Foreign vehicles better than British made? (1 Viewer)

[Jim]

Sadly the use of chipboard and fibre board is not exclusive to British marks. I've seen plenty of brand new, not yet sold 'Quality' European's with doors off hinges, handles off draws etc. A quick looks shows that repairs will never be permanent.

 

[Judge Mental]

yes the Germans and the French have their cheaper end MHs but it is also easy to buy a premium MH from them, this is what people are mostly referring to.

IMO the difference between the premium british and the premium german MHs is in the construction methods and the finishing.

Yes many of them do wear the same chassis manufacturers badge but then when you dig deeper you find much of it upgraded, Alko heavy chassis with better brakes, suspension etc.

Then turn to the body manufacture, The germans have been using the alluminium sandwich for many years - stronger, doesnt leak, cant rot. Baileys alutech is not what it seems, its a traditional framed construction albeit with plastic instead of wood and loose filled with polystyrene. Many of the others are worse. It seems that the incidence of construction related problems is far higher with a British MH.

Then just go inside and look at the finish. Enough said!

yes the layouts dont suit everyone and some people are uncomfortable paying the price but personally I think its a shame when a newbie in all innocence pays for a brand new Eldiss/Autotrail/Swift/Bailey etc when they could have had a much nicer secondhand Hymer for the same money.

Wot he said!

To be honest that's my take in it as well,I read in our forum just how wonderful foreign built motorhomes are compared to our homegrown brand ,but like you I haven't seen anything which I think is worth paying out all that extra money for ...takes me back to when I was an apprentice in the motor trade. And the first foreign vehicles started to creep into the country .they were mainly 2CVs and Renault dauphins.and were owned by mainly teachers and such like..the snobbery involved used make me have a quiet grin as the quality was total rubbish.we were told not to lean on the bodywork when doing repairs to engine(frequent) in case the body got dented..haha..not like that anymore ,,,are they???

I do have to wonder why you asked in the first place as you seem confident with UK vans and seem intent on knocking the rest Euro vans are only expensive if bought in the UK..imports far better value.

your money your choice.

 

[scotjimland]

Sadly the use of chipboard and fibre board is not exclusive to British marks. I've seen plenty of brand new, not yet sold 'Quality' European's with doors off hinges, handles off draws etc. A quick looks shows that repairs will never be permanent.

not surprised Jim .. they don't build them like they used to.. built to price now..
I bet your B544 didn't have chipboard or MDF

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[martin2603]

Have a look at R S Motorhomes if you want a quality check. They used to make Race Motorhomes but now do a full Range. Very nice, but of course you pay a premium.

 

[Teuchter]

Having only owned 2 MoHo first a Rapido and now a Knaus I can rate the layout and build quality in both as very good indeed.

In my 30 years as a tugger I owned I owned 6 caravans - the first 4 each of which I owned for less than 2 years and were all British were OK but all had damp problems to some degree.

The 5th, again British which I had for 11 years was one of the early Van Royce and it was a really great van but eventually it suffered from some damp and the floor de-laminated .

The 6th and last one I had for 12 years and it was as near perfect as a caravan could be - no trace of damp good layout good quality all round - the only damage was "self inflicted" - brushing the odd stone wall or tree stump!!

It was a Hymer!!

 

[EuroTrotters]

I have only one experience of a British Van, My brother's ACE (Swift). I sat on the Sofa the day he got it Brand new and it collapsed, I was 12 stone at the time.

We have had three German made ones. our 2001 Eura Mobil probably being the best

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[Lenny HB]

IMO the difference between the premium british and the premium german MHs is in the construction methods and the finishing.

A huge difference German vans don't come out of the factory leaking and unfit for purpose. Hymer's PUAL system inherited from N & B if a far superior construction method without and timber in the walls and superior insulation materials,[/QUOTE]

I think its a shame when a newbie in all innocence pays for a brand new Eldiss/Autotrail/Swift/Bailey etc when they could have had a much nicer secondhand Hymer for the same money.

Had that when selling my last Hymer, couple who came to see it loved the van spent a couple of hours with me, but couldn't get their heads round why a S/H Hymer was more than a new Eldiss, not doubt they will lean the hard way.

Thanks for input,maybe I should be asking the question as a like for like such as price ,such as is a £40,000 British built van as good or as bad as a foreign van of the similar value..i think that's what I am really getting at .are the lower end markets comparable on new vans.

You can but a brand new Hymer Exsis T with loads of extras for £42k providing you don't pay UK rip off prices. One of our Funsters did it recently. [/QUOTE]

I don't think it's only a question of leaking vans, sure, there are many Swift and Autotrail vans that suffer leaks, but recently, I have been reading more and more on here about leaky Hymers.

The leaky Hymers you have been reading about are very old 10, 15 years or more and still quite a rarity compared to the numbers built, also if they do leak if will not cause any damage to vans built with PUAL construction (from mid 90's), whereas British vans come out of the factory leaking.
British manufacturers produce a very small quantity of vans compared to the Germans, but have a very high percentage of problems, not worth the risk with your hard earned cash.

 

[nelly]

I think that mine is the best because that is what i bought an how could i be wrong

 

[Tincataylor]

Having worked in design and manufacturing for most of my life I believe that the present day view held by many that Germany stands for superior quality and build standards is no longer relevant. Back in the bad old 50's / 60's when lack of inward investment by the owners coupled with unions with a "them and us" attitude resulted in a dark time for British manufacturing. You will often hear the pub expert saying, after a few pints, that we do not make stuff like we did years ago. Well thank goodness for that because what we made was in many instances of a very poor standard, the car industry is a good example. But now with a combination of domestic and global investment coupled with a motivated work force making products designed in the UK (something we excel at) our manufacturing industry stands equal and in many cases above the average. It was my job to source mechanical and electronic materials from around the globe and I can assure you that sourcing from Germany was no assurance of quality.

I promise never to do a serious post again.........honest

Tinca

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[Khizzie]

Wot he said!


I do have to wonder why you asked in the first place as you seem confident with UK vans and seem intent on knocking the rest Euro vans are only expensive if bought in the UK..imports far better value.

your money your choice.

I was asking the question purely because I will be looking for a replacement for my ten year old autocruise .and I fancied a hymer on its looks.but I needed to get a bigger picture to justify that huge difference in new price..to date that difference in cost has not been justified..someone mentioned the winterisationfor "skiing I can understand the need for that however,I at 70yrs old don't need or want my motorhome for that purpose. I just like to tour mainly the warmer areas. ..so to me it makes more sense to buy a British vehicle that can easily maintained in this country..i am not knocking foreign vehicles just trying to justify the extra cost ..which I. Cant but thankyou everyone for your very valuable input..Roy

 

[Khizzie]

Having worked in design and manufacturing for most of my life I believe that the present day view held by many that Germany stands for superior quality and build standards is no longer relevant. Back in the bad old 50's / 60's when lack of inward investment by the owners coupled with unions with a "them and us" attitude resulted in a dark time for British manufacturing. You will often hear the pub expert saying, after a few pints, that we do not make stuff like we did years ago. Well thank goodness for that because what we made was in many instances of a very poor standard, the car industry is a good example. But now with a combination of domestic and global investment coupled with a motivated work force making products designed in the UK (something we excel at) our manufacturing industry stands equal and in many cases above the average. It was my job to source mechanical and electronic materials from around the globe and I can assure you that sourcing from Germany was no assurance of quality.

I promise never to do a serious post again.........honest

Tinca

Thankyou,that's in line with my thoughts. Best answer so far ..but all answers have had their merit and i am grateful for that.

 

[StefAndDi]

As you might expect when a question like this is asked, we all stand by our purchases.
Those with European vans would never have anything else, while those who bought British vans jump to their defence.
So, just to give the debate some balance.
Our current motorhome is Hymer, and we love it to bits.
But both of our previous two vehicles were Bessacarr, built by the Swift Group. Both were very, very good. Built quality wasn't as good as the Hymer, but then they cost considerably less. And on the couple of occasions when we did have a minor problem, they were rectified quickly by the dealer.
Stef.

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[peterc10]

If you want an A class, as I do, then you have little option but to choose a van made in mainland Europe. Things like double floor, plenty of payload and large garage was important to me, as well as a decent shower and changing area, fixed twin beds at the rear and a front lounge that used the cab space efficiently. I am afraid that British vans just couldn't offer what I wanted

 

[Judge Mental]

A huge difference German vans don't come out of the factory leaking and unfit for purpose. Hymer's PUAL system inherited from N & B if a far superior construction method without and timber in the walls and superior insulation materials,
Had that when selling my last Hymer, couple who came to see it loved the van spent a couple of hours with me, but couldn't get their heads round why a S/H Hymer was more than a new Eldiss, no doubt they will lean the hard way.

You can but a brand new Hymer Exsis T with loads of extras for £42k providing you don't pay UK rip off prices. One of our Funsters did it recently.

The leaky Hymers you have been reading about are very old 10, 15 years or more and still quite a rarity compared to the numbers built, also if they do leak if will not cause any damage to vans built with PUAL construction (from mid 90's), whereas British vans come out of the factory leaking.
British manufacturers produce a very small quantity of vans compared to the Germans, but have a very high percentage of problems, not worth the risk with your hard earned cash.
[/QUOTE]

wasting your breath I fear Lenny...

I can import a Carthargo or Hymer for less money than an Autotrail

I know either the Cartahgo or Hymer will be better constructed using modern lightweight materials, offering better handling and fuel consumption and usable payload for a given weight. and have warranty's that actually mean something? show me a UK A class that works at 3500

really a pointless exercise as I'm not going to convince the Rhd merchants.. who like the security of a local dealer (such is the confidence in the quality of the product). They have not a hope in hell of convincing me UK vans worth the money....

 

[Judge Mental]

If you want an A class, as I do, then you have little option but to choose a van made in mainland Europe. Things like double floor, plenty of payload and large garage was important to me, as well as a decent shower and changing area, fixed twin beds at the rear and a front lounge that used the cab space efficiently. I am afraid that British vans just couldn't offer what I wanted

and achievable at 3500..try find that here

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[peterc10]

[

T ...takes me back to when I was an apprentice in the motor trade. And the first foreign vehicles started to creep into the country .they were mainly 2CVs and Renault dauphins.and were owned by mainly teachers and such like..the snobbery involved used make me have a quiet grin as the quality was total rubbish.we were told not to lean on the bodywork when doing repairs to engine(frequent) in case the body got dented..haha..not like that anymore ,,,are they???

Anybody who suggests that the British car industry produced well engineered and well built products has never had to put up with an Austin Allegro or Morris Ital, like I had to (company cars!). In the seventies my wife has a little 2CV and it was a strong little car with a proper chassis and panels that could easily be removed and were a decent strength. A lot better than the Austin 1100 she replaced it with, which was a rust bucket.

Ironically of course our car industry produces some very good products now. It is just a shame that the companies are all foreign.

 

[Judge Mental]

Having only owned 2 MoHo first a Rapido and now a Knaus I can rate the layout and build quality in both as very good indeed.

In my 30 years as a tugger I owned I owned 6 caravans - the first 4 each of which I owned for less than 2 years and were all British were OK but all had damp problems to some degree.

The 5th, again British which I had for 11 years was one of the early Van Royce and it was a really great van but eventually it suffered from some damp and the floor de-laminated .

The 6th and last one I had for 12 years and it was as near perfect as a caravan could be - no trace of damp good layout good quality all round - the only damage was "self inflicted" - brushing the odd stone wall or tree stump!!

It was a Hymer!!

case closed!

 

[BMStewart2004]

We are looking to buy in the none too distant (I hope) future.
We hired a Chausson in 2014 to watch the TDF and while we liked the island bed didnt like the lounge layout. So we went to the NEC Show in 2014 and liked the island bed Bailey 730 and Autotrail Tracker RB. My leaning was towards the Bailey as it was £10k cheaper (£46k vs £56k). We have recently hired a Bailey 730 for a few days and whilst we still like the layout found that;
It drove as if the wheels were solid (maybe the tyres were over inflated)
The build quality was poor - despite being only 6 months old the work surface and floor had dents in them
I had to sit side saddle on the loo - I'm 5'11 and 12st
It rattled more than the well used and cheaper Chausson - we could hardly hear each other speak and had no chance with out SatNav
Lacked storage accessible from the outside and only had a single half wardrobe
We never did take the table out from its storage under the rear bed as I think it would have been a two person job.
Then we went into another Funsters Burstner which the boss thought was "lovely" and the finish was streets ahead of the Bailey.

Afraid that we'll be looking across the channel - a) it'll save us £15k-£20k b) the build quality just seems so much better.
Cheers
Bill

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[Violet1]

Not sure how late I am to this thread but £40,000 at the moment having just received email from Fairfx currency euro now at €1.40/£1.00 you're looking at €55922 . Quite a lot of continental m/home

 

[funflair]

A huge difference German vans don't come out of the factory leaking and unfit for purpose. Hymer's PUAL system inherited from N & B if a far superior construction method without and timber in the walls and superior insulation materials,

Had that when selling my last Hymer, couple who came to see it loved the van spent a couple of hours with me, but couldn't get their heads round why a S/H Hymer was more than a new Eldiss, not doubt they will lean the hard way.

You can but a brand new Hymer Exsis T with loads of extras for £42k providing you don't pay UK rip off prices. One of our Funsters did it recently. [/QUOTE]

The leaky Hymers you have been reading about are very old 10, 15 years or more and still quite a rarity compared to the numbers built, also if they do leak if will not cause any damage to vans built with PUAL construction (from mid 90's), whereas British vans come out of the factory leaking.
British manufacturers produce a very small quantity of vans compared to the Germans, but have a very high percentage of problems, not worth the risk with your hard earned cash.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure that PUAL came from N+B as they have alluminium skins both sides of the foam, the Hymer PUAL has plywood on the inside wall.

Martin

 

[Lenny HB]

Are you sure that PUAL came from N+B as they have alluminium skins both sides of the foam, the Hymer PUAL has plywood on the inside wall.

Martin

PUAL refers to the method of construction, no timber battens, they use aluminium also the the type of joint construction, yes Hymer do use ply on the inner wall, but it is marine ply.

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[scotjimland]

 

[Lenny HB]

Where did you find that info Jim? I always thought they inherited it from N & B when they took them over.

 

[scotjimland]

Nicked off of this site http://www.ezitow.co.nz/news/construction-for-ezitow/

and more here

http://www.hymer.com/en/company/historie/chronik-der-hymer-reisemobile.html

1978
The innovative PUAL body shell is developed and proves its stability.

Broken Link Removed

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[Jaws]

Our Hobby was made almost too well ( if that is possible ).. Beautifully put together and very solid. electrics were engineered to an amazing standard too

The Miller ( Italian firm ) was reasonable .. certainly no real issues and certainly nowt fell apart.. Not as solid as the Hobby but still pretty good

The Autotrail is well appointed inside, the body is well put together and the components are pretty good to say the least
Sadly the whole thing is ruined by abysmal electrics.. Vastly over complicated and poorly fitted .
And having been involved with a few other from the same maker mine is not unusual ..

just an opinion of course but for me, German built vans do seem to be the best of the bunch ( but some of the new offerings seem to leave a lot to be desired ? )

 

[peterc10]

If you want to see how they are put together their is an iBroken Link Removed. I particularly like the way they put the roof and walls together, with the only joint (always the most likely place to leak) on the vertical wall rather than the horizontal roof. Much less likely to allow water through. The van on photos 16, 21 and 26 looks like the one I am buying.

Edit: but the one coming out of the factory complete looks like it is the same one that @StefAndDi are selling.

 

[MR. FUSION]

If you want to see how they are put together their is an iBroken Link Removed. I particularly like the way they put the roof and walls together, with the only joint (always the most likely place to leak) on the vertical wall rather than the horizontal roof. Much less likely to allow water through. The van on photos 16, 21 and 26 looks like the one I am buying.

Edit: but the one coming out of the factory complete looks like it is the same one that @StefAndDi are selling.

looks good.....similar to the Carado one, lots of polishing and smiles



Can any knowledgeable funsters tell me the material composition and construction methods of the sides of the MH in this video please, ally outer skin definitely and a GRP roof and back.

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[peterc10]

looks good.....similar to the Carado one, lots of polishing and smiles
.

Aren't they part of the Hymer Group?

 

[MR. FUSION]

Aren't they part of the Hymer Group?

Yes, probably the same PR company, both Sunlight and Carado models come out of that factory.

 

[MR. FUSION]

Broken Link Removed

Ah yes, that's the tugger I watched parking at camping in the forest nr Loch Lomond

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