Help me buy a fiver...?

Discussion in 'Fifth Wheelers' started by David Brown, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. David Brown

    David Brown Read Only Funster

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    Hello,

    I've been thinking of buying a Fifth wheeler for a short while and wondered if you'd be able to help.

    I have some general questions regarding the whole scenario and would appreciate any help and advice you could give me.

    I have tried researching on the internet but find it a bit confusing and I thought who better to ask than people who are already doing it.

    If I may I'll just lay down some questions and see where it takes us?

    I'm looking for an AMERICAN fiver of approx. 30 foot with a single large slide probably but maybe two slides if the right vehicle has them.


    1. What sort of fuel economy can be expected from the towing pick-up when towing and when not?
    2. How much does insurance cost?
    3. What licence category do I need to make sure I have?
    4. What provision do you have, insurance wise, for personal belongings in the fiver (home contents, if you will)?

    Thanks for reading :Smile:

    David
     
  2. Jim

    Jim Ringleader

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    Hi David, I have never owned or towed a fiver, there are plenty here that do. I would ask a couple more questions.

    What about recovery, can the unit be recovered by the regular breakdown organisations in the UK and Europe

    How easy are they to park up? Some of the best entertainment I have had for ages is watching them park in tight spots, but they may have been newbies.

    Drive through pitches are perfect for 5ers, but how often are you restricted by the need to be able to drop it or hook up, needing all that room in front of an already long rig.
     
  3. Landy lover

    Landy lover Funster

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    Hi Fuel economy so much depends on the tug you are using - I know people who get 10 to the gallon on yanks and others who get 25 to 28 on euro tugs we get about 26 mpg on Landy

    Insurance will again so much depend on where you park it and whether or not you fulltime expect £350 pa upwards I would say
    License is the same as for a 7.5 tonne lorry so depends when you took your test.

    Insurance - I would suggest you pay for replacement value on the 5 er if it is new and do not rely on the home insurance to cover contents - some of them can argue I have heard.

    Jims point of length is a good one ours is 27ft and having driven artics in a previous life it does not worry me but many struggle with them so would suggest a training course is in order if you are at all worried. 27ft is the maximum allowed on many campsites.

    Hook up - you always need to be in a straight line with the trailer to hook up unlike a caravan so expect to be 'on the road'at about 40ft or more again depending on the tug.

    Hope that helps
     
  4. ehuplad

    ehuplad Read Only Funster

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    Mileage wise our Dodge ram 3500 Heavy duty pulling a 32ft, 5.2 ton trailer around 15MPG. Empty around about 22MPG on motorway 28 MPG.

    Insurance truck and trailer around £600

    Our rig weighs around 9 ton, so i did a trailer test to remove the 107 restriction on your licence this allows up to 12 ton.
     
  5. Wheelie

    Wheelie Read Only Funster

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    Hi David
    I have just traded my extreme lite 5er in for a springdale 523, 29 ft 3100kgs twin slide from Niche marketing in lincoln, i should be collecting end of march, i tow with a dodge ram 1500 5.7 V8 Hemi, im getting about 15 mpg UK 12 MPG US, Although Landy lover is far superior in knowledge of 5ers one point i would like to make is that i have often hitched my 5er from all sorts of different angles so not always have to be straight. I passed my test in 1984 so i can drive unto 7.5 tonne, my insurance cost me £300.00 per annum for the extreme lite which cost me 13k to buy, i dare say my new one will be a lot dearer as its more expensive to buy

    Good luck

    Neil
     
  6. David Brown

    David Brown Read Only Funster

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    Hello,

    Thanks for the replies - it's heartening to see as detailed answers as these.

    So insurance at £600 for both the truck and fiver seems okay (I understand that individual circumstances vary)

    Ehuplad - 22 mpg empty and 15 mpg towing seems good - I could live with that. Better mpg towing than many a-class RV's so that's okay.

    Can someone explain more about the licence requirements?

    Also, the personal effects insurance bothers me, what happens if the the lot goes up? Or if one of the very expensive toys is taken? Do fiver owners that fulltime (and motorhomers for that matter) just accept the risk? Or is there a way of sorting the insurance?

    Thanks again for the replies :Smile:

    David
     
  7. Ant&Debs

    Ant&Debs Read Only Funster

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    C1E Licence


    Hi ehuplad

    Not wishing to hijack the thread, as i understand the c1e Licence or rather as i read it on the DVLA site, once you have the 107 restriction removed it indeed does allow 12 ton. but it also says that the trailer (laden) cannot weigh more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle!

    or am I wrong!

    The reason I ask is that we have a wildcat 5ver Gross Weight 5223 kgs and a GMC 2500HD Gross Weight 4173 kgs

    I have CE (HGV1) and DE (PSV1) which covers me for this size vehicle I also have C1E but for some reason this comes with the 107 restriction(ie 8250 kgs)

    So if i didnt have CE (HGV) but had the 107 restriction lifted off the C1E i would still not be legally allowed to drive our rig as the trailer weighs more that the towing vehicle?

    Ant
     
  8. Landy lover

    Landy lover Funster

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    I agree it is possible to hitch at any angle but if you push a shade too hard on hitching all the pressure is on the front legs rather than on the brakes as you try and push the trailer sideways - result if the legs dig in is bent landing legs I have seen it done on a 40 ft trailer so would no want to risk damage to my 5' er.

    Re contents insurance you should be able to take out full contents insurance with your trailer insurance - if for any reason they refuse then unless you are full timing you should be able to add it to your house insurance
     
  9. Wheelie

    Wheelie Read Only Funster

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    Good point and noted

    Neil :thumb:
     
  10. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    its my understanding the weight rules are different between a PIN hitch and a DRAWBAR (A frame) hitch.

    towing vehicles max train weight applies to a fiver.....not weight percentages.

    licence....if test passed pre '97, you will have C1E with a max train weight of 8250kg.
    test passed post '97 you need to take another test (new C1E) to allow trailer towing up to 12000kg train weight.

    if you need to take the C1E test, consider going the full monty and getting a CE...that will allow you to drive artic vehicles up to 44000kg.

    edit...sorry Ant, the last bit about licences was aimed at the o/p...not you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  11. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    Having asked the question many times on the licence required for a 5th wheel, I have come to the conclusion (because it is the majority) that if you passed your test pre 97 then your B+E entilement will suffice.

    I used to tow a 35' in the 80's but I have a class 1, I did ask several traffic cops I new on the motorway at that time and they all said Rosie could drive it on her car licence.

    I have never trained any one for C1+E or C+E for towing a fiver, although we have done many reversing and familliarisation courses for owners.

    This is not touting for business but I would recomend any one without experience have 4 hours of training with a recognised training school.

    I hope this helps

    All the best Rick.
     
  12. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    Hi Rick,
    cat B only covers you up to 3500kg gross vehicle weight and many american trucks are more than 3500kg.

    Category
    Description
    Minimum age
    B
    Motor vehicles with a MAM of up to 3,500 kg, no more than eight passenger seats, with or without a trailer - weighing no more than 750 kg
    17*
    B
    As category B but with a trailer weighing more than 750 kg. The total weight of the vehicle and the trailer together can’t weigh more than 3,500 kg. The weight of the trailer, when fully loaded, can’t weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle
    17*
    B auto
    As category B with automatic transmission
    17*
    B+E
    As category B but with a heavier trailer that isn't covered in the descriptions for category B
    17

    *Age 16 if you are currently getting Disability Living Allowance at the higher rate (mobility component).
    Example of category B with a trailer weighing over 750 kg: Motor vehicle with an unladen weight of 1,500 kg and a maximum weight of 2,000 kg towing a fully loaded trailer with a weight of 1,500 kg – total weight 3500.
    Example of category B+E: Motor vehicle with a MAM up to 3,500 kg towing a trailer of any weight over 750 kg.
     
  13. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    Sorry John I stated cat B+E obtained prior 97 tow vehicle up to 3500 kg trailer i.e. 5th wheel dosn't go on the tounge weight of the tow bar but the weight imposed on the 5th wheel I can not remember these weights off the top of my head but a B+E licence would suffice if the prime mover is under 3.5 over 3.5 but under 7.5 then it would come into C1+E I will try and find out what the imposed weight is and post later.

    Hope that clears it up a bit I always seem to not make myself clear when writing, perhaps cuz I am a gobby bugger:Rofl1:

    All the best Rick
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  14. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    Not quite a licence obtained pre 97 will carry a 107 restriction which limit the combined weigt to 8.250 a full C1+E (which would require another test) will give a combined weight of 12ton, a C+E will over ride the restriction as long as the licence holder retains his C+E.

    What I am unsure of, as I can not remember, the the weight allowance is the imposed weight on a fith wheel, if I get time tomorrow I will check it and post it here, it is not something I deal with daily and I have so many weights dimensions eu regs etc. that I have to know, I tend to not think about the ones I don't.

    If you get confused feel free to call me or post a question on here, you may find some answers on our web site www.dataacademy.co.uk

    Hope that clears it up a bit.

    All the best Rick.
     
  15. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    according to my quote from Gov.uk, B catagory only allows up to 3500kg prime mover
    B+E is 3500kg plus trailer of any weight.....up to train weight of tug.

    my point was many US pickups are over 3500kg MAM so a B cat licence isnt the one needed.

    not sure but i think the load on the bed is 18% of trailer gross.
     
  16. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    Agreed as I said in the post above prime mover over 3.5 will need C1+E.
    But a lot of people now use Navaras as prime movers well under 3.5 ton as are most american's rated 1500 most 2500 and above are over 3.5ton.

    All the best Rick
     
  17. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    Sorry John just re read my post didn't say what I meant did I:Doh: :Doh: :Doh:

    feel free to call me a plonker

    All the best Rick
     
  18. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    yep ! re-read it and didnt realise there was(nt) a full stop between sentences Rick :Wink: :thumb: read it all as one. :Doh:
     
  19. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    Getting late mate past my bed time :Rofl1: :Rofl1:

    All the best must have a drink when we eventually meet

    Rick.
     
  20. ehuplad

    ehuplad Read Only Funster

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    Hi the way it was explained to me the 107 restriction can be removed by doing a test 7.5ton truck and trailer, once past restriction lifted.

    The weight issue trailer weights 5.2 ton Truck around 3.8ton.
    When trailer is connected trailer only weights 4.3ton and truck weights 4.7ton. Trailer puts about 900kgs on truck. :thumb::thumb::thumb:
     

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