Habitation batteries, lead acid, or gel type (1 Viewer)

skylinersi

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another maybe daft question, again after reading a post on here, so:

it seems a few people have had their hab batteries fail, from cooking themselves to catching fire !?!?!?,

so i'd love to know what peeps have fitted and which have failed?

I assume that the standard lead acid type are the offenders?????

Our manual (2017 adria twin) says for habitation area batteries, lead acid must not be used, gel type batteries must be used.

so whats the consensus folks?

thanks again for helping me, and probably others who wonder the same!

si
 

Camping Gaza

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Lead acid are brilliant batteries, safe and reliable as long as you are not a numpty, look after them and they are fixed down, in battery boxes fused and VENTED. ( I have 3 in a bank, 320AH all lead acid cheapest I could find on the net)

Gels can be chucked about, mounted upside down, whatever, because they cant leak acid because its a GEL, a paste if you will, but still cannot be abused through deep discharge or over charging (like the lead acid) They are a lot more expensive too.

You CAN cook a gel, and by overcharging (you really have to be a numpty to do it tho) make it get very hot indeed. It will swell and buckle and if done long enough catch fire.

If you got money and no where to place a vent tube from a lead acid, then gels are very good.... fit and (sort of) forget.

Don't be scared of batteries, just dont let them short out directly on the terminals when fitting ie with a spanner or cable, as you will have a fire, and that applies to any high current battery.

Oh yes make sure your fitted charger can charge GEL batteries as they need a different charge voltage, I can't remember if its higher or lower but, and If you have already got a GEL fitted, don't mix GEL with lead acid as your on board charger would be set to charge GELs, so could overcharge lead acid if mixed. (if GELs need a higher charge that is)

(confused yet?)
 
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funflair

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If your manual says GEL then stick with GEL, Exide equipment GEL are good batteries.

Martin

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The Sonnenschein gel battery in mine lasted from 2002 - 2015 before needing replacement. Zero maintenance required except occasional EHU charging.

It ran the compressor fridge, and Eberspacher diesel heater, which uses a lot of amps on start up.
 
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jessthedog

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it seems a few people have had their hab batteries fail, from cooking themselves to catching fire !?!?!?,

so i'd love to know what peeps have fitted and which have failed?

I assume that the standard lead acid type are the offenders?????

Mine cooked. Was red hot and gassing off and possibly bulging.
It was a Banner AGM. I don't know the history of the battery, but it was 5 years old.

The top of the battery had a glued paper Banner advert on it. When I took that off, the distilled water screw caps, had 'DO NOT OPEN' on them, so I assume it was supposed to be maintenance free!
I checked the cells and they were completely dry.
Never knowingly owning an AGM battery, I wouldn't know if you could top them up either.

I was under the impression that it was a sealed battery, but lucky enough, it was connected to a vent pipe, going underneath the van.

I have replaced with 2 lead acid type.

I personally think that all habitation batteries should have a heat or H2S type sensor fitted, which would warn owners that the batteries could be getting into a dangerous state.
Smoke and CO alarms are fitted, so I think battery alarms should be the natural safety progression.
 
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skylinersi

skylinersi

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Mine cooked. Was red hot and gassing off and possibly bulging.
It was a Banner AGM. I don't know the history of the battery, but it was 5 years old.

The top of the battery had a glued paper Banner advert on it. When I took that off, the distilled water screw caps, had 'DO NOT OPEN' on them, so I assume it was supposed to be maintenance free!
I checked the cells and they were completely dry.
Never knowingly owning an AGM battery, I wouldn't know if you could top them up either.

I was under the impression that it was a sealed battery, but lucky enough, it was connected to a vent pipe, going underneath the van.

I have replaced with 2 lead acid type.

I personally think that all habitation batteries should have a heat or H2S type sensor fitted, which would warn owners that the batteries could be getting into a dangerous state.
Smoke and CO alarms are fitted, so I think battery alarms should be the natural safety progression.
an alarm for that does seem sensible(y)

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magicsurfbus

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I've been looking into this in detail recently because I want to upgrade the factory fit batteries on a new MH, and there's a lot of contradictory advice about, including on this forum.

Some types of Lead Acid batteries will vent inflammable gases during normal operation so they shouldn't be stored in the cab or habitation area, but they can go in external vented containers, for example in the floor of the boot, venting gases to the outside air below the vehicle. Some Lead Acid batteries are completely sealed. Gel batteries were originally developed to prevent acid spillage during an accident.

It would seem to me that the bottom line is what charging system you have fitted, and Gel and AGM batteries require a different charging configuration to Lead Acid. Some MHs offer different charging options, and some (like mine with Lead Acid as the default) don't. Matching the wrong battery type to the wrong charger will probably shorten the battery's life one way or the other, by under or over charging. The battery might work with the wrong charger, but it won't last as long as it would with the right charger. That's my understanding anyway.

Consequently I'm looking at upgrading to a higher capacity sealed Lead Acid battery rather than anything else, because that's what my charging system supports. If that's not enough and I decide to go down the AGM route later on it looks to me like my chargers (solar and 230v) would need replacing.

The most coherent and balanced advice I've seen so far, recommended by another Funster, is on this website: http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/
 
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All batteries, like anything else, can fail. However, depending on your pocket, buy either gel or lead acid without any concern about them failing, they are all built to last if treated right.
At a symposium I attended in Peterborough, people who knew what they were talking about advised to buy the heaviest (by weight) lead acid battery you could afford. They backed their argument up with pictures showing the different lead structure inside the battery. The thinner lead parts were less able to cope with constant charge/discharge and buckled, whereas the thicker (and heavier and more expensive) lead gave longer and more reliable performance. As to which make is best, it depends on who is selling the batteries. RoadPro sell Banner batteries and commend them, they are also fitted as standard in many motorhomes, which may mean they get them at a large discount. My advice is to buy heavy.
 
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funflair

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I've been looking into this in detail recently because I want to upgrade the factory fit batteries on a new MH, and there's a lot of contradictory advice about, including on this forum.

Some types of Lead Acid batteries will vent inflammable gases during normal operation so they shouldn't be stored in the cab or habitation area, but they can go in external vented containers, for example in the floor of the boot, venting gases to the outside air below the vehicle. Some Lead Acid batteries are completely sealed. Gel batteries were originally developed to prevent acid spillage during an accident.

It would seem to me that the bottom line is what charging system you have fitted, and Gel and AGM batteries require a different charging configuration to Lead Acid. Some MHs offer different charging options, and some (like mine with Lead Acid as the default) don't. Matching the wrong battery type to the wrong charger will probably shorten the battery's life one way or the other, by under or over charging. The battery might work with the wrong charger, but it won't last as long as it would with the right charger. That's my understanding anyway.

Consequently I'm looking at upgrading to a higher capacity sealed Lead Acid battery rather than anything else, because that's what my charging system supports. If that's not enough and I decide to go down the AGM route later on it looks to me like my chargers (solar and 230v) would need replacing.

The most coherent and balanced advice I've seen so far, recommended by another Funster, is on this website: http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/
If you are happy with what you read there, don't read anything else as for sure it will be contradictory, the more you read the more confused you get.
The advice from @rosalan is a good start though, go heavy as you can find.

Martin

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Lenny HB

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Replaced my failed AGM's with Gel's, they are performing much better than the AGM's ever did. In my last van the Gel's were still performing like new at nearly 6 years old.
Sonnenschein Gel's are a bit cheaper than Exide and they make the Exide ones anyway.
 
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two

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I’d guess that the reason your manual tells you to use Gel batteries is because there is no venting. I’d expect the charger to be capable of dealing with either Wet (flooded) or Gel batteries but Gel are better suited to slow and deep discharge. Unless you plan to include a heavy duty inverter, I’d be happy to continue with Gel. Make sure that any replacement will fit the space available and that you have the payload if you’re considering a larger bank.
 
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I use sealed lead acid, largely because they are cheaper and the batteries are in an outside locker. The last ones lasted around 8 years.
My last MH had a single gel battery and that was fine too.
The built in charger is a pretty basic float charger so not particularly good for any sort of battery, but they are mainly charged from solar, and the solar charger is an intelligent multistage charger that can be programmed to any battery type.

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DL42846

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I have just up graded my leisure battery to a GEL one. I also had to change both the charger and the solar panel controller as they did not have a GEL setting.
The lead acid battery which was in my MH was coming up for 8 years old and still appeared to work.
As I only run on the one battery and we rarely go on EHU as we wild camp most of the time I thought I would go for a GEL. They are more expensive but according to all the paperwork should last much longer. The one I have just fitted is guaranteed 6 years.
Lead acid batteries can start to go off after 300 to 500 recycles, AGM start to go off after 500 to 800 recycles. The GEL one I have is supposed to be good for 1500 recycles.
I haven't had a GEL battery before so it's more of a case of suck it and see.
There is nothing wrong with lead acid batteries as mentioned above mine has been in the MH for almost 8 years and has been trouble free. I could probably have got a bit longer out of it.
GEL batteries require a different charge rate to lead acid. I can't remember the exact numbers but its something like a GEL battery starts off with 14.8 v charge going in , then drops down to 14.2V and takes longer to fully recharge.
Acid batteries start off around 14.8 also then drop down to 14.6 V but recharge quicker.
GEL batteries can discharge down to 20% where as Lead acid batteries discharge to something like 50% or higher.
If you have been told to only use GEL batteries its probably due to the charger and solar panel settings. And could also be as mentioned early here somewhere no breather. Most of the new campers have safety fusees in them so I wouldn't loose any sleep worrying if your batteries are going to catch fire. Just enjoy your motor home.
 
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sallylillian

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If you are happy with what you read there, don't read anything else as for sure it will be contradictory, the more you read the more confused you get.
The advice from @rosalan is a good start though, go heavy as you can find.

Martin
When we were boating Martin, there was a saying that if you look at enough weather forecasts you will eventually find one that convinces you stay in the harbour!
 
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two

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I'm unsure what a battery 'cycle' actually is. OK for making comparisons but something I don't think can be measured, so checked.

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DL42846

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I'm unsure what a battery 'cycle' actually is. OK for making comparisons but something I don't think can be measured, so checked.
I believe the cycles refer to the number of times a battery can be recharged before they start to go off/deteriorate.

This is the one I went for. If you look at the other types of batteries they have both Acid, AGM and GEL's they show in the spec the number of recycles they should be able to handle. How accurate they only god knows. Seems to be a bit of a mine field once you start looking at batteries these days.

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-110ah-leoch-powabloc-tubular-gel-battery/
 
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two

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The problem with most marketing information is that it's clouded by smoke 'n mirrors. Misleading information presented as fact. There are very few salespeople who actually understand the technology they're selling yet will merrily repeat something they've heard if it suits their position, even though they have nothing to substantiate it.
Cycles are meaningless (but there may be a definition, somewhere). If you're on hook-up or receiving solar, the battery could be going through a small cycle of some sort every time you use some power. If a cycle is from fully charged to 50% drained, say, what improvement in "cycle life" might one expect if the cycles consume only 25% of capacity?
A minefield, as said.
 
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sallylillian

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The problem with most marketing information is that it's clouded by smoke 'n mirrors. Misleading information presented as fact. There are very few salespeople who actually understand the technology they're selling yet will merrily repeat something they've heard if it suits their position, even though they have nothing to substantiate it.
Cycles are meaningless (but there may be a definition, somewhere). If you're on hook-up or receiving solar, the battery could be going through a small cycle of some sort every time you use some power. If a cycle is from fully charged to 50% drained, say, what improvement in "cycle life" might one expect if the cycles consume only 25% of capacity?
A minefield, as said.
The Victron battery monitor now reports battery charge cycles, I do not know the exact science but it is what is considered a complete charge, how far down it has to be etc I cannot say but logic says that it cannot just be every blip.

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