Hymer electrics major? problem and a condundrum (1 Viewer)

[gus-lopez]

Good point jetlag03, but I don't know the answer



Under the driver's seat at the rear of the EBL, see the following photos -

The electrical set-up with the seat removed. Notice one of the silver screw heads is rust brown (bottom right of center), all the others still have their original coating

View attachment 162671


From the opposite side with the auto box computer moved to one side and the front support bar for the computer removed

View attachment 162672


Close-up of the 10mm2 Black + and Brown - cables originating at the rear of the EBL running directly to the 2 hab batteries. There is a 50A fuse in the line as the cables emerge in hab battery box, this fuse was not blown. The second 10mm2 Brown cable and the matching Red cable (charging cables for the starter battery) were singed but the insulation for these had not been damaged.

View attachment 162673



A clearer photo showing the cables had about 50% burnt away and the fuse didn't blow, is it too high a value? Also have to say that for some reason it looks as though this has happened over a long period of time, and the fact that it had only travelled 8000 miles before we bought it meant that the chafing had happened slowly. Only after trying to find the reason for the starter battery to suddenly expire did I gently try to move the cables under the seat and saw the puff of smoke.

In reality we got lucky, if this had made a good contact with earth while connected to the batteries while we were travelling or another time it could have been a fire that would have been hard to stop as you can't access this area quickly if at all in a hurry.

View attachment 162676

That is the screw for the third support bar that has damaged the cable & gradually shorted it out due to vibration/movement.

 

[johnandi]

OK, next step and possibly a very stupid question.

Wanting to get this endless saga just right I read the Schaudt manual for the DT 201 control panel in regards to resetting the control panel after new batteries (or even just full disconnection of same batteries), it quotes this.

After exchanging the living area battery, the nominal capacity must be reset


in the battery display. This must be carried out even when the capacities of


the new and old batteries are identical. This resets the control and display


panel to the “New battery value” for the max. usable capacity (80% of nominal


capacity).

If you have a 100A battery, do you set it at 100A or do you set it to 80A? The last sentence is ambiguous and suggests either value to me. In the past I have always entered the 'nominal' value as being what is theoretically available but in practice knowing it is a value less than that advertised.

Yesterday afternoon I entered 180A as the value, on completion a figure I had seen before a half of that appeared on the screen, 90A. This happened a few times before but would always reset to the full amount eventually.

Yesterday afternoon during the first hour of reconnection the value shown while the new batteries are being charged reduced from 90A to 3A and there it sits. The volts are ok at 14.4v and 13.7/8v when on float. I have written to Udo Lang about this amperage problem and wait for a reply, but just getting back to basics, what value do you enter as the 'nominal' value when fitting or re-starting hab batteries?

Thanks

Hi VeeVee,
I've had the same problem and found and printed out this info (I keep it in the van cos our display annoyingly resets itself every now and again) from the 'Hymer Club International' website. It works!
http://www.hymerclub.co.uk/hcitips.htm and follow the link to: "Leisure Battery Capacities on Display DT201'

 

[veevee]

Thanks johnandi, tried it as written but first difference was the after opening the battery menu it showed 180A Max, click the menu button again and it showed 180A Nom, so the controller isn't calculating the usable battery power. Went all the way through 3 times, twice with the 230v power off and the ? marks which are on the power available (it started as written with the default to 50% so 90A with a ? behind it, the power us below it showed -50A with a ? behind it.
Within a few seconds the 90A started reducing 1 and 2 Amps at a time, just as yesterday. It will probably as yesterday end up at 3A again.

Tried to remove the ? so turned on a couple of lamps and a fan but the ? marks remain.

I know the answer is out there so I'll keep researching, but have very limited time at the moment so may give it a break to get other stuff done for a while and to get a fresh perspective.

Thank you very much again, any other suggestions very welcome.

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[Cavs]

Tried to remove the ? so turned on a couple of lamps and a fan but the ? marks remain.

I had the same issue with my Schaudt EBL and control panel. I think the '?' disappears of its own accord after a few use/charge cycles. Mine did anyway, and everything seems OK and stable.
My display also shows a capacity of 144 Ah, which is precisely 80% of the 180 Ah capacity of the two batteries. Unfortunately, I can't remember which figure I put in but I think it was 180.

 

[JeanLuc]

I have an older control panel (IT992) so I am not familiar with yours. Have you switched the EBL to lead-acid yet? I remember you said it was still set at lead-gel a few posts ago. Perhaps the control panel is sensitive to this setting? 80% would be the default usable power for gel batteries rather than 50% which you would want to set for flooded lead-acid such as the LFD90s.

 

[veevee]

About 2 weeks ago had to change a faulty starter battery and in the course of trying to diagnose the starter battery problem switched the entire system off and on a couple of times disconnected all battery terminals, hab and starter.
The control panel had to be reset each time and it behaved similar to how I described above with the exception that when the battery capacity was re-set - then 160A for the previous Gel batteries - the completed screen showed the default value of 50% after each re-set (just as the manual states it will and is the correct sequence) of 80A. It remained at 80A until the batteries had run through a number of cycles, more of this later.
The exception this time with 2 x 90A lead acid batteries is the value is set at 180A, the completed re-set screen shows the value as 50% / 90A but then over the next hour reduces in amp or two stages down to 3A, it is at 3A / -50A / 13.7v /13.8v now after 36 hours of being re-set.

JeanLuc, I did re-set the battery type at the EBL after fitting the 2 new wet batteries but before making the start up connections, so not saying that the EBL doesn't like lead acid as a setting but it wasn't operated with a Gel setting with lead acid fitted.

Going back a couple of weeks: About 24 hours after fitting the new starter battery we drove directly to northern Holland, the starting performance of the starter battery improved noticeably. At some point while in Holland the control screen showed the 100% value of the hab batteries, the figure of 160A and not the 80A that had shown for a couple of days. Before we left the UK the 50% value was the only figure it would show even though it was on hook up for 24 hours, I'm starting to think that the EBL isn't powerful enough to fully charge the batteries from new or mis-reads that the batteries are fully charged?
I have read somewhere that a larger workshop battery charger should be used to pre-charge new batteries, something with an output of 30A or more. The EBL has a max of 18A where the vehicle alternator has I think? a capacity of 160A, a massive difference even if it is not that number.

My problem at the moment is to understand why after a re-set of the control panel the 50% value of 90A reduces quickly after a re-set to 3A. We are 3 weeks away from using our MH again.

Thanks Cavs and thanks again Philip

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[JeanLuc]

Have you heard back from Udo yet? I would rely on him at this stage.

p.s. I'm quite glad I have an old fashioned simple control panel. It just has two needle meters to show voltage in both battery banks, waste and fresh water and charge/discharge current in amps. I have thought about fitting a 'singing and dancing' battery computer in addition (such as a Votronic or Victron) but so far I have resisted the temptation to spend £130 or thereabouts.

 

[veevee]

With you on simplicity, if I could retro fit a simpler system I would.

No haven't heard from Udo at all, but happy to wait as he may be busy / on holiday / or off sick. In the mean time I'll start to read in detail through the tens of different media listings for 'faulty / help with DT 201' , they pop up everywhere if you start to search. A couple of articles a night as bedtime reading should cure any insomnia.

 

[JeanLuc]

You have got the DT201 manual haven't you?

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[veevee]

Yes I do have, why do you ask or what am I missing?

 

[JeanLuc]

Just wondered as I downloaded a copy from the Schaudt website some time ago for interest. I seem to remember a funster having some problems at the time but I cannot remember the details. I was going to offer to send it/upload it if you did not already have a copy. I was just reading through pages 13 and 14 but don't pretend to understand any more than you already do.

 

[veevee]

Thanks for your interest, I'm sure that it will all make sense in the end but make take more effort than it warrants. A few days ago I skimmed a few forum postings and saw that apart from the reducing amperage situation that may be unique to our MH, the other problems with re-setting this type of control panel have been experienced by quite a few others so there may be a pattern to this?
My last effort for the moment is to completely disconnect the batteries again and re-connect, after that it's down to reading and waiting for UL.

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[veevee]

Re-connecting the batteries didn't result in any change at all, but... in the last 2 days the hab batteries have equalised with the starter battery, now all 3 are at 13.8v. Also the amps output status reading has changed from -50A to -3.3A, it's all moving in the right direction.

Udo Lang of Schaudt has now replied twice, they appear to have an idea of what creates these problems and how to repair the faulty part(s) . With his permission I print his answer in full, hope it will help others who have problems with the Elektroblock EBL 101 and control panel DT 201.

" Anyway, this is not the issue for the -50A showing.
I think the reason is a broken cut off switch at the EBL or on the print board nearby the cut off switch a bad connection.

Maybe we should exchange the cut off switch here in Schaudt company.

Or you can try with a print board cleaner (not any oily spray!!!) to clean the switch.
For this you must remove the EBL. Then you put the front side up and fill some cleaner into the switch where you switch on an off.
Then switch several times and use some air to press the liquid out of the switch.
Normally the switch will operate for years again.

The cleaner you need is LR 02 printboard cleaner. "

As a follow up question I asked as it appears that the batteries are charging normally (by checking the voltages in charge and load conditions), could I do any harm to the electronics by using the camper for 4 or 5 days to visit the 24 Hours of Le Mans in mid June, again here is his answer

" I think you can spent some days off with the camper without any trouble.
Just ignore the wrong indication as long you have 12,5V or more on the leisure battery. "

Our plan is this. Travel to Le Mans with the 2 Gel batteries that were removed, to use as spares (these were not faulty or showing they were at the end of their life, but as they were up to 12 years old and I wanted to fit 3 batteries for a new solar installation I had to fit 3 same type/age batteries). These would be for back-up only as for up to 5 days we can't charge our hab batteries as the solar will not be fitted until the rest of the system is working 100%. There is no EHU at this campground.

On returning from Le Mans then remove the EBL and send across to Schaudt. They will test all functions and replace parts as required then ship it back to me. In the time it is away the solar equipment will be fitted but not connected. Providing on refitting the repaired EBL all is good, then to connect the solar installation, phew!
We're going for a full check of the unit as we hope to travel for several months at a time soon and want everything to be tip top.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement