Flat battery solution please (1 Viewer)

[Don Quixote]

With all due respect - adding solar panels and chargers isn't going to help at this stage. Fact is a vehicle battery shouldn't go flat in 2 weeks.
Find the fault - engineer the solution

As the OP stated: "Is there some sort of work around to stop the drain which must be from immobiliser as nothing left on. HELP please" The answer is to get someone to look at the battery etc as I stated, however without fitting a solar panel the same thing will happen again, with respect reply to what was asked.

 

[Rob and Val]

Don't bother with this as it will not supply enough to light a bulb up......... waste of money.

Must be a psychological thing then. All I know is that battery used to go flat and since we got this it always starts first time - even if van has been stood for a month.

 

[andy63]

had a quick look at the thread, and if hook up isn't an option then solar would seem to be the way to go.. I thought your start battery was charged when on hook up , but may have that wrong.
if you do fit an isolator switch then your alarm system would not work which may have insurance implications, that's again if you have a factory fitted alarm, I cant remember.
you could check to see what your current drain is with the multimeter on the ammeter function, that will give you a better idea of what is actually going on.
a good smart charger wired in and used say once a week to keep the battery right would also be an option as long as the battery is good.
ta andy

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Jaws]

Thanks for this thread !
A timely reminder for me..
I usually start and run the mh for at least 40 minutes every two weeks if it has not been out ( generally we stay at home from beginning of December until mid January due to family stuff )
Just went and started the ol girl and ( it has been a tad over two weeks ) and yep, she struggled..
And I have the bloody isolator switch still sitting on the side here.. A 'roundtoit' job I REALLY need to do !

 

[Don Quixote]

had a quick look at the thread, and if hook up isn't an option then solar would seem to be the way to go.. I thought your start battery was charged when on hook up , but may have that wrong.
if you do fit an isolator switch then your alarm system would not work which may have insurance implications, that's again if you have a factory fitted alarm, I cant remember.
you could check to see what your current drain is with the multimeter on the ammeter function, that will give you a better idea of what is actually going on.
a good smart charger wired in and used say once a week to keep the battery right would also be an option as long as the battery is good.
ta andy

Andy the OP states: "I want a solution without EHU please"

 

[gozomike]

At a guess since the MH was new which is nearly 5 yrs

At 5 years the battery is most likely kaput and certainly will not be at its best.

As in the other posts if you do not have an alarm it's best to disconnect the battery when the vehicle is not in use for a long period. If you do have an alarm you do need a solar panel or EHU to keep it topped up.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[andy63]

Andy the OP states: "I want a solution without EHU please"

yes I know , my main point was to find out what the actual drain is.. and didn't class charging once a week or whatever as been on ehu
ta andy

 

[Gizmouk]

As the OP stated: "Is there some sort of work around to stop the drain which must be from immobiliser* as nothing left on. HELP please" The answer is to get someone to look at the battery etc as I stated, however without fitting a solar panel the same thing will happen again, with respect reply to what was asked.

My point being - "You" need to know what (if) is draining the battery so quickly, and the condition of the battery before putting any solution(s) in place.

* an Immobiliser takes milliamps, and therefore will be unlikely to be the root cause of the battery discharge

 

[Jaws]

Yes, but even milliamps add up .. and freezing conditions will greatly reduce what it can hold AND in very cold weather the oil thickens which makes cold starting harder for the starter motor too

The battery we have is huge ( no idea how much capacity but it is the biggest bugger I have ever seen ! ). It is 7 - 8 months old and a decent make ( Varta )

Lets say the alarm is drawing about 15mA ( the actual average is supposed to be 13mA .. that figure gleaned by Thatcham after testing alarms from all the major players )
You can also expect a little bit of leakage through the alternator diodes, plus a few mA from various other bits and bobs including the digital clock on the dash
So lets say a total of .1 amps ( and I think that would be quite exceptionally low to be honest )**

.1 x 24( hours ) x 14 ( days ) equals 33.6 aH
Given the effect on electrolytic at temperatures AROUND freezing you probably have a reduction in capacity of up to 20+%
So taken that the average van battery is 100 aH, you can see that after two weeks you are hovering around the 50% charge state
And that, when trying to start a big old diesel lump in the cold, is on the edge of going critical !

**
I would expect a more reasonable figure would be at least two or three times this ..

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Badknee]

It doesn't come off, and on that subject we have no working radio either now and no code to reprogram it

Not to mention mums faith in the MH now.

At a guess since the MH was new which is nearly 5 yrs and 15000 mile.

It may very well be the battery at five yrs old. Sorry.

 

[Badknee]

Also I am sure I read somewhere that a battery at O degrees loses up to 50% of its power! also when storing/charging a battery don't stand it on the floor but put a piece of wood under it, cold again I think.

 

[Jaws]

Concrete Paul !
No idea why but stand a battery on a concrete floor and it will promptly die a death !

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[lorger]

Been reading this with interest and I like the idea of the isolation switch, just a thought though if your battery is flat on a fiat ducato you have two points for jump starting it can these also be used for charging. As I said just a thought after reading the thread if it's possible then could you connect your smart charger and leave on over winter months when not in use, we tend to use ours every four weeks or more in winter so doesn't sit to long.

 

[Badknee]

Concrete Paul !
No idea why but stand a battery on a concrete floor and it will promptly die a death !

Yes that's what I heard and like you I don't know why?

 

[Terry]

Lorger-Yes you can (my own is on 24/7) but Hook up is not an option on OP's question
terry

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Badknee]

Been reading this with interest and I like the idea of the isolation switch, just a thought though if your battery is flat on a fiat ducato you have two points for jump starting it can these also be used for charging. As I said just a thought after reading the thread if it's possible then could you connect your smart charger and leave on over winter months when not in use, we tend to use ours every four weeks or more in winter so doesn't sit to long.

I had a beach buggy many moons ago and used a heavy duty isolation switch that rally/racing cars have for safety. I used it for protection against theft,with the radio (face off) wired through a 1amp fuse straight to the battery. Worked a treat.

 

[lorger]

Lorger-Yes you can (my own is on 24/7) but Hook up is not an option on OP's question
terry

Thanks Terry, I understand hook up isn't option for OP was thinking about myself as might not be using van for a few weeks in Jan so could do this.

 

[Terry]

Thanks Terry, I understand hook up isn't option for OP was thinking about myself as might not be using van for a few weeks in Jan so could do this.

I have one of the Aldi x5 chargers onto the engine battery and the 22 amp hr smart charger (van)takes care of the LB -I could easy wire the engine battery so that it gets charged off the van charger but find it simpler to just leave the Aldi one on permanently -just have to remember to press the button setting on the Aldi one Done me for the last 8 yrs so no point in changing it now edit- just a thought-obviously if you use the isolator switch you will have no alarm etc
terry

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Gizmouk]

Yes that's what I heard and like you I don't know why?

It's based on history x Chinese whisper. In reality, it hasn't been true for a few decades.

Back in the day - flooded cells came in glass "jars" (as they were called). To protect the glass, the jar would normally be enclosed in rubber or tar (type material) lined wooden case. If placed on a cold damp concrete floor, the moisture could case the wood to swell - and damage the glass jar.
Or
Over 30 years ago battery cases were made of hard rubber - which was slightly porous, which would allow for weeping. This would result in the acid reacting with the concrete, which in turn would rot the battery case.

Flooded cells are still used in some applications, but certainly not in motorhomes
Hard rubber cases haven't been used in decades.

 

[buffallobill]

Been reading this with interest and I like the idea of the isolation switch, just a thought though if your battery is flat on a fiat ducato you have two points for jump starting it can these also be used for charging. As I said just a thought after reading the thread if it's possible then could you connect your smart charger and leave on over winter months when not in use, we tend to use ours every four weeks or more in winter so doesn't sit to long.

Could you please tell me where the 2points are for jump starting a battery on a fiat, because I struggle trying to get the positive jump lead connected to the terminal because it is tight space at the back near bulkhead and the fittings on top of + terminal

 

[Don Quixote]

As an Ex "Scaly Back" we used to put batteries on wooden boards because that was how it was done, but many a time we place the batteries on the floor ( some times -15C outside ) and guess what........... made no difference what so ever. Thats the worst thing about " hear say" turns into fact before long......

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Don Quixote]

Could you please tell me where the 2points are for jump starting a battery on a fiat, because I struggle trying to get the positive jump lead connected to the terminal because it is tight space at the back near bulkhead and the fittings on top of + terminal

Why not make yourself a "terminal box" from the "hard to get to" batteries and then connect your jump leads or whatever your using to the posts.

 

[buffallobill]

Thank you john, might get auto elec to do it. It will look more professional.

 

[irnbru]

Thanks for all the replies. So last night I put a ctek 360 charger on jump points. This morning I get inside MH and notice the cab battery on control panel is flashing. I press the corresponding button and it shows only one red dot so basically reading battery is flat. I try and start the engine and mh fires up no problem. We head off to Oban with the idea of buying a battery on arrival.
We are now sitting in Kwikfit, seats off and tester on battery. Good battery we are told as its 89% charged.
So why now is our control panel showing flat and flashing?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Don Quixote]

Thanks for all the replies. So last night I put a ctek 360 charger on jump points. This morning I get inside MH and notice the cab battery on control panel is flashing. I press the corresponding button and it shows only one red dot so basically reading battery is flat. I try and start the engine and mh fires up no problem. We head off to Oban with the idea of buying a battery on arrival.
We are now sitting in Kwikfit, seats off and tester on battery. Good battery we are told as its 89% charged.
So why now is our control panel showing flat and flashing?

Yes but no disrespect to "kwikfit fitter!" but did he do a drop test with the correct equipment or just run a meter across the batteries giving voltage only! worrying because if you had driven to them they should have waited about 30 / 60 minutes for battery to settle after change before testing and given you a reading before and after test. Not sure why you used the charger across jump points directly across battery is better.

one of these things:

or

 

[lorger]

Could you please tell me where the 2points are for jump starting a battery on a fiat, because I struggle trying to get the positive jump lead connected to the terminal because it is tight space at the back near bulkhead and the fittings on top of + terminal

Don't know what year your is so might be different ours is 2010.
If you lift the bonnet and while facing the windscreen on the right hand side there is a small bolt sticking out at the front with a wee sticker this is the negative point, again on the right hand side in the engine compartment you will see a fuse box at the left of it is a small flap that opens up to expose a piece of metal this is the positive. If you can't find them I will take pics tomorrow.

 

[andy63]

overnight charge and a long drive should leave it in good state of charge, but your panel should reflect that so it sounds faulty..
none of that gets away from fact that the battery flattens over a week or so , and you will have to find out what the drain is and whether that is resonable for whatever is been powered. ie immobilizer central locking alarm etc.
you will have a better idea then as to whether battery is up to the job or there is a unnecessary drain that will have to be found.
know that doesn't help right now but sounds like it will be ok over a day or so.
ta andy

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Scattycat]

If we leave our van with the imobiliser and alarm on they soon flatten the battery

 

[Jaws]

It's based on history x Chinese whisper. In reality, it hasn't been true for a few decades.

Back in the day - flooded cells came in glass "jars" (as they were called). To protect the glass, the jar would normally be enclosed in rubber or tar (type material) lined wooden case. If placed on a cold damp concrete floor, the moisture could case the wood to swell - and damage the glass jar.
Or
Over 30 years ago battery cases were made of hard rubber - which was slightly porous, which would allow for weeping. This would result in the acid reacting with the concrete, which in turn would rot the battery case.

Flooded cells are still used in some applications, but certainly not in motorhomes
Hard rubber cases haven't been used in decades.

Really ? Sorry me old mucker
Unless the battery a close friend removed from his 6 month old Yamaha in late October was a bit of a throw back, it is as true today as it ever was !
Got a call out a couple of days before Krimble to get him started.. Battery was flatter than a witches t!t !!!!
His spare ( which he took out of his old bike and left on the bench when the poor thing was mowed down while parked up ) was perfectly usable still and started the bike no problem
Less than two months on the concrete garage floor 'did' for the new one !
OK, it came back to life but the quiescent voltage had dropped to just over 9v so do not think it will ever be as good as it should be now

 

[Badknee]

Could you please tell me where the 2points are for jump starting a battery on a fiat, because I struggle trying to get the positive jump lead connected to the terminal because it is tight space at the back near bulkhead and the fittings on top of + terminal

From what I have seen only vans with the battery NOT in the engine bay have jump points, but I will stand corrected if otherwise found.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}