GasLow?

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Jackomet, Sep 9, 2011.

  1. Jackomet

    Jackomet Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    65
    Location:
    East Sussex, Europe
    I have two stand alone Gaslow bottles as getting my 5er into gas stations can bee a bit of a problem and also I do not want to hook up just to do this. In Spain it's usually OK depending on where you are but in the UK or France it's a no go. So now my GasLow are no longer fit for purpose?
    Talked to Gaslow and just been sent this from them:-
    What do you guys think?

    Industry Information Sheet 028 Industry Information Sheet 028
    Formerly LPGA Information Sheet 24 – June 2007
    FILLING OF USER OWNED, PORTABLE REFILLABLE LPG
    CYLINDERS AT AUTOGAS REFUELLING SITES
    It is our advice that user owned, portable LPG cylinders should not be
    refilled at autogas refuelling sites.

    Vessels which are attached to a vehicle for heating or cooking (on camper
    vans or similar) present similar risks on filling to those for propulsion
    purposes and may be permitted to be re-filled at autogas refuelling sites
    provided they:

    remain in-situ for refilling; and

    are fitted with a device to physically prevent filling beyond 80%; and

    are connected to a fixed filling connector which is not part of the
    vessel.
    UK Health and Safety law, particularly the Health and Safety at Work Act, the Dangerous
    Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations and the Carriage of Dangerous
    Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment Regulations, impose significant
    duties on the site operator to ensure safety. Autogas refuelling sites are places of work
    and their personnel have responsibility for safety to everyone on the site, including the
    general public. They authorise the flow of gas from the dispenser and they may be
    considered, in law, the filler.
    Safe filling of LPG cylinders requires appropriate expertise and/or equipment. Staff at
    autogas refuelling sites cannot fulfil statutory obligations as they have neither.
    Were there to be any accident the site operator could be liable to prosecution.
    This view has been confirmed in the Minutes of the HSE Petroleum Enforcement
    th
    Liaison Group meeting of 7 July 2005 which states “PLAs should consider
    issuing a prohibition notice if their inspectors discover a site which allows
    members of the public to refill gas cylinders”.
     
  2. johnp10

    johnp10 Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Location:
    North Lincolnshire
    Said all of that on previous threads, got poo poo'd at the time.

    Loose cylinders are neither designed nor intended for self filling.
    Doing so is both illegal and dangerous, despite what you may think about it.
    The cylinder owners prohibit it, as do the fuel companies.
    If the practice were safe, the fuel companies would be actively promoting self fill to sell more product.

    The message is simple:
    Either get properly fitted systems which can be filled properly, legally and safely, or risk your own and others' lives using mickey mouse adapters for the sake of saving what amounts to pennies.

    Yes.
    Dangerous Goods Safety is of interest to me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. aba

    aba

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,793
    Likes Received:
    1,119
    Location:
    yorkshire
    if you fit the gaslow bottles to your pickup in a semi permanent way in a van vault box or similar with a filler fitted on the outside of the box then the fuel stations will think you are filling an on board gas tank.
    then when you get back to your fiver remove the bottles from the pickup and re fit them as you would regular calor bottles.
    however you must remember you will get a release of some gas from the pipe between the filler and the bottles when you disconnect it and the box needs drop out holes in case of a gas leak.

    if the bottles are fixed to the vehicle in such a way then they are just the same as being in a gas locker on a motorhome.
     
  4. johnp10

    johnp10 Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Location:
    North Lincolnshire

    Still not guaranteed safe.
    Why not get them properly and permanently fitted to the MH in the first place?
    No problem then, just fill up safely.
    Surely if you can afford Gaslow cylinders you can afford proper fitting?
     
  5. aba

    aba

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,793
    Likes Received:
    1,119
    Location:
    yorkshire
    i was basically suggesting that he fits a gas locker to his pick up for his gaslow bottles so he can safely re-fill them without taking the fiver as thats how i interpreted his thread.
     
  6. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,594
    Likes Received:
    3,853
    Location:
    roche cornwall
    ebay .30 quid .
    works for me.
    safety is for other people,
    i,m exempt.
    hee hee
     
  7. Jackomet

    Jackomet Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    65
    Location:
    East Sussex, Europe
    As Aba said, if I fit them permently to the 5er and fit a fill up nozzle that would be OK BUT I find it a tad difficult to get a rig (PU and 5er) at over 42' in total length (12.5 m) into most garages (and out again) to fill up. When at a campsite hitching up to get gas imeans a lot of hassle, I'm not an RV, bit of work to hitch up and go.
    Also gasLow sold them to me as stand alone units that can be refilled. These are not ordinary bottles with an adaptor from ebay, they are not "mickey mouse" adapters, both bottles are fitted with the original bayonet fitting as supplied from Gaslow. Also fitting them and a gas locker into my 5er would be non trivial as even 6KG bottles stand higher in the pick up bed so may foul on the hitch and also prevent me from using the back metal cover when not hitched up.
    My gripe is that Gaslow sold them to me as stand alone fill ups, now they are as useless as a chocolate teapot.
    JK
     
  8. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,109
    Likes Received:
    16,286
    Location:
    Liverpool.
    Best be quick, I noticed the Gaslow business up for sale at Shepton.

    Maybe put out of business by ebay connectors.:Wink:
     
  9. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,594
    Likes Received:
    3,853
    Location:
    roche cornwall
    hi, now being serious .you have had the gaslow for awhile.filled up many times i,m sure. do you think now that you could have managed with the ebay connectors ?
    i had a connector way before ebay adaptors. back in the 70,s.
    besed on a lpg car filler the big screw(mind gone blank)and a fitting to fit the bottle .
    if you would like to answer ,be honest . you might have saved a few shilling more.
     
  10. Jackomet

    Jackomet Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    65
    Location:
    East Sussex, Europe
    V,
    Couldn't agree more but at the time (3 years ago) 1. I was cluless about this whole RV business and didn't know any better. 2. Never heard of ebay connectors, 3. Took advise from people on this site and went GasLow. 4. Was never going to be in the UK (mainly Spain / Europe) so the Calor bottles that came with the rig were a no go. 5. There is no 5. I only use GL and emergency back up as I now have a Repsol bottle as main supply.
    So I am going to build a demountable container for the GL bottles with filling kit fitted to the outside which I can put in the bed of the PU on a temp basis but looks permanent. Fill up then back in the 5er. Do you think GL will give me a filling kit for free as they told me it would be OK? Er....yeah right.
    JK
     
  11. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,594
    Likes Received:
    3,853
    Location:
    roche cornwall
    in reality all you need is a non return valved bulkhead filler. some high pressure hose and the bottle connector. i us allsorts of bottles .. use emty bottles hooked to filla we know how much to put in .never been asked.
    i also have an ebay filler . very handy ,usually for others travelling with us.
    thanks for the answer.
    i agree with you in spain its much cheaper to have spanish bottles. i have a cepsa. use either uk ormaroc as back up. depends on the trip. if in portugal easy use the garages. expensive but saves carrying another bottle.
    you could make a collapsable gas locker. mind abroad they dont seem to mind . or have some removable strap brackets fixed in pickup. i very often fill mine lying them down(the bottles not me) ha ha, not sure if you can do that with gaslow.
     
  12. johnp10

    johnp10 Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Location:
    North Lincolnshire
    Cant do it with any LPG cylinder, Alan.
    Dangerous, verging on very dangerous.
    Check out the LPG MSDS's. They state clearly that cylinders be transported and used upright.
     
  13. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,594
    Likes Received:
    3,853
    Location:
    roche cornwall
    you ought to see the gas trucks in maroc they carry all the bottles lying down.
    never mind the state of the lorry,s. by the way whats an lpg tank if its not a bottle lying on its side.
    i have one here its a bottle with the collar never fitted . a genuine calor .no 80% shut off all on a cage to sit in a pickup bed. yes it as a few extras . like bleed off valve.but still a bottle on its side. was originally on a transit pickup.
    i do and always have carried bottles on their side . much easier for carrying 47kg bottles in an estate car.
    in australia they carry them upside down.. hee hee.

    can see the reason for not using them on their side but carrying cant see any probs.
     
  14. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    28,934
    Likes Received:
    25,574
    Location:
    .
    I have seen them in Morocco Alan ,.,. :Eeek: bottles dented, no collars etc .. transported like barrels of beer with no thought to the dangers..:Doh:

    however.. there is a good reason for transporting upright. If the safety relief valve opens for any reason, liquid will be escaping instead of vapour posing a much greater danger...

    the relief valve should always be in the vapour phase of the gas, as you will have noticed on LPG tanks laying on their side..
     
  15. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,594
    Likes Received:
    3,853
    Location:
    roche cornwall
    having seen trucks bouncing overrocks as big as medicine balls in the redhot sun .never ever seen a relief valve go. i dont say they never do, but i dont count it in my risks. got a better chance of the bottle falling over and smashing the top off. we could just worry about leaving the house. think the risk in taking a bottle to a garage andfilling it whist is laying down the greatest danger is a heart attack.
    in maroc i like the way they drive the trucks with tubes hanging out the tyre. you do have to laugh .
    cheers alan.
     
  16. johnp10

    johnp10 Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Location:
    North Lincolnshire
    Alan, Hardly a responsible comment for someone with an engineering background?

    There are many reasons, apart from crass stupidity and a failure to realise dangers to Joe public.
    The main one is the valve itself. It is capable of being attacked by the gas in its liquid state. It is designed to contain a GAS (as Jim points out) not a liquid. It aint designed to be in contact with the liquified gas at all, and is NOT designed to be laid down.
    Before anyone comes back with Fork lift cylinders, they have syphon valves, different ballgame altogether.
    A gas tank is not just a cylinder laid on its side, its a different bit of kit altogether.

    This aint Morocco.
    Most cylinders dont actually have relief valves. When they go, the whole thing goes.
    I've seen people shooting at others. Does this mean its ok for me to do it as I see fit?
    You wouldnt laugh if these practices killed one of yours.
    There are (too) many who dont count the risks at all, only the cost.

    I would like to see the filling of these cylinders at fuel stations by folk who are unqualified and obviously not competent to do so through lack of basic awareness not only prevented, but made a criminal offence.
    Incompetence costs lives.
    It would probably take the death of a close one for any to agree.
    But that would be someone else's fault, eh?
     
  17. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,594
    Likes Received:
    3,853
    Location:
    roche cornwall
    we could also stop people driving cars .most drivers have a qualification yet cars kill every day. or the driving of them does.
    imagine being the inventor today .you invent away for people to travel .its made from material that kills many in its production. it uses highly flammabe fuel of many types. we will crry children sat just a few inches from this fuel. and tie them so they cant move.it will kill thousands of folk worldwide every day.
    its callede a car.
    do you think it would be allowed to be built today with that knowledge.
    so lets ban cars they kill more than carrying gas bottles or filling them.
    we do have to be resonable .
    and yes i have a few bottles here without a pressure valve . only had this conversation the other day with a friend.he didnt even know some had them.
    interstingly enough ,i just checked my uk bottles have them the spanish cepsa as one. my german and french dont ,and my two maroc ones dont. never really took alot of notice before. thanks for your concern though . i,m not sure that the liquid does effect the valves. bit like does the liquid get through the regs if the bottle is lying down. i wouldnt do it but have seen it loads of times and never seen any problems .
    think we may have to just have differant opinions on the subject.
    rather not fall out .
    cheers alan.
    ps. wou you like to see all auto gas filling stopped at petrol stations . same people doing it. some dont do bottles but fill tanks and use less thought about what they are doing. i have known the 80%not work on several occasions .not a problem for engine running but for habitation. ????
     
  18. johnp10

    johnp10 Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Location:
    North Lincolnshire
    OK Alan, not prepared to fall out over this or any other issue, but your comparisons are not relevant.

    The issues here are the unauthorised, illegal, unsafe practices carried out by untrained therefore incompetent people.
    Again, if the practice of carrying cylinders laid down was safe, MSDS wouldnt state otherwise.
    If the practice of filling at fuel stations with mickey mouse kit was safe, the fuel companies would encourage it to sell more product, rather than attempt to prevent it.
    You dont need to be a genius to accept facts, rather than brush them aside in the name of saving a few pennies. (We aint talking mortgage figures here, just pennies).

    Filling a vehicle with autogas isnt the same as filling a (not designed for the purpose) gas cyl laid down in a car boot.
    Proper fittings involved.

    We been here before many times.
    Thats it from me.

    Good to have you back by the way.
     
  19. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    28,934
    Likes Received:
    25,574
    Location:
    .
    I agree with you John , except this part..

    All LPG bottles have a relief valve.. it's a legal requirement, you may not have noticed..It is located on the service valve, looks like a small plastic plug.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. johnp10

    johnp10 Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,638
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Location:
    North Lincolnshire
    They do, Jim, but that's about Pressure, not misuse.
    They dont prevent malfunction of the valve due to misuse.
     
Loading...

Share This Page