Future for diesel? (1 Viewer)

[Geo]

Its not many years ago when they were encouraging us to buy diesel cars,,now they are electricity mad but if we all went electric could they generate enough of it ,,,They are struggling now,,,Wind farms have not worked,,,what next,,,BUSBY,,

Diesel powered Power Stations
The've got to do somat wiv it

 

[buttons]

I was thinking about my perfect motorhome in a post diesel age. It would be a 4 wheel drive electric jobby. With a 200-300 Mile range on electrics. However it would also have a micro gas turbine running on LPG to recharge the batteries as a range extender. The weight saved on the Diesel engine and full fuel tank would be more than enough to have a decent load of Lithium Ion batteries. The saving on Diesel costs and the ability to recharge at campsites or whilst on the move would make it practical for me.

I saw this quite some time ago... But if you look at the gas turbine size, scale this up to 1KW it would fit under the van quite nicely to top up the battery charge. With regenerative braking to recover energy and this 1KW genny I think a much higher mileage would be possible whilst giving a similar weight for vehicle?

As I have previously stated, the chances are that every home will have a miniature gas turbine power source.

 

[buttons]

I thought Ad Blue was the solution to NO and DPF's the solution to the particulates?

To be honest I am not too concerned as it appears to be only going to affect cities with high population densities and massive traffic problems which are causing high polution.
For those cities, companies will set up distribution centres just outside the city and use small petrol, LPG or electric vehicles to deliver within the city.

If Diesel was banned totally I would be looking for an electric vehicle with a range of about 200 miles as that is about all I want to travel in a day. Failing that a Petrol/LPG dual fuel vehicle would be better.

I am not worrying about this though as I don't go into Cities any more. I even try to avoid towns where possible. Being a fulltimer though I have a few more choices than most people.

Don't forget about the biggest polluters on the planet.
http://newatlas.com/shipping-pollution/11526/

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[Gromett]

Don't forget about the biggest polluters on the planet.
http://newatlas.com/shipping-pollution/11526/

I agree, but struggling to remember the last time I saw a container ship sail through Paris, Madrid etc etc

The problem they are complaining about is not the polution overall but the high concentration that is affecting people in cities. If you look at the figures they do have a point.

 

[Gromett]

PS: I don't suffer from Asthma on a regular basis. However some Animals can cause an attack that antihistamine doesn't help with. When I went into Bordeaux I had an attack caused by the pollution and it was scary as hell... I can understand why some cities see Diesel as an issue that requires action on.

 

[Charlie]

The thing is no one knows for sure whether we or animals have anything at all to do with climate change....

As above it suits the powers that be to rob

The

PS: I don't suffer from Asthma on a regular basis. However some Animals can cause an attack that antihistamine doesn't help with. When I went into Bordeaux I had an attack caused by the pollution and it was scary as hell... I can understand why some cities see Diesel as an issue that requires action on.

The amount of people affected in cities is less than 5%... The amount of people affected IF it's the burning of petrol is every person and living being on the planet ..

So what do we burn ? Diesel or petrol ?

Don't forget it's not the later diesels with DPFs that are the culprits its the previous generation and the old ones will self phase out over time .

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[Time4T]

What amazes me is the amount of waffle we are fed which the powers that be think we'll believe.

Well I've been doing some thinking.
They put DPFs in cars to control the soot, So, I looked into this DPF crap & found a scientific report that stated that, these filters were making the particle emissions, more hazardous to health than a straight through exhaust.
This is because they remove the larger particles while allowing the particles that the exhaust gas analysers can't detect to pass through.
the reason this is worse is that the minute particles used to cling to the larger ones & fall to earth, but now they are left floating in the air for us to breath in.

This report was withdrawn with no explanation when I looked for it again.

Now we have 20 mph limits everywhere, that are supposed to reduce the deaths of people in built up areas.
So what does this do to emissions?
It increases them. If you go to a speed awareness course, they recommend that you should be in 2nd gear in a 20 mph limit, in my car, 20 mph in 2nd gear = about 2000 rpm, while 30 mph in 4th = 1000 rpm.
So this means that according to their recommendations, to travel 1 mile in a 20 zone, my cars engine will do 6,000 revolutions, but if the limit was 30, it would only do 2,000 revs.
so my engine is producing 3 times as much pollution in a 20 limit, than it does in a 30 limit.
No wonder pollution is higher in these areas!!

Phill

Ps., what intrigues me is how are they going to keep planes flying when the fossil fuels run out.
Maybe Air ships, guided like balloons?

 

[Gromett]

The thing is no one knows for sure whether we or animals have anything at all to do with climate change....

As above it suits the powers that be to rob

The


The amount of people affected in cities is less than 5%... The amount of people affected IF it's the burning of petrol is every person and living being on the planet ..

So what do we burn ? Diesel or petrol ?

Don't forget it's not the later diesels with DPFs that are the culprits its the previous generation and the old ones will self phase out over time .

You are mixing two different issues here. Health issue causing polution and climate change. My comments only relate to Pollution issues.

DPF's are great.

Any reduction in overall soot by mass, aka diesel particulate matter (DPM), may be negated by the mostly-ignored fact that DPM from DPFs is extremely fine, finer than the DPM that is released from pre-DPF diesel engines. The finer DPM is estimated to have more surface area and penetrate lung tissue more easily than larger particles. No healthy human studies have been performed at diesel exhaust concentrations normally found in an urban or city environment, eliminating other health contributing factors to disease would be insurmountable in such a study.

The amount of people affected is only 5%? Are you sure about this. Maybe less than 5% have immediate life affecting impacts, but it affects everyone exposed. We are not just talking about London here but every major city...

Moving away from Diesel in built up areas seems like common sense from a health point of view.

On the Climate change issue. They need to look at the low hanging fruit first ie the biggest producers and the easiest/cheapest to mitigate.

Things like this look promising.
http://www.sciencealert.com/adding-seaweed-to-cattle-feed-could-reduce-methane-production-by-70

Tidal energy for the UK makes sense I just wish the gov would pull their finger out and splash the cash in investments in this area.

 

[Time4T]

If the human population weren't so damn greedy we could maybe tackle to biggest problem we face head on & that is overpopulation!
In the year 1800, there were estimated to be 2,000,000,000 people, there are now 7.200,000,000 an average increase of 25 million a year!
Don't forget this is an average, so the increase in the few years after 1800 was about 2 million, but the population increase over the past 5 years is about 350 million a year!!

Estimates are for 10 billion people by 2050!

Phill

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[Enword]

I think the plan is that we lose the will to go anywhere, can you imagine a 650 mile journey with electric power would take nearly 3 days instead of one day, stopping every 250 miles for a recharge

 

[Gromett]

If the human population weren't so damn greedy we could maybe tackle to biggest problem we face head on & that is overpopulation!
In the year 1800, there were estimated to be 2,000,000,000 people, there are now 7.200,000,000 an average increase of 25 million a year!
Don't forget this is an average, so the increase in the few years after 1800 was about 2 million, but the population increase over the past 5 years is about 350 million a year!!

Estimates are for 10 billion people by 2050!

Phill

There are estimates that between 2050 at the low end and 2070 at the high end that the population of the world will peak and then start falling.
You can see these trends in western countries where populations actually start shrinking. If it wasn't for immigration the UK population would be shrinking by now.

Looking at my own family, my Grandmother had 8 kids. My mum had 3 and 2 of her sisters had 2 each. Then those children have had 3 and 1 child. So that is 8 -> 7 -> 4 down the generations of our family. There are now more non breeders in our family line than breeders. Non of the males of my generation have had children, my cousins nor brother. I think this is a regular pattern.

Anyway, I will be dead by 2050 never mind 2070 so I am not worried about it

 

[busby]

The thing is no one knows for sure whether we or animals have anything at all to do with climate change....

As above it suits the powers that be to rob

The


The amount of people affected in cities is less than 5%... The amount of people affected IF it's the burning of petrol is every person and living being on the planet ..

So what do we burn ? Diesel or petrol ?

Don't forget it's not the later diesels with DPFs that are the culprits its the previous generation and the old ones will self phase out over time .

Well its a good job we had climate change 10000 years ago or we would still be living in the ice age...They could not blame it on diesel and petrol back then,,BUSBY

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[Teuchter]

If the human population weren't so damn greedy we could maybe tackle to biggest problem we face head on & that is overpopulation!
In the year 1800, there were estimated to be 2,000,000,000 people, there are now 7.200,000,000 an average increase of 25 million a year!
Don't forget this is an average, so the increase in the few years after 1800 was about 2 million, but the population increase over the past 5 years is about 350 million a year!!

Estimates are for 10 billion people by 2050! Phill

Spot on Phill!!

By far the biggest threat to civilisation, the human race, all other inhabitants of Earth and indeed the planet itself is indeed overpopulation!!

 

[Charlie]

Well its a good job we had climate change 10000 years ago or we would still be living in the ice age...They could not blame it on diesel and petrol back then,,BUSBY

Ironically my friend you kinda endorse what I said ... no diesel petrol or anything yet dramatic climate change we've had.

In my opinion and I'm not alone we are taxed to a crazy rate yet there is no concrete evidence to support the tax whatsoever...

I wonder if some scientists discover that the burning of fossil fuels are completely irrelevant to climate change we will all get huge rebates ?

 

[Time4T]

Ironically my friend you kinda endorse what I said ... no diesel petrol or anything yet dramatic climate change we've had.

In my opinion and I'm not alone we are taxed to a crazy rate yet there is no concrete evidence to support the tax whatsoever...

I wonder if some scientists discover that the burning of fossil fuels are completely irrelevant to climate change we will all get huge rebates ?

.

Phill

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[gus-lopez]

It's not so long ago petrol cars had to go and we were positively encouraged to buy diesels...

Diesel affects a relatively small amount of people in towns because of the particles emitted. Petrol cars were told bugger the whole planet... you choose ?

Or do they ? That is diesels put out the perticles ?

Most late diesels have DPFs or Diesel Particulate Filters. Our main car a late Toyota Rav4 registers Zero on emmisions the air coming out of the exhaustbis cleaner than when it was drawn in through the air filter.

So of course we pay no VED ? Err well no it's 235 quid as it's a big 4X4...

See where I'm going with this ? Governments across the world use the motorist as a cash cow. They come out with all sorts of frankly shite in order to drag in as much money from a group who have no choice but to pay.

Smoking and drinking have been reduced. So the massive revenues have dropped. So who is the easy target ?

Old Trump who is we are led to believe is nuts reckons that global warming is a natural phenomenon......Just like previous changes. The ice age for instance. Many top scientists agree entirely but no government will hear of it cos it kills the cash cow.

While we're on about cows.... 80% of the gasses said to bugger the ozone layer come from cows and other livestock in the form of methane gasses. They all fa......far................ Well they Fart a lot. STOP grinning at the back !!!!!!!

Some bunch of idiots from green parties are saying we should eat insects like grasshoppers Cricketd and stuff like that. Some countries do anyway . This would mean less animals less flatulence less damage to the ozone...

They can shove Cricket curry where the sun don't shine. If welll started eating them they would tax em anyway....

The lunatics in the shape of governments have taken over the asylum.. dum dum

Simple answer, attach gas collecting tank to rear of every cow and when they come in for milking, de Gas them as well , sort of " save gas fart in a jar " then use the gas for transport

None of the animals count as they are all included in the 97% which is 'naturally occurring ' & over which we have no control. We are only talking about the effect that man has on 3% of the actual total.& if you believe that our abuse of the 3% part is enough to upset the balance then........................

 

[busby]

I don't think Climate Change is a lie,,just think its happened since the World was formed and will always happen. I just don't believe its anything to do with human pollution,,,BUSBY

 

[Gromett]

For those people who don't believe humans are causing it. Please please please look at this graph and follow it down.....

https://xkcd.com/1732/

This is the most convincing article/data/graph/image I have seen....

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[Charlie]

For those people who don't believe humans are causing it. Please please please look at this graph and follow it down.....

https://xkcd.com/1732/

This is the most convincing article/data/graph/image I have seen....

But none of these things are conclusive ! For every convincing one there is one that will say the opposite ..

Can anyone explain the massive changes before man even knew about say coal ? None naddah not one person can explain.

Climate change could be down to anything. A tiny shift out there in the endless universe ? Who knows it's rather large after all.

We are taxed on supposition. Why ? Cos they can that's why and get away with it cos we have no alternative but to pay.

It's all cobblers the whole lot of it. No one knows no one can say. None of us are that clever.

For me the climate changed many times before without the influence of mankind.

 

[glenn2926]

There is evidence to say there was grass, trees and animal life in Antarctica a long time ago. From that I guess it was much warmer than it is now. I wonder how much of that warming was to do with the puny species we call mankind? I would hazard a guess none. The planet has gone through numerous warm and old periods over millennia. It will continue to do so and scientists will continue to find a reason for it. At the moment it is fashionable for it to be our fault. It will be something else in the future.

 

[Gromett]

Can anyone explain the massive changes before man even knew about say coal ? None naddah not one person can explain.

You didn't look at the graph did you

Have a look at it and tell me which is more massive, the changes over the last 20,000 years up to 100 years ago. Or 100 years ago till today.

You say massive changes, but don't define what you mean by massive? A change of 1°C over 5,000 years seems ok? However a 1°C change over 100 years that coincides with the industrial revolution?

Seriously, look at that graph and read it all the way through, then look at the last 100 Years....

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[magicsurfbus]

For those people who don't believe humans are causing it. Please please please look at this graph and follow it down.....

https://xkcd.com/1732/

This is the most convincing article/data/graph/image I have seen....

We have always had climate change - glacial periods when most of the UK was devoid of life due to the extreme cold, and warmer interglacials when animals we associate with warmer climates roamed the land, and nomadic Neanderthals and early humans hunted (or at least co-existed with) them.

Climate change in both directions is a given.

We are currently in an interglacial known as the Holocene epoch. It began around 12,000 years ago, when the Pleistocene epoch (aka Ice Age) ended.

The big difference between our interglacial and all the others before is the presence of homo sapiens sapiens, and the adoption of agriculture, which in turn led to urbanisation and industrialisation, a process based on deforestation and the burning of fossil fuels, plus pollution of our oceans. None of those things happened in the previous interglacials.

As the @Gromett chart shows, our interglacial is the warmest on record by a considerable margin. Accurate CO2 and temperature records for previous interglacials do exist for comparison, based on deep ice cores taken from the Greenland ice sheet. The people responsible for this analysis have won Nobel prizes so they're not amateurs.

Saying man-made global warming is a myth because we used to have Ice Ages and because ancient hippos once lived in Trafalgar Square is completely missing the point. What's important is the scale of warming this time round, which many believe to be the direct result of modern humans adapting an interglacial environment that was previously unchanged. We are the joker in the pack here.

 

[Gromett]

What's important is the scale of warming this time round

Totally agree with everything you said (not sure why you aimed it at me though) except this bit.
The scale of the warming so far is not that bad only ≈ 1°C. The important bit I think is the speed or rate of change. That is the bit that is scary. The speed of change over the last 100 years is unprecedented...

 

[Manxcat]

Magicsurfbus I think you are right , but you omit to mention the rapid rate of change. that is what concerns scientists the most.

Meanwhile we have moved a long way from my original post . If diesel vans are going to be worthless in only a few years , what, if anything can we do?

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[Lot lover]

What's important is the scale of warming this time round, which many believe to be the direct result of modern humans adapting an interglacial environment that was previously unchanged.

It's too late baby (C.King says so) there is nothing we can do to stop it - even wholesale compulsory sterilisation however sensible that might be.

f diesel vans are going to be worthless in only a few years , what, if anything can we do?

Wait a few years then buy ?

 

[magicsurfbus]

If diesel vans are going to be worthless in only a few years , what, if anything can we do?

No change for us - we've just traded in the old diesel MH for a new diesel MH, arriving Feb, but at least it'll be Euro 6 and not Euro 3. I'm placing my faith in better emission control technology and a general reduction in urban pollution levels as restrictions take a hold. I'm not too bothered about parking outside major cities and getting public transport in - we do that anyway.

Our last MH only depreciated 50% from new over 11 years, and the next one will probably see us out, so I'd query whether they'll end up 'worthless'. More limited in urban areas maybe, but there's always alternatives.

 

[magicsurfbus]

Totally agree with everything you said (not sure why you aimed it at me though)

It wasn't aimed at you - sorry if it looked that way. The intention was to support the info in that excellent chart you linked to.

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[PeteH]

There is evidence to say there was grass, trees and animal life in Antarctica a long time ago. From that I guess it was much warmer than it is now. I wonder how much of that warming was to do with the puny species we call mankind? I would hazard a guess none. The planet has gone through numerous warm and old periods over millennia. It will continue to do so and scientists will continue to find a reason for it. At the moment it is fashionable for it to be our fault. It will be something else in the future.

Due, if I remember correctly, to a supposition the the Angle of the Earth in relation to the Sun altered because of a shift in the Earth Axis?. And proposed being due to a massive impact from a (very) large Meteor whereby many parts of the earth showed changes. Some have proposed that it was an impact which "created" Hudson Bay?

 

[busby]

Totally agree with everything you said (not sure why you aimed it at me though) except this bit.
The scale of the warming so far is not that bad only ≈ 1°C. The important bit I think is the speed or rate of change. That is the bit that is scary. The speed of change over the last 100 years is unprecedented...

The present temp can be verified but pre 1800 s are just intelligent guesses because no records were kept...BUSBY,,