Fuel quality (supermarket v. Shell)

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Steve928, Apr 4, 2010.

  1. Steve928

    Steve928 Read Only Funster

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    Having now used enough tank fulls of both Tesco's finest and standard Shell diesel (Shell Extra) to be able to make a meaning-full comparison, it seems that we are getting about 4mpg (>10%) improvement when using the Shell.

    Tesco 31ish, Shell 35ish with our 2.2 Multijet, plus there is a marked improvement in power when climbing hills for example.

    Of course this is neither scientific nor accurate, but I think I'll opt to spend the extra 1p/litre from now on.

    Has anyone else come to the same conclusion?
     
  2. dazzer

    dazzer Read Only Funster

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    Think youll find its down to headwind, road condition, driving style etc

    The supermarkets buy their fuel from the cheapest possible supplier at the time so you may well be getting shell fuel anyway!!!
     
  3. buttons

    buttons Funster

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    I’ve even used the shell V-Power diesel thinking for that much extra cost it must be good. Guess what! It didn’t make a jot of difference. Same mpg identical performance.
    I’ll stick with my Asda standard diesel thanks. I think what you are referring to is the Hawthorne effect. Or is it April 1st:Rofl1:
     
  4. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Dont know if it makes any difference between Shell and the supermarkets,but I do know my Cummins runs cleaner,smoother and more MPG on biodiesel than on normal diesel.
     
  5. Aspenshaw

    Aspenshaw Read Only Funster

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    Shell v Sainsburys

    Our local Sainsbury's buys in from the local BP refinery which is also the Shell refinery which is also the etcetera. However, I understand the the fuel may be different because supermarket fuel has fewer additives.

    All I know is that when I fill up with Shell, I average 30 mpg. When I fill up with Sainsbury's, I average 28 mpg. That difference has been more or less the same over the last 10 years.

    It might be coincidence because when I fill up with Shell, I am usually going through Liverpool to the M58. When I fill up with Sainsbury's I am usually doing 55mph down the M53. The price is usually the same. Sainsbury's is more spacious for a motorhome as it can fit two abreast in the central lanes.
     
  6. gazz

    gazz Formerly "gazznhelz"

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    i run on biodiesel too, my engine loves it, runs so much smoother,
    last mot the tester phoned up vosa about my emisions, he'd never seen them so low and wanted to check his machine could measure biodiesel smoke levels, but they told him that was normal for biodiesel,
     
  7. Douglas

    Douglas Read Only Funster

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    I agree with this plus I would add that the mood of the driver at the time of observation can also effects the consumption, IE relaxed or inpatient.

    Doug...
     
  8. Pampasgrass

    Pampasgrass Read Only Funster

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    Fuel depot

    The fuel distribution depot in Ipswich may quell all the theorists views on this subject.​

    I happened to be in the locality whilst on business and was fascinated by the variety of fuel tankers entering/leaving the site.​

    Shell #BP# Tesco# Jet# Morrison#Gulf#Q8#Esso#Gulf

    The petrol would all appear to be the same it is simply the way it is advertised and marketed.

    I have never seen a petrol tanker signwritten

    Sludge/Snail/Sloth
    Crud / Turd fuels

    Can you imagine standing in the pub and telling your mates that you always run your car on Super "DUPE" Unleaded 4 star Crud !!​

    :driving2::driving2::driving2::driving2:​
     
  9. oddjob

    oddjob Read Only Funster

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    I fill up the driving school car 2 maybe 3 times a week (diesel) ,i do around 30,000 miles a year ,sometimes fill up with Morrison's sometimes shell and to be honest i don't notice any difference regarding performance or mpg bearing in mind we are talking learners here (heavy with the gas pedal)on lessons using the trip computer i average 46mpg ,with me driving its around 55mpg so driving style does make a big difference heavy braking and poor planning etc ,i have also by accident filled up with the more expensive shell extra and again i don't see any difference ,i think its all to do with the additives that the cheaper (don't like that word lets call it less expensive)diesel doesnt get helps engine wear and tear
    oddjob
     
  10. motorvating

    motorvating Read Only Funster

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    In another life I used to be a HGV1 driver, driving petrol tankers, and pulling from the Kingsbury Oil terminal near Tamworth.

    The fuel delivered was the same stuff used by all garages whether they be a supermarket or Garage. The fuel is delivered to each fuel seller in basic form, who then adds their own addatives which will affect your engine. The quality and dose rate of additives makes a lot of difference in engine performance, wear, cleanliness, emissions etc.

    The branded performance fuel will give you better perfomance, but unless you have a performance car you will not notice any major difference to your power curve.

    Fuel savings can be made, but the extra cost in buying the fuel cancells any savings made, however you will probably save money over the life of the engine by using branded fuels.

    I have a highly customised 2.2 diesel PT Cruiser that has a fair amount of money spent on performance so i use the shell performnace fuel because I do notice a difference, but my V8 diesel lump in my RV runs on supermarket fuels because the mileage a motorhome does over its life does not make the extra cost worth while, I believe low mileage motorhomes wouild benifit more from good regular oil changes.
     
  11. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

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    It all comes from the same refineries, but supermarkets do buy budget fuels. Budget ones do not have all the additives that the mainstream suppliers add in. Each of the big companies have there own 'Recipe' which is added. These include lubricants, anti freeze etc.

    You often find problems when doing recovery with smaller engined vehicles and supermarket fuel because of the lack of additives. These generally are mopeds, and generators. These are much more sensitive to fuel quality. We even had one girl, whos' moped blew up regularly...she worked in a supermarket station! EVENTUALLY, we managed to pursuade her to buy from a mainstream if she wanted to stop waiting for recovery every month or two. She listened, and we have not seen her since!

    Budget fuels also consist of 'recovered' fuels. If you recall the tanker that ran aground off Sidmouth, the diesel pumped out of the holds went to Plymouth refinery for decontamination.......around 6-12 months after this happened, we did notice a surge in fuel related breakdowns!!

    You will also notice, in the winter months, it is ALWAYS the supermarket diesels that freeze!:BigGrin:
     
  12. Munchie

    Munchie Funster Life Member

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    So the tankers from Shell, BP, morrisons etc all fill at the same terminal. This is a given I have seen them at Teesport when the Shell refinery was there. So the tanker leaves the terminal and goes to your local BP station, so where are the additives put in please?
     
  13. madbluemad

    madbluemad

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    Stanlow Oil Refinery in Ellesmere Port recieves crude oil from Oil Tankers that berth at the Shell terminal in Eastham.

    The Crude is pumped in too holding tanks on the Shell Oil Refinery at Stanlow.

    It is "cracked" and processed on the plant, the processed crude which is now petrol is piped to holding tanks. The road tankers fill up from these holding tanks and deliver straight to the pumps.

    There is no difference, it would be a commercial none starter for Shell to produce various grades for each customer.

    Jim
    :Smile:
     
  14. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    I was employed at the Shell refinery at Shell Haven, Stanford le hope for several years .. I maintained and calibrated metering and additive dosing systems at the tanker loading bays ..

    Additives are added when the tanker fills up, the driver has no knowledge if additives are being added or not.. it's not his concern.
    When he fills up he puts a code into a keypad which tells the computer what and how much fuel to fill the tanker with, it also instructs the additive dosing pump whether to dose or not.
     
  15. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    so it is the same for all jim , as the pump doesn't know what station he is delivering to according to your post ; so if the supermarket is buying from shell this week , that is what he gets , the shell additive spec


    at least that is what one of my neighbours tells me ...he owns a tanker fleet on petrol/diesel delivery ...AND the local supermarket AND the petrol station attached to it ...unbranded , so you get whatever he got the best price on this week

    my next door neighbour reckons his tractors use more diesel in the winter because of the antifreeze in it ....but maybe diesels use more diesel if the weather is cold , anyone know ?

    anyway , the whole thing is very subjective
     
  16. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    No, the computer does know who placed the order and will fill the tanker with the fuel for that customer, with or without additives. As I said, the driver has no idea what is being dispensed.

    If a supermarket orders from Shell they will get the fuel without the additive.. a tanker won't deliver to a supermarket then on to a Shell forecourt using the same load.. and visa versa.
     
  17. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    There is no anti freeze put into winter diesel, all diesel fuel contains wax. It is an important diesel component because of its high cetane value. Normally the wax is a liquid in the fuel, however, when diesel fuel gets cold enough the wax starts to crystallize.

    In winter the 'cloud' point is lowered by reducing the amount of wax, which also reduces the cetane value , by doing so the diesel will be less efficient and hence lower mpg .
     
  18. robnchris

    robnchris Funster

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    petrol diesel

    It`s really quite simple and Jim is closest, Shell will supply all the petrol stations in the area around them, Esso will do the same, there not idiots why pay to ship your fuel when another refinery is closer, hence the gentlemens agreement.
    The difference is when the tanker fills up at a Shell refinery for a Shell petrol station any additives are included in the package, if it is going to Sainsburys no additives, hence why you get less per gallon.
    Shell fuel generally will give more to the gallon as it is always at the top of the octane rating.
     
  19. Aspenshaw

    Aspenshaw Read Only Funster

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    Back into the debate on fuel with a new angle

    Does anyone remember Regent fuel? I think it was taken over by Texaco. In those days, you did buy fuel based on octane rating and Regent had the highest rating in my neighbourhood. I think Texaco stopped quoting the octane rating when the 2, 3 and 4 star fuel came in.

    On supermarket fuel, the firm that employes my son has 5 Transits each averaging up to 2,000 per week. They did fuel tests about year ago looking at different suppliers and fuel types such as the super diesels. They concluded that the main brands such as Shell, Esso, BP and Texaco provided the best fuel consumption if the vans were driven the same way on each different suppliers' fuel. However, when drivers used the main brands' fuel, they found the vans tended to be more responsive and thus were driven that little bit faster. This negated some of the gain. Around town, there was little difference. Twelve months later, the drivers are only allowed to buy main brand fuel unless there is absolutely no option.

    The test wasn't the most scientific and it may still come down to how the driver feels about the fuel.

    Our local Sainsbury's has fuel delivered by BP contracted tanker from the Shell refinery at Stanlow.

    I guess the answer is to buy what you feel most comfortable with.
     
  20. Steve928

    Steve928 Read Only Funster

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    I don't think I will thanks.

    Thanks to Scotjimland and Robnchris for confirming that there is a difference.
    Additives for me from now on - a bargain at a 1p/litre premium.
    Perhaps it's noticable because a motorhome engine is working so hard: 33BHP/ton isn't a lot after all.

    I remmber the times when supermarkets used to sell cheap fuel. Ah but of course, that was before they eliminated most of the competition.. :Laughing:
     
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