:
    Ilfracombe, Devon
    As a characteristic rather than a possible problem they have stated it all vans rather than a few so will be interesting to see how they proceed.
     
  20. Kon tiki

    Kon tiki Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Wales
    I believe that the automatics are the only ones that don't have a problem, I personally think it is a lot to do with the gear ratio of reverse being too high.
     

Share This Page