General Advice From Honest Dealers(if that's not a contradiction)

Discussion in 'The Beginner' started by oldflemo, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. oldflemo

    oldflemo Funster

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    Following over the relatively short time I've been a member of this happy band I've read some quite worrying threads and seen some almost unbelievable videos of water ingress problems in motor homes.
    As we are all aware there must be a pool(sorry for this pathetic pun) of knowledge available from the dealers who are part of this forum.
    These "trade" members must know the manufacturers whose quality control issues are the most frequent to give cause for concern and equally they must know which manufacturers seldom give them water ingress problems to resolve.

    Would it be possible without harming any commercial/confidentiality issues to at least reveal which manufacturers are the best in terms of watertightness.

    Hope this general information can be provided

    Ian
     
  2. Phill D

    Phill D

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    dont think you will get any dealer to put their business on the line by making such statements publicly. you might get some who will give you private / a personal view.

    but i could be wrong
     
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  3. oldflemo

    oldflemo Funster

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    Hope it might be worth asking! -those manufacturers who are problematic -the Dealers will know and will "adjust" their selling price to allow for the hassle one would expect- but why have the hassle in the first place if standards can be driven up!
     
  4. DuxDeluxe

    DuxDeluxe Funster Life Member

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    I agree with the above. Solution is to trawl the forums discussing damp/water ingress and make your own judgement, bearing in mind that some manufacturers make a lot more than some others and therefore may see an artificially high number of wet ones.....

    Even some of the German marques may experience issues; the second solution being to figure out which dealers provide good service after the sale has been secured.

    A lot of variables in each and I suspect that you will never get the answer that you need but possibly "quite a few of xxxx is rubbish don't buy one". I don't want to sound discouraging but the internet is a wonderful place for anecdotal advice
     
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  5. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

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    You've not done much reading if you don't know The Big One by now and Knockingonabit will add number two.

    But any make seems to have the Friday afternoon models. Price is no indication.
     
  6. DeuceBG

    DeuceBG Funster

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    Damp is certainly a serious problem and not one that's restricted to older, high milers either.
    Whilst we were looking for a Unit, we came across one at a dealer local to us in Boston.
    He had quite literally just bought it in from an elderly local couple and was in the process of prepping it for sale when we arrived to view it.
    It was a beautiful 2002 Bessacar with under 20k miles on it and was virtually unmarked.
    Unfortunately for him, he'd not been quite as thorough as he might have been before buying it as we found him (quite literally) cursing his luck upon finding that the ceiling over the fixed rear bed was wet through from a leaking roof light.
    Not a happy bear!!!
     
  7. Phill D

    Phill D

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    i dont disagree with you on quality standards or dealers knowing the weaknesses of specific products.

    but there could be a lot at stake for an individual working at a dealership to publicly give a Brand a bad name.

    we bought our van on build reputation after a very poor experience on the previous. so far well pleased ( it will be 2 yrs old in March ):thumb:
     
  8. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

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    That is probably the best analysis of the problem. A good dealer will provide you with a good motorhome - sooner or later.

    Maybe finding a good dealer is more important than finding a good van.
     
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  9. oldflemo

    oldflemo Funster

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    I have read almost every dampness problem post since I joined this helpful forum- I am not primarily concerned about price in that I never even mentioned that as a consideration.
    Seems to me that if the quality build is getting worse then surely that is because the buying public are not exercising their rights effectively. We are allowing the manufacturers to deem that the risk of poorly constructed MHs will be accepted by the buying public. That risk must be less costly than doing it properly in the first place.
     
  10. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Why do you expect/ want standards driving up, when in the real world every one wants things built/ repaired down to a price:Doh:
    G
     
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  11. oldflemo

    oldflemo Funster

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    I'm sorry to disagree with you-If there is agreement on price then one should expect to have the task carried out properly-If the job cannot be carried out for the price agreed but the indications are that it can then that is total dishonesty on behalf of the trader (much associated unfortunately with the auto trade)
     
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  12. DeuceBG

    DeuceBG Funster

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    Just because something is produced less expensively than it was in a previous era doesn't mean that it should not be produced properly.
    If you want to pay less for a product then you should expect that something has to be compromised and that something may well be the overall longevity of the product if lesser quality materials are being used in production.
    However, even lesser quality materials should be assembled and Quality Checked in the correct manner thus providing a reasonable length of satisfactory service.
    Some of the modern Units are faulty straight out of the box and that's not acceptable no matter what the price.
     
  13. dogman

    dogman Read Only Funster

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    Now THAT'S good advice.:thumb:
     
  14. dogman

    dogman Read Only Funster

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    I read on here recently about Autotrail laying off a large number of production workers in 2008, thus cutting back production from 50 per week to 9 or something similar, excuse me if I have that completely wrong, the fact is they cut production due to the recession. In a thread today it appears that it is the "newer" models that seem to have the problems while the older ones are (comparatively) problem free. So is the cutting of the workforce to blame for the lack of quality control, is the search for cheaper materials to cut production costs to blame for what many see as a poor product.
     
  15. oldflemo

    oldflemo Funster

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    Seems now the important factor is the dealer thoroughly checking the MHs offered to them to check they are not buying problem MHs and not on the manufacturers to build them properly -Something is out of kilter is it not!!!
     
  16. Phill D

    Phill D

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    one of my biggest learning's when we bought our first motorhome was about warranty.

    more specifically what was covered and by who and for how long.

    The biggest problem with motorhome warranty is that there are so many contributors to the whole.
    unlike the car industry which is highly "individual specification" oriented, the motorhome is a collection of available hardware already on the market.
    Mostly not "quality specified" by the converter; fridge, oven, heater etc etc. each of these has its own individual warranty supplied by the manufacturer not the converter.

    The converter supplies only the warranty for the habitation cell, and the chassis manufacture / cab theirs respectively.

    [HI]Hence the dealer is so important. [/HI] i believe this is the single most important point to be taken on board by anyone (particularly new to motorhomes ) who is in the market for a new motorhome.

    water ingress due to poor design or construction is i agree down to the converter and in this day and age unforgivable.

    Regrettably crap happens even to the best; and we all know thats a fact; that is why i have always measured suppliers on how they react and serve you as a customer in these situations.

    all that said, a quality system that is in place in any manufacturing / assembly environment is only as good as the company wants or allows it to be:Doh:
     
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  17. JimboT

    JimboT Funster

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    Apart from Top Gear i don't know of anyone that gives an honest opinion of market products.
    The industry supplies products for review and most likely would not if torn apart.
    The only true information is going to come from owners, dealers are not going to tell you the problems until they take your vehicle in for trade in at that point you will find if there are major issues! your price will then be adjusted accordingly.
    I am new to this and spent 3~4 months looking at vans before we bought ours even went to a few rallies and spoke to owners and soon got a feel for what makes were best to have.
    We found all the dealers we spoke to very good not pushy like car sales people.
    There are most likely issues with everything as they are fitting standard items (cookers toilets fridges) into different vans in different configurations an one will not be as good as the other.
    I think its a tall ask for dealers to dish the dirt on products they may be selling or have in stock.
    Every vehicle will be designed and engineered round 5~8 standard models of use when it gets to market then it will be exposed to more and design problems will be highlighted at this point the better manufactures will revise and redesign this out.
    So if you looked at model and the price increases i would expect this to be improved if the price goes down that would tell me something!
    This is my opinion i have been in manufacture and engineering a fair few years.
    Jim
     
  18. oldflemo

    oldflemo Funster

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    I am quite aware it is "a tall ask ask for dealers" but they are the ones who have the accurate information on the quality issues and probably in fact have the most clout with the manufacturers.
    Ian
     
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