Gas refill

Discussion in 'Continental Touring' started by dotsontour, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. dotsontour

    dotsontour Funster

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    I have just been told by a Portuguese motorhomer that a fuel station on portimaue ( wrong spelling ) will refill any gas bottle you care to take in .Has anyone knowledge of this
    Yours dave
     
  2. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    lots do .portugal is handy for that. there was one at castro marim would do it .plus several gas stations only doing bottles that do it .with e bay adaptors or a gas fuel tank filler its possible almost anywhere . but not recommended by many.
     
  3. GRUMPY OLD GIT

    GRUMPY OLD GIT Funster

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    Gas refills

    Hi Dave, we got our Spanish CEPSA bottle filled at BOLIQUEME just off the N125 near Alberfeira, there was another Brit van there getting his calor bottles refilled. Look for the
    GPL sign, was there 3 weeks ago.
    Bob.:thumb:
     
  4. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    I think JJ has posted previously that the regulations in Portugal are different from the UK so filling of bottles as described is legal there whilst it isn't here.
     
  5. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    is it illegal here though or not recommended ?
    is there a real law that stops it ?
     
  6. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    According to Calor it contravenes UK Health and Safety Regulations, Weights and Measures Regulations and Consumer Safety legislation "These Regulations impose important legal duties on the site operator to ensure the safety of both their employees and members of the public".

    It is also breach of contract which although it is a civil wrong is still something which gives the bottle owner right of legal action :Smile:
     
  7. ukbill

    ukbill Funster

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    yes loads of stations in portugal for filling bottles and ayt a fraction of the price we pay here
     
  8. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi graham .yes thats for at garage sites ,yet at calor and other gas filling stations they fill other bottles . i have calor painted bottles with total gas stamped around the neck i also have flogas with total . so they are filling other companies bottles .
    filling bottles cant be against weights and measures .as the pump is the measure . selling refilled bottles to a customer might be against it.
    again cant really be against health and safety . calor fill bottles .they arent exempt health and safety .they have to abide by it as well.
    as for breach of contract how many that use calor have a contract . hardly anyone . spurious bottles bought from the paper etc so most havent a contract.
     
  9. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    Hi Alan

    Every bottle from Calor gas was originally issued with a contract. That contract is for the life of the bottle irrespective of who has possession. You only get a refund on the contract for part of its lifespan on a reducing scale. NO one other than Calor Gas Limited own a Calor Gas Bottle.

    There have been various take overs that have resulted in bottles being repainted. British Gas was taken over by Shell Then Shell sold to Flo Gas. Total was absorbed by Shell etc.

    User Information Sheet 026
    August 2011
    Replaces UKLPG Information Sheet 24 - June 2007
    FILLING OF USER OWNED, PORTABLE REFILLABLE LPG CYLINDERS AT AUTOGAS REFUELLING SITES
    It is the advice from UKLPG that user owned, portable LPG cylinders should not be refilled at self service autogas refuelling sites.
    Containers which are attached to a vehicle for heating or cooking (on camper vans or similar) present similar risks on filling to those for propulsion purposes and may be permitted to be re-filled at autogas refuelling sites provided they:
    are not removed for refilling; and
    are secured in a suitable enclosure; and
    are fitted with an internal device to physically prevent filling beyond 80%; and
    are connected to a fixed filling connector which is not part of the container.
    UK Health and Safety Regulations, made under the Health and Safety at Work Act, including the:
    Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations
    Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment
    Regulations

    Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations
    Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations
    Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order
    impose significant duties on the site operator to ensure safety. Autogas refuelling sites are places of work and their personnel have responsibility for safety to everyone on the site, including the general public. They authorise the flow of gas from the dispenser and they may be considered, in law, to be the filler.
    Safe filling of LPG cylinders requires appropriate expertise and/or equipment. Staff at self fill autogas refuelling sites cannot fulfil statutory obligations, as they have neither. Were there to be any accident the site operator could be liable to prosecution.
    This view has been confirmed in the Minutes of the HSE Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group meeting of 7th July 2005, which states "PLAs should consider issuing a prohibition notice if their inspectors discover a site which allows members of the public to refill gas cylinders".
    Should a site decide to fill user owned, portable LPG cylinders they need to provide trained personnel to carry out the filling.



    UKLPG the trade association for the LPG industry in the UK«
    A Camden House 'Warwick Road* Kenilworth* Warwickshire* CVS 1TH«
    E mail@uklpg.org


    Page 1 of 2

    To ensure safe and satisfactory operations they must consider:
    legal implications under the Health and Safety at Work etc Act and supporting
    legislation, notably the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations,
    the Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure
    Equipment Regulations and the Dangerous Substances and Explosive
    Atmospheres Regulations;

    their planning and local authority consents;
    their position with regard to weights and measures and consumer legislation;
    their Insurance position both with regard to on site activities and responsibilities
    and subsequent use of the cylinder by the customer.

    Their operating procedures should ensure that:
    any cylinder to be filled is confirmed to be tt marked;
    (Note: this is a requirement in the UK to show compliance with the Transportable Pressure Equipment Directive.)
    the staff only fill customer owned cylinders which they are competent to fill and
    for which instructions for filling are available;

    (Note: Most cylinders in service in the UK are owned by LPG companies and can only be filled by them.)
    smoking and naked lights are prohibited;
    any cylinder to be filled and the member of staff filling it are protected from
    vehicle movement on the site;

    suitable personal protective equipment is worn by the staff carrying out the filling;
    there is a method of ensuring there is no static build up;
    before any fill the condition of the cylinder is checked against a written procedure
    to confirm the cylinder is safe to fill and that the cylinder is "in test";

    (Note: Customer owned composite cylinders have to be re-qualified every 5 years, steel cylinders have to be re-qualified every 10 years.)
    ensure that the cylinder is held upright during the filling process;
    the cylinder can be confirmed not to be overfilled and there is a procedure on
    making safe in the event of an overfill;

    the cylinder valve is checked on completion of filling and there is a procedure on
    making can be safe in the event of the valve not sealing.

    Note: A customer must not be allowed to leave site with an overfilled or leaking cylinder
    UKLPG Code of Practice 12 gives more details to the Regulations and procedures that apply to cylinder filling operations.
    UKLPG the trade association for the LPG industry in the UK>

    Page 2 of 2
    A Camden House 'Warwick Road* Kenilworth* Warwickshire* CVS 1TH« E mail@uklpe.org
     
  10. JJ

    JJ Funster

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    Bob (GOG) is right.

    Also I have talked my local GPL station in Central Portugal into filling mine using my own adapter. I have to keep the bottle in the van here though.

    JJ :Cool:
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013
  11. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    Nice try Alan - but, as we both know, there is a lot difference between trained personnel at Calor and other company depots filling bottles and the general public doing so at filling stations :BigGrin:
     
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  12. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    to be honest we have a flo gas station at the end of my road . if i get a 19kg bottle from them its only 2 quid dearer than if i sneaked a refill.
    if a travel further i could fill .but it would cost more for the gas than flogas and cost more in diesel.
    but the adaptor is handy abroad just in case.
    mind seems calor will soon be dropping the price of domestic gas to 56.40ppl +vat at 5% as of the 12 june 2013 thats nice of them .
    better fill my tank up soon .
    silliest part as john and joan know . the alternative refillables arent that reliable . we know someone thats had their yellow bottles replaced twice because the bottles are not working properly . stuck valves or leaking . at 600 quid a throw you expect better quality . mind they have replaced them .
    mind my calor tank doesnt have an 80%shut off valve only a bleed valve . just like my car gas tank .
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013
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