Insurance Quote ~ don't mention Solar Panels!! (2 Viewers)

Geo

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Quote from Geo

"Its American and the TV's dont work over here
They dont? do all RVs have to change the TVs?
Yes they do, :Eeek:
Sensing the alarm in her voice I stopped short of pointing out that the whole electrical system is sometimes changed from 110v to 240V
They really don't have a clue, and this was from an RV specialist insurer too"

So what happens if you or other RV owners have an electrical fire and you haven't declared it?

Geo you know how to do loads of stuff on your RV, and do it well. Have you informed your insurers of every tiny electrical installation, even if it's only a replacement of say 1m of cable?

What the right thing to do when you fit a charging relay from leisure to vehicle battery?

Will someone tell me at what point do we not inform the insurers, when is the item too insignificant? Where is a list we can work from?
That's the 3rd time I have asked who has the definitive list of what we should ignore and no reply from people with strong opinions on this.

Have been very lucky to have had only 2 insurance claims in my life (no make that 3 as also a cracked windscreen), 1 where our MH was broken into and trashed in Spain, the second when a very nice car of mine was locked in a garage and someone an employee of a neighbouring business walked across the roof of my garage and fell clean through, damaged the boot, rear wing and roof, it had an aluminium body.

In both cases I was correctly insured and in both cases not present, in both cases the insurers wriggled to an obscene degree. So my regard for insurers isn't too high especially after meeting a claims adjuster on a social level and heard a few stories.

Everybody should stay within the rules and regs of their insurance, but for the fourth time where is the list, or do we use common sense God forbid?

I will try and answer your question its not that hard your insurer will only have an idea of what he is insuring form the manufacturers spec sheets ie he knows an Escort GTI will be dearer to fix than the basic Escort and more of a road risk due to its uprated performance and more of a theft risk due to its spec
The same applies to Motorhomes every new model is valued by its selling price and or purchase price (they are different) The selling price may be 90 thousand but you got it for 75 thousand in a deal, Dont expect 90thousand if it gets stolen, they could argue your loss is only 75 thousand and pay out that amount
So the same would apply to all your undeclared extras they didnt know the risk was now 110 thousand due to solar, satelite and a whole bunch of other toys nearly £14000 worth is Sloberdobs case:Eeek:
As for a list you are asking he impossible, the insures can and do offer such lists/advise but always without exception end it by saying "this list is not exhaustive" meaning there could be others not thought of, an example would be in the case of an Winnebago with a £10,000 genuine Winnebago Indian Totem Pole on his roof, now who would have thought of that in simple terms anything that could/would effect in material terms the insurance risk and yes it can include some really mundane things such as alloy wheels skirt kits, go faster stripes etc any thing tat might make your motor home more desirable to a thief needs notifying, anything that increases risk to the insurers needs notifying
The choice to notify or not to notify would in my case be based on the question could they use that against me to avoid paying out if i belive or even suspect they could I notifiey them
As for my electrical work on the RV I have it tested and certified by a qualified electrician, and i mean comprehensively tested, installation and performance of breakers etc
like you do your Domestic Dwelling, You Do Have Your Home Tested And Certified Don't You t:winky:
 

pappajohn

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I'm sure most people buy insurance over the phone and the sales assistant will tell you that calls are monitored and recorded (for training purposes you understand :roflmto:)

and because of this a stock answer to "is the vehicle modified in any way ?" could be ....."to the best of my knowledge it is not modified"

this will then be on your file.

how do YOU know what a previous owner altered/changed/modified ?
 
OP
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OK, for the last time lets agree to disagree.

I still consider (in my old fashioned way) that when asked if the vehicle has been modified my instant answer would be no when considering solar panels. Yes it is an added accessory which may change the vehicle value, but not modified as I understand it.

In about 2 months I will fit air suspension, now that is a modification in my view and once fitted will be advised. The difference is one will affect the performance of the vehicle and one wont.

Two or three of you feel the opposite, that's fine by me, it would be rude of me to say that you are silly for thinking different to me.
You are probably more in touch with modern ways of the world, but I guess modern doesn't automatically mean better though does it?

So I take your point but wonder if common sense and self determination are disappearing? Have the people designing boxes (for the box tickers) taken over the way we live our lives and we have just given in to them without a fight?

ps: On a lighter note am posting a photo in a separate thread of the perfect place for a funster meet, ciao!

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1948

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SAGA, for years insured all my cars till I made two non fault claims Very poor service. Left, never looked back since, saved hundreds in premiums also.
 

sedge

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If anyone can't fully embrace the concept of 'risk' to an insurer, then they will most likely not be able to grasp what might increase it, other than the obvious.

The list of items would be the size of Encyclopedia Britannica. Insurers don't expect Joe Public to know most of what's on it. Instead they limit it to

'Just tell us everything that, to the best of your knowledge, wasn't absolutely bog standard when it came out of the factory and let us decide. If you are in any doubt - tell us anyway!'

If they say it increases their risk, and it isn't apparent to the proposer - then they have to be able to explain to him why they believe that.

If they can't they are crap anyway - so go somewhere else!
 

scotjimland

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The policyholder's obligations
In law, a person applying for or renewing a policy of insurance is obliged to disclose all material facts. A material fact is one which would have an effect – not necessarily decisive – on the mind of a prudent insurer in assessing the risk. If a person fails to disclose a material fact, and that failure induces the policy – that is, causes the insurer to offer cover, or to offer cover on terms which would not otherwise be available – the insurer may, when it becomes aware of the non-disclosure, set the policy aside from outset.

A person may also misrepresent material facts by providing incorrect or incomplete information. There is a technical argument that the Misrepresentation Act 1967 might give the courts discretion to award damages to an insurer in place of setting a policy aside. However, in practice a misrepresentation will also amount to a non-disclosure of the true facts, and insurers typically rely on both defences. It is therefore convenient to consider non-disclosure and misrepresentation together, and this practice is typically followed by the FOS.


Non-disclosure and misrepresentation
Link Removed

The insurance Ombudsman, insurance complaints involving non-disclosure.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/27/27-ins-nondisclosure.htm

More case studies
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/61/61-insurance.htm

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OP
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At least Frank Pickles and I agree.

On advice from Funsters here I mentioned on insurance renewal just under 2 weeks ago that solar panels had been added to the MH after it was manufactured...

Quote from insurance person at Frank Pickles

" no problem, we don't consider solar panels to be a modification "

boom, boom!

What this does prove is the respected Frank Pickles brokerage agree with my opinion as to whether solar panels are an accessory or a modification, and I have chosen an (maybe the only one?) insurance broker + insurer (Aviva) who do agree, but that suits me.
 
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Geo

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These are a slightly deeper rose tint and will have Frank Pickles paying your premium for you:thumb:
Go yet another shade pinker and they will throw in and fit Solar panels free too::bigsmile:

You are an insures dream customer and are heading for a fall ps you dont need to reply I fully understand your illness its called delusional denial:Doh:
Happy days
G
 

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Techno

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For what its worth I recently insured our Rapido with Safeguard and any attempt to inform them of the extras fitted was simply thwarted by "no we don't need to know that! only tell us about anything you change or add since buying it"
I guess the reason being that you quote a given value and that is what they base the premium on so if you change the value with further additions they might like to know

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Insurers always ask you for your valuation - not the cost of your vehicle.

I am sure most of us give a figure higher than that paid - in full knowledge that the insurer would not pay out based on your valuation - but at an agreed market value of a replacement

So why do they ask us for the value in the first place?



 
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Well that`s our 13th year & still loving it.
Every time I`ve taken out a new insurance policy I have always been asked what I paid for the vehicle.

The`re slippery customers these insurance companies, personally I would cover all my bases, I ask all the questions I can and make sure I get the name of the person I`m talking to.

It`s all to easy to be wise after the event, as for hindsight, I`ve got a bloody degree in that.:Doh:
 
OP
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These are a slightly deeper rose tint and will have Frank Pickles paying your premium for you:thumb:
Go yet another shade pinker and they will throw in and fit Solar panels free too::bigsmile:

You are an insures dream customer and are heading for a fall ps you dont need to reply I fully understand your illness its called delusional denial:Doh:
Happy days
G

Now now Geo, no need to get personal.

But on the other hand I am a little unsure.
Are you suggesting that the Frank Pickles person didn't say what I quoted they said, that would mean you are calling me a liar. Or are you suggesting that Frank Pickles/Aviva don't know their business?

As to risk and my approach to it. Sometimes I deliberately court risk, it peps up life a little from the uniform existence that powers that be would like us to lead, don't you agree?

But as mentioned earlier, most are on a no win if in dispute with insurance companies, so it's better to try to comply with as many of their regs as is possible. For example as propounded on this very thread, that it's best to declare solar panels even if you think it is stupid to do so, it keeps them happy.



.

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GJH

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wow what a can of worms you lot opened, not sure what to do now

It's easy. Just give the facts.

For instance, as part of our recent building work at home we had a new PVCu rear door complete with multi-point locking system. Our house insurance company asks whether we have 5 lever mortice licks installed on the final exit doors. It used to be yes to both but now only to one so I rang the company and told them. It didn't make any difference to the premium/cover because the security level is still OK but they have a note that I've been honest with them.
 

rainbow chasers

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'modifications' are a grey area, in that different insurers class different things as 'modifications'. Whereas some would not class a sloar panel as a modification, others would as it would be an extra item they would have to pay out on if the vehicle was stolen, that wasn't factory fit.

Other isuruers may disregard it, as if you look in the small print, you only receive a certain percentage of the vehicles trade value back anyway, which can be as little as 50% in some cases - which cleverly enables them to sell you another 'gap' policy.

Looking into other vehicles, a well known motorcycle insurer hit the headlines when they decided to see 'stickers' as a modification - it didn't go down too well with the motorcyclists, who quite rightly do not consider something like a tank scratch pad as being a modification. But they were using it as an excuse to boost premiums, and were tellking riders they would invalidate insurance if it was not declared - one case where this was done, brought the whole sordid affair to light.

Some insurers are even being quite crafty, and checking forums! If you check out some 4x4 or boy racer forums, there have been a fair few cases where insurers have contacted them about undeclared modifications, the baffled owner then being told it was because they put a picture on a forum showing off their 'new wheels' or similar and had not told their insurer.

I doubt this would happen in a motorhome sense, but it is something they are doing in other areas. Why? I guess one reason being the current financial climate they are trying every excuse under the sun to get more money in, though they are on a earner generally so I don't see why they should be more greedy.

Declare or Not? Up to you and who you choose to insure with - it means you will have all the loopholes sewn up in the case of a claim, and to my mind it is a tool you can use when shopping about. If your insurer wants to use such things to make extortionate boosts to you premium - they are probably the type that will do everything they can to mess you around if you need to claim, so not always a good insurer. This enables you to vote with you feet.

Motorhomes generally are low risk, though expensive the road risk element is low. They are driven a set number of weeks a year in general, and are either kept on a drive or storage so are reasonably secure from accidental damage from other road users when parked. Their main issue will be storm damage. The amount you pay, and the losses you agree to in the event of a claim, and well in favour of the insurer - so pick carefully, and make sure they know and do not charge for 'modifications' and you should be OK.

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OP
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It's easy. Just give the facts.

For instance, as part of our recent building work at home we had a new PVCu rear door complete with multi-point locking system. Our house insurance company asks whether we have 5 lever mortice licks installed on the final exit doors. It used to be yes to both but now only to one so I rang the company and told them. It didn't make any difference to the premium/cover because the security level is still OK but they have a note that I've been honest with them.


Graham

It isn't a question of honest although I do see it can be taken that way from the thread title.

It was originally about an opinion as to whether a solar panel was an accessory or a modification.
By adding a single screw to the original build is a modification in the strictest view of the word, but in a world that used to practice some 'common sense' a screw would not be a modification.

After all the views presented within this thread I declared the solar panels as a modification (one of which was fitted in Germany and maybe when the MH was built?). The fact that immediately Frank Pickles said that it didn't count as a modification in line with my own views justified my opinion in this insurers case. But due to the discussions here I will forever declare any alteration or addition even if I think it is silly to.

Another insurer or broker may have a different view, for example SAGA who unbelievably to me have to refer a solar panel to their underwriters as they are not sure if it is a modification or not.

Again my view of 'modification' is performance enhancing, a bike rack does not not enhance performance for example, nor does a solar panel.
As mentioned elsewhere, when you give your estimated value it probably includes the value of all accessories added but if you alter the performance that is an additional piece of information that surely an insurer would like to know as an additional fact.

But immaterial of each persons opinion of what constitutes an accessory or a modification it is obviously best to declare everything that is added, some insurers will want to know, some wont.

To emphasise the point, it is not a case of being dishonest rather an opinion as to what counts as an accessory and what counts as a modification, just an individual's opinion.



.
 

cydersyd

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Isn't it amazing that this thread began in October and not one insurance company or an employee thereof has yet offered an opinion.

Could it be in their interest to say additional items such as solar panels, tv domes, top boxes or tap washers do or do not constitute an increase in premium.

There could be an increase in business for them if the told us their requirements.
 

pappajohn

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Insurers always ask you for your valuation - not the cost of your vehicle.

I am sure most of us give a figure higher than that paid - in full knowledge that the insurer would not pay out based on your valuation - but at an agreed market value of a replacement

So why do they ask us for the value in the first place?



Obvious really....in case you value it, unwittingly, at less than its current market value

you buy a vehicle at £5k less than its true worth and quote that price as the value to the insurers.....they'll put you straight on their Christmas card list :winky:

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GJH

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Graham

It isn't a question of honest although I do see it can be taken that way from the thread title.

It was originally about an opinion as to whether a solar panel was an accessory or a modification.
By adding a single screw to the original build is a modification in the strictest view of the word, but in a world that used to practice some 'common sense' a screw would not be a modification.

After all the views presented within this thread I declared the solar panels as a modification (one of which was fitted in Germany and maybe when the MH was built?). The fact that immediately Frank Pickles said that it didn't count as a modification in line with my own views justified my opinion in this insurers case. But due to the discussions here I will forever declare any alteration or addition even if I think it is silly to.

Another insurer or broker may have a different view, for example SAGA who unbelievably to me have to refer a solar panel to their underwriters as they are not sure if it is a modification or not.

Again my view of 'modification' is performance enhancing, a bike rack does not not enhance performance for example, nor does a solar panel.
As mentioned elsewhere, when you give your estimated value it probably includes the value of all accessories added but if you alter the performance that is an additional piece of information that surely an insurer would like to know as an additional fact.

But immaterial of each persons opinion of what constitutes an accessory or a modification it is obviously best to declare everything that is added, some insurers will want to know, some wont.

To emphasise the point, it is not a case of being dishonest rather an opinion as to what counts as an accessory and what counts as a modification, just an individual's opinion.
In my post I was using the word "honest" strictly in connection with the specific case I mentioned. I agree that, as you put it, it is obviously best to declare everything that is added. Semantics really but both could be described as "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth".

When our van was written off 11 months ago we were treated very well by our insurers (Highway/LV through Frank Pickles) but, as rainbow chasers points out, some companies can be less than sympathetic.

Looking at it from a slightly different point of view, I'm sure all of us would want to know that if our property suffered damage then the person at fault was fully covered. In our case the write-off was not our fault at all and the people who collided with it (Asda employee and spouse of a Churchill Insurance employee) were properly insured so there was no problem with us being paid. However, if an accident occurs and the person at fault has not declared everything properly then the insurance company might just refuse to pay, leaving the innocent party with hassle at the very least to obtain recompense.
 
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I have renewed our van insurance and was going through the renewal. We came to the any modifications question and I remembered this thread. I thought well let's tell them about the solar panel, awning etc. I was told they were not interested in any mods to he habitation part of the motorhome just the fiat part.

We are insured with Caravanguard.

Sonja
 

Jaws

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As someone who know nothing about mechanics and the like ( :Blush::ROFLMAO: ) my van is exactly how I bought it from the dealer.. I have NO idea if the myriad of mods is standard or not as I did not buy it new so as far as I am concerned it is standard !

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eddie

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Well here we go again, we can add this one to the list as well
1: Gas Attacks Myth or Fact?
2: Towing a car on a "A" frame
3: Complete and honest disclosure

All I know is a good mate of mine is in the insurance industry has always told me that when asked a question, not to tell the truth is wasting my money on insurance so I'd be better off keeping my money. I personally don't think that I would run to tell an insurer every time I did something, but I would always answer any question (and subsequent questions honestly) I believe the expression is "in the up most good faith"

I know that lots of people justify trying to screw the insurance industry, because they're "robbing bastards that always try to worm their way out of paying"

I know from the amount of times people ask us (Van Bitz) to word things on reports and estimates, that a large number of us think it OK to try and screw insurance Companies.

I suspect that some, get quotes from many, and end up going for the cheapest, thinking that they have the level of cover from the most expensive and then when there is a claim, and it is refused cry like a baby:cry::cry::cry:

To be honest, again personally, I have never had a claim refused where the liability fell within what was covered on the policy. To be fair I had an early lesson when prosecuted at the tender age of 21 for driving with no insurance. I had a cover note for 30 days, which had to be extended twice for some reason. Some three months after taking out the insurance I received my Insurance certificate and chucked it in the drawer with my other paper work. I was stopped and checked and asked to produce my documents (I think we used to call them a "three day wonder")

I duly went to the station and low and behold my name wasn't actually on the certificate. End of a long story I went to court, proved that I had paid for the insurance, showed the cover notes that proved I was insured and then got a nice apology from the Magistrate that obviously I thought that I was insured, I had paid, but "technically" I wasn't covered so the heavy fine would be waived and a nominal £0.05 would be levied:thumb: However:whatthe: I was "technically guilty so I received an endorsement:Eeek:

As for professional installation, our insurance renewal has just been "re-quoted" and for our various liabilities, both to our staff and our customers our road risks, and the Van Bitz buildings, we're paying over £11,000 :Eeek: So perhaps insurance companies are happier that dangerous bits are installed by some one they can sue the arse off if something goes wrong:whatthe:
 
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