gross train weight and toad

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by robinmclaren, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. robinmclaren

    robinmclaren Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    coventry , warwickshire
    i was advised by a associate (dvla) that toading a car would exceed gross train weight and therefore be illegal , he does have a reason why everything is illegal

    facts bessacar e745 max gross weight 3.5t, max train weight 5.5t, rav4 toad 1.5t

    3.5+1.5=5t ,max train weight 5.5t

    explained this and the fact all 4 wheels brake so is a 4 wheeled braked trailer , then he is not happy that i drive this on my car licence , which clearly states up to and including 7.5t , which i have hired in the past and he tries to advise me that i may get fined if pulled over

    my ka was illegal on braked a frame, my peruoda on unbraked frame was illegal , ohh nooo i am a criminal !!!!

    will try to avoid conversation with him again as depresses me

    lets hope this t......r doesnt pull you over , he will impound your mh, your toad, your pushbikes, your wife, your children , and then you will chainsaw his head off !!!!
    sorry really did wind me up

    its a sad world when you have to find a reason to persecute the people who pay your wages when there are real criminals just waiting to be lifted
     
  2. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,472
    Likes Received:
    16,932
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    assuming you have an 'E' catagory on your C or B licence, which you obviously do, then the guy is one step up from a jobsworth......he's a knobhead and needs to read up on trailer law and towing weights.
     
  3. robinmclaren

    robinmclaren Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    coventry , warwickshire
    oh yes i think our equivelent of the welsh plod who arrested every one ( didnt he taser himself as well ) , we can all read books and quote regs , the electrical ones are a nightmare and is not always achivable which is why we have a section "deviations from the regs"
    i will take my regs book next time we work for him !!!!

    isnt life a roundabout

    :Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1:

    i am now carrying the bessacarr owners book with weight in just to clarify

    :thumb::thumb:
     
  4. ruffingitsmoothly

    ruffingitsmoothly Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    West of Southampton edge
    Hi

    I'm afraid he may be right it is the gross weight of the Rav4 that has to be used not the unladen weight!

    I suspect that this is over 2000kgs

    Regards Pat
     
  5. The Wallace

    The Wallace Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    368
    Likes Received:
    2
    Not sure what you mean?? IS he an associate of yours or of the DVLA? What are his qualifications apart from being a 'wind up' merchant?

    Ignore him - all I have read from DVLA sources contradict him.

    Enjoy your toading!

    Edit: unless you are not comparing like with like and 1.5T is NOT the MAM of the Rav4!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2010
  6. robinmclaren

    robinmclaren Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    coventry , warwickshire
    rav 4 is a 98 shortwheelbase and the only figures i can find are around 1.5t gross , but there is no waty the ka was over weight and my little perouda a could have pushed around all day let alone towed it
    he is qualified and on the road pulling vehicles but seemed to have a objection to anything we tow and also toads , if i put a car on a 1/2t trailer there would be a problem with nose weight i am sure

    dont panic i will be a rebel and continue on my travels with my toad
     
  7. olley

    olley Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,713
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Location:
    Ipswich
    Hi train weight is the only one that isn't done on gross weights, its done on kerb weight, so the only way they can tell is to take you to a weighbridge. The DVLA unless they have changed their website have it wrong, a guy on outandabout went in to this, and they admitted the website was wrong.

    Olley
     
  8. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Location:
    Mid Cornwall
    If you have the 'Old' style licence with the 7.5t entitlement (c1+e) then you can drive a vehicle with a maxiumum combined weight of 8.25t, but not exceeding the vehicles max train weight.

    If you have the (i think its' 107) code on your licence, it reduces your trailer limit from the old 3.5t to 750kg - that would be an issue, had your m/h be 7.5t.

    As it isn't, you should be fine! The only issue being, watch your weight when going on holiday, as you could fairly easily pop ocver the top without knowing with all the gear! lol!
     
  9. Landy lover

    Landy lover Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,024
    Likes Received:
    3,542
    Location:
    Zummerzet
    is he DVLA or VOSA - I know everybody and their uncle appears to have power of stop these days but did not know DVLA were on the road ??
     
  10. robinmclaren

    robinmclaren Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    coventry , warwickshire
    oh yes dvla have officers out checking vehicles with our regular boys in blue , little blue lights and everything including the power of the great man himself
    i think i may visit our local weighbridge next time going away just to check weights and get ticket
    dont tell me i am going to have to unload some beer, jd or chocolate
     
  11. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,472
    Likes Received:
    16,932
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    Goods vehicle with MAM between 3,500 and 7,500 kg and pulling a trailer, as long as the total weight of both vehicles is not more than 8,250 kgC1E (with restriction code 79 or 107)
     
  12. robinmclaren

    robinmclaren Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    coventry , warwickshire
    thanks

    thanks all for the info , i will weigh it before next hol as long as not exceeding 3.5t and 5.5t gtw
    :thumb:
     
  13. chesterfield hooligan

    chesterfield hooligan Funster

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    452
    Location:
    Stanton Hill
    :Smile: Hi I have a question when you say the Rav has is braked trailer how dose that work is the Rav brakes none servo, or engine running with servo, as to stop a vehicle without a servo is very hard. Plus if it was to become detached what stop's a 1/1'2 ton Rav, with a caravan it has a lead attached to the brakes to stop it if it became detached.:Smile:
    perhaps a bit of a thickie moment by me
    Brian and Marion
     
  14. PeteH

    PeteH Funster

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,773
    Likes Received:
    2,189
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    G T W / Toad

    Hi

    My understanding is that the "toad" being used a Trailer technically Would be restricted to kw as a "toad".

    "A"Frame brake systems work (mostly) on the overun principle and have a snap cable emergency system as per your average caravan.

    The "grey" area is around the fact that it cannot be Automatically reversed and if you try the caster angle of the front wheels makes it "crab" after a few feet. Which (I am told) is why the German TUV will not recognize it as a legitimate means of towing.

    pete
     
  15. robinmclaren

    robinmclaren Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    coventry , warwickshire
    without servo assistance the brakes still comply with braking regs, lets be fair a caravan or trailer has no servo , automatic braking again works on release principle same as a trailer or caravan
    this is one job i always leave to the professionals as get paperwork and warranty that way
     
  16. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Location:
    Mid Cornwall

    Sorry - maybe I didn't get that across. That is why I said it would only be an issue if the vehicle was 7.5t - which would give him a usable train weight of 750kg before hitting 8.25t, which would throw him over the limit.

    As he is 5.5, then can tow 2.75t. - as long as that doesn't exceed the manufactuers or towbars' maximum SWL.
     
  17. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,472
    Likes Received:
    16,932
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    are you sure olley ???

    i always thought it was.....the trailers gross should never exceed the tow vehicles kerb. (or the train whichever comes first.)

    i do know an unbraked trailers gross must never exceed 50% of the tugs kerb which makes the 750kg limit an overall limit and not neccessarily a legal limit
    the tug will need a kerb of 1500kg minimum to tow a fully laden unbraked 750kg trailer.

    this wont apply to most motorhomes but it does to my toad......
    840kg kerb so i cant tow a fully loaded 750kg trailer unless its braked....im limited to 420kg
     
  18. Autoroller

    Autoroller Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Salisbury
    Hi all,

    Train Weight is the ACTUAL combined weights of the M/H and trailer each and every time you take to the road. D f T talks about LADEN weight i.e. what you have loaded M/H and trailer (car) to every trip. So, if the quoted kerbweights added together are over the plated maximum train weight you know that you are giving VOSA cause for suspicion that you are approaching overweight and a trip to the weighbridge may ensue. If the car/trailer has a quoted gross vehicle weight/MAM less than the difference of the plated maximum train weight minus the MAM of the M/H and you are sure you have not overloaded the car/trailer (no, you cannot have persons in the car), or the M/H; then you can be pretty confident that the plated maximum trainweight will not be exceeded when VOSA take you to a weighbridge

    Regards, Autoroller
     
Loading...

Share This Page