GASLOW DIRECT FILL (1 Viewer)

[mentaliss]

Well from my experiences of this bottle system here in Spain which is predominately, controlled by Repsol you cant get your 'direct fill bottle filled', problem appears to be that most of the Repsol sites have fuel server's and have been instructed by the Management not to fill any LPG bottles that are not fixed into a: Car, Motorhome, Caravan.......Time then that GasLow withdrew this product and stopped pretending that this is the answer to precharged refilled bottles.......

 

[Badknee]

Are you trying to get a loose bottle filled?

 

[Geo]

If its any consolation I cant get Spanish bottles filled over here, perhaps its time they stopped selling those too
Even if sales were stopped as of right now how would that help your situation
maybe a look at your refilling and or installation choices might be a better way forward
I seem to say it 3 time a week just lately "External gas filling points are less conspicuous" even forecourt attendants will use them
They may well comment how little gas you took but hey,by then your full anyway and you could, if you felt an explanation was warranted say that you must have a faulty gauge

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[Theonlysue]

Happens in garages in UK.
Not allowed to fill non fixed bottles.
My understanding is when you swap a non fixed bottle for a full one, it's checked at some point before resale.
Some seem complacent about how dangerous gas can be.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Never had a problem filling mine but then I have no real interest in going to Spain so maybe that's it.

 

[iandsm]

You fix your bottles with u bolts through the locker flier and flat metal bands bolted around the bottles instead of the plastic ties and demonstrate that the bottles are indeed fixed although better to use a filler point than direct fill I think.

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[Allanm]

If you have an external fill point, no one is going to worry about the type of gas bottle you have or how it is fitted.

 

[eddie]

My Motorhome runs on LPG I've never experienced any issue with filling

 

[JockandRita]

@mentaliss. It is the perception of the filling station attendant that you need to satisfy, and if using an external filling point on the MH skirt, he/she is unlikely to question your need for Autogas, or whether you have cylinders or a bulk tank.

Cheers,

Jock.

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[suavecarve]

is this only in spain or something that is coming into europe ?

 

[mitzimad]

best you sell them useless bottles to me then £10 each is better than their scrap value

 

[Peter and Sue]

.......Time then that GasLow withdrew this product and stopped pretending that this is the answer to precharged refilled bottles.......

I think the OP is basically suggesting Gaslow are misrepresenting how easy it is to get their non-fixed 'Direct Fill' cylinders refilled and those products should be withdrawn.

I don't think that's entirely reasonable - a very brief search on their website will find the following:
"We cannot guarantee that all garage forecourts will allow you to fill your Gaslow Direct Fill Cylinder, if your local garage does not allow this then please refer to the web page "Where to Fill" which lists the filling sites that will happily take your cylinder and fill it for you. If you are travelling to Europe then you may well find that filling with the direct fill cylinder is quite difficult in certain regions. This can be overcome by fitting your cylinder in your gas locker and connecting up to our external fill point kit which will make filling with LPG much easier."

Seems good advice - just needs a bit of research in advance of purchase to assess if they are appropriate for your style of motorhoming.

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[mentaliss]

thanks Im fully aware of

@mentaliss. It is the perception of the filling station attendant that you need to satisfy, and if using an external filling point on the MH skirt, he/she is unlikely to question your need for Autogas, or whether you have cylinders or a bulk tank.

Cheers,

Jock.

Thanks but Im fully aware of what the responsibilities are of the attendants and fitted systems (which I have fitted two systems). The topic is and was about GasLow 'Direct fill system' NOT FITTED BOTTLES as depicted in their Brochure page 7 clearly showing the bottle being refilled at a service station sitting on the floor...........is that ok with you?

 

[Badknee]

thanks Im fully aware of

Thanks but Im fully aware of what the responsibilities are of the attendants and fitted systems (which I have fitted two systems). The topic is and was about GasLow 'Direct fill system' NOT FITTED BOTTLES as depicted in their Brochure page 7 clearly showing the bottle being refilled at a service station sitting on the floor...........is that ok with you?

I think it will be harder, plus the cylinders look much different from "home grown" items. That may also have something to do with it?

 

[JockandRita]

thanks Im fully aware of

Thanks but Im fully aware of what the responsibilities are of the attendants and fitted systems (which I have fitted two systems). The topic is and was about GasLow 'Direct fill system' NOT FITTED BOTTLES as depicted in their Brochure page 7 clearly showing the bottle being refilled at a service station sitting on the floor...........is that ok with you?

I don't know what your "beef" with me is all about. I only tried to be helpful, based on the information you gave on your initial post, which I will quote below...........

Well from my experiences of this bottle system here in Spain which is predominately, controlled by Repsol you cant get your 'direct fill bottle filled', problem appears to be that most of the Repsol sites have fuel server's and have been instructed by the Management not to fill any LPG bottles that are not fixed into a: Car, Motorhome, Caravan.......Time then that GasLow withdrew this product and stopped pretending that this is the answer to precharged refilled bottles.......

At the end of the day, whatever you wish to call them, they are "LPG Cylinders", whether they are refillable cylinders.........or not. AFAIK, there is no such thing as a "Direct Fill Bottle", ie, they are all cylinders, some of which are refillable, and some are not.
Surely if your LPG fill point, is installed in such a manner that it negates the opening of the cylinder locker door, then there shouldn't be a problem with trying to refill your "cylinders"

The topic is and was about GasLow 'Direct fill system' NOT FITTED BOTTLES as depicted in their Brochure page 7 clearly showing the bottle being refilled at a service station sitting on the floor...........is that ok with you?

Nowt to do with me, as I've not seen the brochure you refer to, however, if you are as experienced as you would have us all believe, (having fitted two systems) you would have referred to the vessels as cylinders, and you wouldn't have challenged my effort to assist you, in getting around the problem of being refused a refill.

This is Motorhome Fun, (not Motorhome Facts) and wherever possible, I do my best to help others. If I (or others) sometimes get it wrong, (as we all do from time to time) a polite explanation either on the thread, or by PM, usually does the trick, without rubbing folks up the wrong way.

Regards,

Jock.

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[EX51SSS]

I don't know what your "beef" with me is all about. I only tried to be helpful, based on the information you gave on your initial post, which I will quote below...........


At the end of the day, whatever you wish to call them, they are "LPG Cylinders", whether they are refillable cylinders.........or not. AFAIK, there is no such thing as a "Direct Fill Bottle", ie, they are all cylinders, some of which are refillable, and some are not.
Surely if your LPG fill point, is installed in such a manner that it negates the opening of the cylinder locker door, then there shouldn't be a problem with trying to refill your "cylinders"


Nowt to do with me, as I've not seen the brochure you refer to, however, if you are as experienced as you would have us all believe, (having fitted two systems) you would have referred to the vessels as cylinders, and you wouldn't have challenged my effort to assist you, in getting around the problem of being refused a refill.

This is Motorhome Fun, (not Motorhome Facts) and wherever possible, I do my best to help others. If I (or others) sometimes get it wrong, (as we all do from time to time) a polite explanation either on the thread, or by PM, usually does the trick, without rubbing folks up the wrong way.

Regards,

Jock.

Personally I thought you did an exemplary explanation in regards to his beef.
If the OP has a particular problem, then contact Gaslow direct or it seems he has done and they advised him exactly the same as you and he thought he'd vent his frustration on here in a hope for some type of support. I think the vast majority already know the situation about Gaslow and the occasional problems with some garages not allowing fills but that's not their problem and why on earth should they withdraw the product because it doesn't suit the OP?

 

[Minxy]

Well from my experiences of this bottle system here in Spain which is predominately, controlled by Repsol you cant get your 'direct fill bottle filled', problem appears to be that most of the Repsol sites have fuel server's and have been instructed by the Management not to fill any LPG bottles that are not fixed into a: Car, Motorhome, Caravan.......Time then that GasLow withdrew this product and stopped pretending that this is the answer to precharged refilled bottles.......

According to your post on this thread (#34 I think) you bought your direct fill cylinder(s) in 2014 so how come you're only now 'complaining' about filling them ... what have you been doing for the last 2 years?

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/gaslow-refillable.80140/page-2#post-945286

 

[JJ]

I filled my Gaslow bottles in Spain with no problems (other than having to borrow the adapter thingy from them).

By the way, all gas bottles are refillable.

I have been refilling a Calor Gas bottle here in Portugal for years and years and years.

Just saying

JJ

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[JockandRita]

By the way, all gas bottles are refillable.

But not all cylinders are authorised to be refilled by the end user JJ, unlike those sold specifically as "refillable".

Just saying too.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[gus-lopez]

I've never found an 'attended' service station where they are even interested in walking, the usually long distance. to the glp pump & leave it to you.

 

[EX51SSS]

I filled my Gaslow bottles in Spain with no problems (other than having to borrow the adapter thingy from them).

By the way, all gas bottles are refillable.

I have been refilling a Calor Gas bottle here in Portugal for years and years and years.

Just saying

JJ

Yes, that's absolutely true to a degree. The vast majority of non disposable cylinders are refillable but only small percentage are legally customer fill. The vast majority by a massive margin are LEGALLY only refillable by the authorised companies.
It may well be that certain people refill cylinders that should only be filled by the appropriate companies and not self fill (as with Gaslow Gas -it etc) but albeit particularly illegal it's downright dangerous. I appreciate there are people who take this risk to save themselves a few pounds but I think it's better kept to yourself rather than putting it on a forum where others, particularly new members, might think it's legal and safe.
Also just saying

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[JJ]

it's downright dangerous.

Why?

Maybe it is dangerous if you don't know how to do it properly but then, so is filling a car with extremely inflammable petrol and folk do it all the time.

JJ

 

[EX51SSS]

Why?

Maybe it is dangerous if you don't know how to do it properly but then, so is filling a car with extremely inflammable petrol and folk do it all the time.

JJ

To be fair, not worth replying

 

[JJ]

To be fair, not worth replying

Fair enough...

So I still don't know why you think it is dangerous for ME to fill my own Calor bottle and what "risk" I am taking.

JJ

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[EX51SSS]

Fair enough...

So I still don't know why you think it is dangerous for ME to fill my own Calor bottle and what "risk" I am taking.

JJ

Firstly, is it legal to fill Calor cylinders as an individual?
I'm not getting at you per second. I'm not bothered if you fill the cylinders but please do not let others think that it is safe and legal because it's inherently not

 

[vwalan]

is it really ilegal?
or just breaking the contract with calor .
might be calor could attempt a court issue . but is it really ilegal.

 

[EX51SSS]

is it really ilegal?
or just breaking the contract with calor .
might be calor could attempt a court issue . but is it really ilegal.

There are massive issues. You can of course check but by all means do it. I don't have a problem with anyone filling a cylinder whether legally or illegally but don't do it near me and do not persuade people that it's an acceptable practice because it is dangerous.
I've seen the results of self fill propane /butane and other gasses filled and also the statistics of serious injury and deaths from self fill where it should be done at a gas facility. However, I suppose they are biased because I worked for the largest global gas supplier for a decade but the figures were produced by Linde and Air Liquide.
It's like running blindly into a road. On many occasions you'll get away with it but there is a possibility you won't. Mind you that'll be the last time the person does it.
All I'm saying is don't convince people that it's an acceptable practice.
There are EU regulations under ADR about a variety of types of cylinders and how they are filled and the various pressures and safety procedures in all cases. Two massive books will get you the relevant regulations and you'll find that the EU regulations are enshrined into law.
Please do not convince people that it's safe and acceptable because it is neither. By all means, if you want to, then do it.

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[EX51SSS]

is it really ilegal?
or just breaking the contract with calor .
might be calor could attempt a court issue . but is it really ilegal.

Think this may enlighten
Illegal handling/scrapping of Calor Gas cylinders
Posted on: Monday, August 19, 2013 by Andrew White
This entry was posted in Broken Link Removed. Bookmark the Broken Link Removed.

Broken Link RemovedIllegal handling, conversion, scrapping, filling and trading of Calor LPG cylinders is unlawful. Calor Gas Limited cylinders are and remain the property of Calor Gas Limited at all times and are clearly marked to that effect by stencilling, embossing and by means of data plates.
Illegal handling

Only persons duly authorised by the company are entitled to be in possession of such cylinders. Authorisation includes those who have entered into a contract with the company either as dealers or retailers, or as end users. No other party has any authority to handle, deal in, dispose of or sell Calor cylinders.

Gas (LPG – either butane or propane) is supplied to end users in such cylinders, but the cylinder must be returned to Calor Gas Limited either direct or through one of our authorised outlets when the cylinder is no longer required.

There is significant legal precedent confirming Calor Gas Limited’s title in and right to control its cylinders at all times against third parties handling Calor cylinders without permission.

Furthermore there are tightly controlled systems and environments for the purposes of emptying or dismantling LPG cylinders, regulated by the Health and safety Executive. Even a nominally empty cylinder will contain product and represent a hazard to anyone involved in removing valves or cutting up the cylinder.

The issues

• Unlawful scrapping – We are aware of a number of scrap metal operations who are actively taking in our cylinders, cutting them up and them selling them on as scrap. The cylinders are valuable because they are made of steel and have brass fittings. This activity is unlawful and can result in prosecution.

• Unlawful export – We have exposed concerted and organised criminal efforts to obtain cylinders and then export them en masse, in containers, to countries such as Ghana and Nigeria. This activity is unlawful and can result in prosecution.

• Conversion – We are aware of instances of Calor cylinders being converted into wood burning stoves, bbqs and other such appliances. Any unauthorised person emptying or dismantling a Calor LPG cylinder is both acting unlawfully and irresponsibly, and is putting themselves and others at risk of serious injury or even death. Calor will report all such instances to the Police as this is theft of its property.

• Unlawful filling – There have been some instances of people unlawfully filling Calor cylinders. Any unauthorised person filling Calor gas cylinders is both acting unlawfully and irresponsibly and is putting themselves and members of the public at risk of serious injury or even death. Calor has taken successful court action against individuals for such unauthorised filling.

• Unlawful trading – From time to time we become aware of dealers who are not authorised to trade in Calor cylinders but do so. The integrity of the cylinders cannot be guaranteed and Calor has no control over compliance with health and safety matters such as safe storage in such circumstances. Calor regularly takes action against individuals and dealers for the unauthorised handling of its cylinders, including taking actions through the courts if required and the courts have recently upheld Calor’s right to do so.

We are currently actively working with the UK Government, the police and the scrap metal industry to prevent the theft and illegal handling, conversion, scrapping, filling and trading of Calor cylinders.

Calor has placed more than 10 million cylinders on to the British market with a replacement value of well over £200 million. Each year Calor invests between £10m and £11m putting new cylinders into circulation and maintaining the existing fleet. This is a significant investment. Calor takes the misuse and unauthorised handling of our cylinders extremely seriously and will take action as necessary, in conjunction with the Police and relevant authorities.

What to do if you are a business who is offered Calor cylinders but is not authorised to handle them?

The unauthorised handling of Calor cylinders is unlawful and, particularly if you handle them as part of your business, could result in legal action being taken against you by Calor Gas Ltd. As a business you may also be open to prosecution under Health & Safety Law. If you are (or have been) offered Calor cylinders by someone who is not authorised to do so please call Calor Gas Ltd (contact Mark Hobday) on 01926 318619.

The wider LPG Industry

The LPG industry, via its trade body UKLPG, has noted a rise in the number of cylinders not being returned, and instead being sold for scrap or disposed as waste. The industry estimates that metal theft for illegal scrapping or export runs at around 1% of the cylinder population per annum. The 200,000 or so cylinders that are misappropriated come at a replacement value to the industry of approximately £9 million.

 

[Ex-caravantugger]

Hi all
Just been out an hour or so ago and filled my Safefill cylinder at my local garage. Simple and safe if you follow the instructions. I acknowledge that it is dangerous (and illegal) to fill a Calor cylinder as it has no cut-off valve at 80%. Mine does and I'm ready for my next outing. Seems that these cylinders are a bit like Marmite. I have paid for mine given the vast difference in price at the pumps over exchanging at Go Outdoors or other suppliers. I've just paid 54.9p per litre compared to just under £2 if you exchange an empty cylinder. Never filled abroad though I do have the adaptors. As previously stated there is an App/website listing garages who will welcome you.
Regards, Mike

 

[EX51SSS]

Hi all
Just been out an hour or so ago and filled my Safefill cylinder at my local garage. Simple and safe if you follow the instructions. I acknowledge that it is dangerous (and illegal) to fill a Calor cylinder as it has no cut-off valve at 80%. Mine does and I'm ready for my next outing. Seems that these cylinders are a bit like Marmite. I have paid for mine given the vast difference in price at the pumps over exchanging at Go Outdoors or other suppliers. I've just paid 54.9p per litre compared to just under £2 if you exchange an empty cylinder. Never filled abroad though I do have the adaptors. As previously stated there is an App/website listing garages who will welcome you.
Regards, Mike

Yes as I've previously said, I don't have a problem with people filling ANY cylinder, legally or illegally but the consequences could be definitely life changing to save a few quid. I like a bargain like anyone else but when it comes to gas cylinders, I have enormous respect and I worked at a gas facility for a decade and even with the most rigorous safety procedures in place, accidents can and do happen. Fortunately in those situations, there are rapid response whereas filling stations wouldn't have.
The point I am trying to get over is, not whether it's safe and legal which clearly it isn't but not to put over to members, particularly newbies that it is an accepted practice amongst Motorhome/caravan users. Yes we know it goes on and that's probably why they are banning the filling of them in European countries.
IT is clearly not safe or legal and a slight accident could have life changing consequences, not only for the person doing the 'crime' but also anyone nearby.
• Unlawful filling – There have been some instances of people unlawfully filling Calor cylinders. Any unauthorised person filling Calor gas cylinders is both acting unlawfully and irresponsibly and is putting themselves and members of the public at risk of serious injury or even death. Calor has taken successful court action against individuals for such unauthorised filling.

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