Interesting phone call don't let this happen

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by motor roamin, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    Sad I know I went into the office this morning as I had to name driving tests and prepare one of the trucks for MOT tomorrow (last one till May I think)

    Whilst there I had a phone call from a guy........he is 70 years old ex HGV driver who is trying to renew his C1+E restricted to continue using his RV..........so far no problem........he had a heart attack in 1999 at which point he lost his HGV but following a medical he was granted his C1+E.....he has just passed another medical sent covering letters from his consultant giving him a clean bill of health.........but DVLA have asked him to retract his application, now he can appeal, my question is does any one on here know if he has any other redress, I think this is against his human rights......and the DVLA are trying to bully him out of a licence he is entitled to.

    Any thoughts would be gratefully received from some one who knows better than me.

    Have a great new year Rick.

    __________________
     
  2. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Am no lawyer but if he has just passed a medical and sent covering letters from his consultant,what right do DVLA have to say he is unfit to drive.
    I personaly know several HGV drivers over 70 and still working,although having to have annual medicals.Is this some new directive to get older drivers off the road?.
    If it were me I would sertainly appeal and claim all costs,including loss of use.
     
  3. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    I couldn't agree more like you I know many drivers over 70 still working full time driving artics, some fitter than me.

    I am trying to get anotheravenue for him to persue if he is not successful in his appeal.

    Thanks for the reply

    Rick
     
  4. MicknPat

    MicknPat Funster

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    Snowbird, Have the 70+ HGV drivers who you know also suffered with a heart attack?

    The question to ask yourselves before making any decision is, " If the decision to issue this driver with a further HGV licence is down to YOU and he suffers a further heart attack and wipes out a family of 4 with his RV how guilty would you feel?"
     
  5. whingyraindrop

    whingyraindrop Funster

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    Look at the 'At a glance guide to the current medical standards of fitness to drive' on the DVLA website. It is intended as guidance for medical practitioners but I think the general public can access it too. It is updated regularly and is evidence based. Unfortunately I am unable to put in the link.
     
  6. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    An old friend that drives this 50 ton 5 axel 8 wheel drive Ginaf on a daily basis is 81 years old this January.I strugle to get into the cab somdays.
     
  7. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Whether they have or not is of no consiquence.
    As the original poster stated,the person in question had a clean bill of health with a recent medical,proped up by his consultants report that he was fit to drive.How many people do you know driving around that are under 70 so dont nead a medical,but still have heart attacks.You could do just as much damage with a 3500kg European MH as you could with a 7500kg RV,either is going to make a hell of a mess of somones Nisan Micra.
     
  8. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    I understand what you are saying Mick, following a heart attack the medical undertaken is not a standard D4, it's a full medical including treadmill and has to be accompanied with a letter from a consultant, most people would not pass this medical (and indeed don't) following a heart attack, this guy has plus he has had his C1+E entitlement back for 8 years.

    Have a great new year Rick
     
  9. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    it has been pointed out before on the forum, a driving licence is a priviledge...not a right.

    dvla are the body who issue licences and they are the ones who decide if you get one or not even if no-one gets rejected when they first apply.

    i reckon his only re-course is to appeal the decision and hope for the best.
     
  10. Road Runner

    Road Runner Read Only Funster

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    If you pass a test and a medical also have no points against you it in my view is a right (otherwise dvla are acting like gods)

    Otherwise you could say a fit person is allowed to live as a privilege and it not their right.
     
  11. sedge

    sedge Funster

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    Well, the whole of Europe must withdraw all "HGV" licences that heart attack victims over 70 hold, no matter whether they still work for a living or what. A member country can't start changing the rules and picking and choosing who they apply them to. Not when it is an EU licence they are issuing anyway.

    Then no-one can argue and it is 100% clear that under those circumstances, you can't have this licence.

    Me? - I'd back the bloke all the way to Strasbourg and the Court of Human Rights !!
     
  12. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    why not ? the spanish appear to pick and choose which laws to apply and which to alter to their own interpretation and for their own convenience.
    only us UK puppets adhere strictly to the rules :Doh:
     
  13. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

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    If he has passed medicals and jumped through the required hoops, I cannot see how they can refuse, really. I know it is a priviledge and all that, but he has complied with everything - so what are they playing at?

    They do get quite funny with health problems and lorry licences. A friend had his lorry pilfered for fuel, where they cracked him over the head with a tyre iron. He had a plate put in his head and he was fine - no ill effects at all. They still insisted he waited 3 years 'just in case' he developed epilepsy (he had never had a fit, nor ever did) and no doctors letter would pursuade them different. They did make it difficult though, and he did have to hound them to get it back.

    Yet they still allowed him to drive C1+E daily, which you would have thought, if they were that bothered about it, they would have stopped that as well!

    I also agree with Pappajohn - most EU countries, take EU legislation to the toilet with them for a little light reading, and then wipe their rears with it!:thumb:
     
  14. sedge

    sedge Funster

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    OK pappajohn - in that case I accept it dunno why the OP is getting all upset - couldn't give a shhhhhhhhh, it doesn't affect me or our van, so hard luck on the bloke. Into each life some rain must fall ..... just as long as it isn't mine.



    That suit you better?
     
  15. Tony Santara

    Tony Santara Funster

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    I can't agree with Papppajohn and his "priviledge " theory on driving licences . Sorry John but it usually costs a lot of money and time to pass the test to start with , plus another load of "dosh" and time to pass an HGV test on top of that , so I believe it is a "Right" .

    I also know of at least one younger 30'ish HGV driver that passed the test with a hole in his heart from birth presently driving tankers full of hazardous chemicals round the country.

    In my opinion the old guy should fight for his rights
     
  16. MicknPat

    MicknPat Funster

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    Snowbird, The BIG difference my friend is that it is NOT those here in this thread who have to make that decision that MAY have life threatening consequences.

    Yes there are lots of drivers well under 70 who may have heart problems that they don't know about, but once a problem has been identified then it may have to be up to others to make a decision to protect the rest of us.

    The simple question to ask the driver is, " Can you guarantee that for the next 12 months you will NOT suffer another heart attack"

    If he was an airline pilot we wouldn't be having this debate would we?
     
  17. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

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    I agree he should fight!!

    It is a priviledge, as stated by DVLA. Which is on the basis that once you have proven you comply with minimum safe ability standards (driving test) have undertaken minimum medical checks where required you can drive as your licence permits.

    Become incompetant, unfit, or fail to comply with road legislation and they will/can take it away again.

    In this guys' case, he has complied with all their demands - so there is no valid reason to refuse him. Without those reasons, they cannot really deny him as he is proven he is fit enough, jumped through the hoops, so he should not be descriminated against. It would be unwise of DVLA to refuse without reason! He does need to fight...from what I remember from when my friend was given his back - there was quite alot of messing around, and he did have to fight and hassle them, so maybe this is their proceadure!
     
  18. dave newell lvs

    dave newell lvs Trader-Vehicle Services

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    The one point I would like to pick up on is tha DVLA have not refused to issue a licence as such but have asked him to retract his application..................on what grounds? is it improperly made out? does it not include a current and acceptable photo? Quite simply WHY? If they weren't prepared to grant him his licence they would have just refused surely, why ask the applicant to unapply?

    Then again this DVLA, not even the people who work there know what they're doing or why!

    D.
     
  19. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    You are correct..its not people on here that have to make the life threatening decision...its some jobsworth at DVLA who has never met the man.IMO thats wrong,profesional people have examined him and given him a clean bill of health.
    I dont know of anyone over the age of 45 who could give an honest answer to "Can you guarantee that for the next 12 months you will NOT suffer another heart attack"
    I fail to see what airline pilots have to do with it,but am sure they are in there somwhere.
     
  20. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

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    I do not see and never will see a driving licence as a privilage.
    I worked for my licence as does everyone else. I am entitled, now if my health removes that entitlement and I then get better, have surgery or whatever I would expect to get my licence back. Full stop. An entitlement not privilage. The classes on my licence are ENTITLEMENTS, not privilages.
     
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