FirePal - New Light, Small But Powerful Fire Extinguisher (1 Viewer)

hilldweller

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2008
605
36,108
Macclesfield
Funster No
5,089
MH
Zilch Mk1
Exp
From Aug 2007
>> FirePal - New Light, Small But Powerful Fire Extinguisher

No need to buy one, I have a penis.
 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
Broken Link Removed that leads to the MSDS.

Same as the one in the previous link. Potassium Nitrate and Melamine still aren't CO2 and it still has no British Standards approval (y)

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
Wombles

Wombles

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 28, 2013
10,783
11,030
SW England
Funster No
28,783
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
A few years now
Broken Link Removed that leads to the MSDS.
Looks like that link might be the answer to the lack of British Standard ?
"NB The standard for EU pressurised Fire Extinguishers is EN3. This does not apply to the PFE as it is a non-pressurised unit and as such, a completely new standard is currently being written by the BRE (Building Research Institute) to which the PFE will comply."
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
It's good that there is a lot of interest in this & I do understand the scepticism but this product

Looks like that link might be the answer to the lack of British Standard ?
"NB The standard for EU pressurised Fire Extinguishers is EN3. This does not apply to the PFE as it is a non-pressurised unit and as such, a completely new standard is currently being written by the BRE (Building Research Institute) to which the PFE will comply."

Which STILL isn't a British Standard. The BRE isn't a government body any more and so isn't a statutory certification body. It's a private company serving the construction sector. It awards third party certification amongst it's other activities which isn't the same thing at all. Remember the "NCC approval" you mentioned earlier? It's on the same level as that.
The problem with any private business awarding their own approval is that they are selling a product. If they don't sell it, i.e. don't award the certification, they don't get paid.

I'm sure this product does what it claims to do but without proper British Standard approval it has to be considered as Micky Mouse.

And just to correct the sentence you quoted from the link. BS EN3-8:2006 is the addition to BS EN3-7:2004 that covers portable fire extinguishers with a maximum pressure of less than 30mB so to claim it doesn't apply is simply wrong.

Is that a genuine mistake by whoever wrote that web page or an attempt to be deliberately misleading? I'll let you decide for yourself.

EDIT: I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how something that works by the aerosol method can be described as non-pressurised.

EDIT: If the BRE are writing their "standard" especially for this product doesn't that strike you as pretty pointless? How could it not comply? If the manufacturer or importer is paying for it then it will say whatever they want it to.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
OP
Wombles

Wombles

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 28, 2013
10,783
11,030
SW England
Funster No
28,783
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
A few years now
FirePal was creating a lot of interest & selling well at the Show. When we talked to staff on other stands many of them had also bought some or were planning to have them in their workshops. We understand that this it will be stocked by a number of major stockists both online & instore so surely all these can't have got it wrong?!
We can't answer any technical queries as we only have the information that we have already shared in the hope that it would be of interest to Funsters. We bought & paid for our two fire extinguishers at the Show rate so no gain for us from putting this on the forum but thought it was an interesting, innovative new product & potentially a safer option than standard fire extinguishers?! :imoutahere:
I will email FirePal to see if they can look at your posts & answer some of your queries...

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
We understand that this it will be stocked by a number of major stockists both online & instore so surely all these can't have got it wrong?!

Perhaps they don't care. If they are being sold for personal use then I don't believe they have to comply with the standard. Personally I wouldn't buy a product like this that isn't properly certificated but that's just me. (y)

it was an interesting, innovative new product & potentially a safer option than standard fire extinguishers?!
I will email FirePal to see if they can look at your posts & answer some of your queries...

It certainly is an interesting and innovative product. Safer? No I don't think so. It may prove to be as safe as a proper fire extinguisher but no more than that. That's why it needs proper certification - at the moment all anyone has to go on is some OK marketing and a couple of controlled demonstration videos.

My point is that if they are serious about the UK market they would be aiming for proper certification, not the second rate third party equivalent.

My points aren't queries by the way. They are based on too many years managing a contractor for whom fire systems was a major part of the business.
 
OP
OP
Wombles

Wombles

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 28, 2013
10,783
11,030
SW England
Funster No
28,783
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
A few years now
FirePal comes in different versions of which some were definitely aimed at trade customers especially garages & workshops not just the leisure market. When I said
I will email FirePal to see if they can look at your posts & answer some of your queries...
I meant all the queries raised on the thread for all Funsters :)
 

makems

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 23, 2011
3,436
27,584
Ingleby Barwick,,Teesside
Funster No
18,264
MH
Sadly had to give up
Exp
2010-2017
>> FirePal - New Light, Small But Powerful Fire Extinguisher

No need to buy one, I have a penis.
You will get some nasty burns trying to pat the fire out with your penis Brian.
Use your bladder, it's more effective in my opinion. :whistle:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
some were definitely aimed at trade customers especially garages & workshops

That would be down to whoever carries out the fire risk assessment for the premises to decide whether an uncertified product is worth the risk and also to their insurance company as to whether they will accept a system that doesn't have British Standard approval and also can't be properly inspected ever year.

I would think that at best they could perhaps be kept along side proper extinguishers but I can't see any way that a risk assessment could allow them instead of.
 
Aug 10, 2012
834
881
cambridge
Funster No
22,344
MH
Globecar
Exp
since2001
The problem can escalate very quickly. when you ask your Insurance company if it's OK what do you think they will say?
Or worse you had a fire and was unsuccessful with your 'fire pal' in extinguishing it.
We have standards for a reason
 
Aug 10, 2012
834
881
cambridge
Funster No
22,344
MH
Globecar
Exp
since2001
FirePal comes in different versions of which some were definitely aimed at trade customers especially garages & workshops not just the leisure market. When I said
I meant all the queries raised on the thread for all Funsters :)
Thank you for all your posts,it's a nice item.
Don't take all these comments personally
It's a serious business is fire

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Feb 27, 2011
14,671
74,888
UK
Funster No
15,452
MH
Self Build
Exp
Since 2005
Well I still can't find anything on the extinguishing medium ... They say non pressurised which indicates it must generate it's own pressure perhaps chemically when activated... I suspect generating co2 or some other inert gas... just guesses.
Ta andy

When its 'activated' it takes a moment to gain full flow , so my guess is its a chemical reaction producing a extingushing agent, perhaps co2 or similar
What you guys said.
From the way it starts and builds up like a solid fuel rocket I would guess it is some chemical reaction that builds pressure internally or actually generates CO2 from a chemical reaction?
 
Feb 27, 2011
14,671
74,888
UK
Funster No
15,452
MH
Self Build
Exp
Since 2005
I think I may get a couple of these. They are certainly pretty effective. I have a large extinguisher in my van and I would use these to supplement the main one.
 

Dave and Ginny

Free Member
Jan 31, 2013
1,569
1,582
Nottingham
Funster No
24,505
MH
Hymer Starline 680
Exp
Since 2011, previously a tugger
I'll be sticking with the BS approved Chub Dry Powder extinguisher in my van.

The problem with motorhomes is that you have the potential for just about all types of fire, lots of wood and soft furnishings, so sometimes throwing water over it in a controlled manner will be the best method. Electrical fires under the bonnet are probably the most difficult to deal with because unless you can isolate the power the chances are it will re-ignite anyway, plus lifting the bonnet itself is possibly very hazardous. Fuel, either petrol or diesel will be the most lethal and for that the Dry Powder extinguisher, in my opinion, will still prove to be the most effective.

I don't think having more than one extinguisher is the answer. If you cannot safely deal with it quickly and without any personal risk the best thing is to get well clear and wait for the emergency services.

Just my opinion as an ex firefighter.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Geo

Trader - Funster
Jul 29, 2007
11,757
14,563
Mansfield,Notts
Funster No
35
MH
Autotrail Tracker FB
Exp
45 +years with breaks
Im with Karls Rocket fuel theory
ie It attempts to make pressure via a chemical reaction, but cant because of a hole in the business end, resulting in what appears to be a smog under pressure being expelled at a rate equivalent to 41 psi (2.0 Mpa)
I like the equipment I dont like the price
It is not in my opinion a pressurised item, rather it tries to be when poked
G
 
Last edited:
Feb 24, 2013
12,997
101,185
Bolsover, Derbyshire
Funster No
24,833
MH
Hymer S800
Exp
not long enough
I still think the only really safe extinguisher for non trained users is a fire blanket and only then if totally safe to do so

Never open a bonnet to get at an engine fire

and beware of any use of an extinguisher, there is a good chance you will push the fire around with the force, potentially making it bigger

I worked for Angus Fire Armour in my younger days and had to do training on correct use of everything from extinguishers to pumps and hoses, even used AFFF on a fuel fire, theres one for you firefighters to recall :)(y)
 
OP
OP
Wombles

Wombles

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 28, 2013
10,783
11,030
SW England
Funster No
28,783
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
A few years now
Good that there is so much interest in this - 647 views so far - even if there is a lot of scepticism :unsure:
Apparently quite a few Funsters bought these at the Lincoln Show ?! At least there are some other Funsters who also think that it is a good product :imoutahere: :)

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
Wombles

Wombles

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 28, 2013
10,783
11,030
SW England
Funster No
28,783
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
A few years now
Thank you for all your posts,it's a nice item.
Don't take all these comments personally
It's a serious business is fire
Will try not to & will post some more info. that has come directly from FirePal at the risk of kicking all this off again! Agree that it is a serious business.
 
OP
OP
Wombles

Wombles

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 28, 2013
10,783
11,030
SW England
Funster No
28,783
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
A few years now
To try & answer some of the queries raised - this is from the Business Development Manager for FirePal UK David McGregor :
"The FP Range was designed by a Fireman in the UAE due to the fire in the space station where non toxic and lightweight fire fighting equipment was required.
It has been in production for 6 years.
We have all the necessary tests and certificates for selling the product including CE, RNIAS, Bureau Veritas.
It won a Marine industry innovation award in 2003.
There is NO BS standard for this product as it is so new to the market - we understand it is being looked at.
The NCC has rigorously back tracked all certificates and tests and have verified them - as far as we are aware, FirePal is the only extinguishing company to achieve this verification.
The product is made in China (isn't anything made of ABS), however it is manufactured under strict quality control and tested every year.
The extinguishant is a chemical compound of Potassium and a 2nd ingredient (the secret one) which produces a mist of 0.1mg.
The product is environmentally friendly.
The mist is breathable - human & pet safe.
We have been given a "F" rating for cooking oil.
The mist is NOT a Aerosol but the chemical reaction projects it out like a aerosol (hence the description).
The FP range has a 5 year warranty (doesn't need servicing) but we have a test report stating the product lasts for 20 years.
The FirePal extinguisher from Clas Olsen is not connected to our FirePal range (who has the registered name)."
 
Feb 9, 2008
8,924
18,663
Corby, Northants
Funster No
1,455
MH
Coach Built
Exp
Since 2007
Taken from the HSE.
Further requirements relating to fire extinguishers These are set out in ADR 8.1.4.3 - 8.1.4.5: The extinguishing agent has to be suitable for use on a vehicle and has to comply with the relevant requirements of BS EN 3 Portable fire extinguishers, Parts 1 to 6 (BS EN 3-1:1996, BS EN 3-2:1996, BS EN 3-3:1994, BS EN 3-4:1996, BS EN 3-5:1996, and BS EN 3-6:1995) [ADR 8.1.4.3, para. 1]**; The extinguishing agent must not be liable to release toxic gases— (a) into the driver’s cab; or (b) when under the influence of the heat of a fire. [ADR 8.1.4.3, para. 2]; The portable fire extinguishers have to be fitted with a seal verifying that they have not been used. They also have to bear a mark of compliance with a standard** recognized by a competent authority and an inscription at least indicating the date (month, year) of the next recurrent inspection or of the maximum permissible period of use, as applicable. [ADR 8.1.4.4, paras. 1, 2]; The fire extinguishers must be periodically inspected in accordance with authorized national standards** in order to guarantee their functional safety. [ADR 8.1.4.4, para. 3]; The fire extinguishers have to be installed on the transport units in such a way that (i) the vehicle crew can get at them easily; and, (ii) their operational safety is not affected by the weather. Also, ADR 8.2.2.4.5 requires that, as a minimum, individual practical exercises accompanying theoretical training as part of the initial driver training programme must cover: first aid, fire-fighting, and what to do in case of an accident or incident; and, ADR 8.3.2 requires the vehicle crew to know how to use the fire-fighting appliances.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
Wombles

Wombles

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 28, 2013
10,783
11,030
SW England
Funster No
28,783
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
A few years now
More info. - this is a copy of the FirePal leaflet handed out at Shows & with the product:
 

Attachments

  • FP-1-2-3.EN.pdf
    6.9 MB · Views: 43
OP
OP
Wombles

Wombles

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 28, 2013
10,783
11,030
SW England
Funster No
28,783
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
A few years now
Last lot of info. - this is the content of the letter that FirePal send out to potential customers:

"New Fire Extinguishers launched in the UK – why have 3 when you can have 1!

The only Extinguishing agent approved for Liquid/Gas/Electric Fires

I am writing to you to intoduce the new range of personal fire extinguishers, (PFE) to the UK.


Recently introduced into the Marine industry, the FP 50, 100 & 150 are now available in the leisure market.


FACT: 60% of all fires in Motorhomes/Caravans are due to 12v electric failures

65% of all fires in boats are due to 12v electrical failures


The FP range can tackle all fires** (see classifications below)

Broken Link Removed Broken Link Removed Broken Link Removed Broken Link Removed Broken Link Removed Broken Link Removed**

Flamable Liquid Flamable Gas Electrical Oil & Fat Fire Triangle Paper, wood, textiles**

** NB “A” rated, (Carbon), have retained heat that require a “cooling” effect, best achieved by application of cooling, (Water). The PFE will extinguish a “A” rated fire but may re-ignite. It will allow enough time for personal escape

Why buy the FP Range against other established extinguishers?

ü Approved by RINA, SGS & CE – meeting all necessary safety standards

ü Verified product by the NCC – National Caravan Council

ü Size - it is only 20% of the normal size of other extinguishers – easy to handle

ü Weight – 500g - save fuel, allows more habitation space

ü Damage limitation – no effect on electrical circuits or engine air intakes. (Motorhomes/Cars)

ü Easy to operate, Aim, Pull safety ring, Push button - can be used by all ages

ü Environmentally Friendly – non-toxic materials used

ü Non Hazardous – Human safe (Powder is a laxative, Co2 is Asphixiant), PFE does not have this effect

ü No visual residue when used – no expensive clean-up or damage from use

ü 5 Year Warranty – non pressurised, no maintenance required"

Sorry about the missing pictures in the squares but the categories are there :)
 
Aug 10, 2012
834
881
cambridge
Funster No
22,344
MH
Globecar
Exp
since2001
More info. - this is a copy of the FirePal leaflet handed out at Shows & with the product:
Don't think you're going to win on this one

It doesn't comply........ full stop
Don't rely on it, it may make you sad

As they say on dragons den".......... I'm out

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
There is NO BS standard for this product as it is so new to the market

I beg to differ. There is one, they just don't appear able to claim conformity to it.



The extinguishant is a chemical compound of Potassium and a 2nd ingredient (the secret one) which produces a mist of 0.1mg.

The second active ingredient is listed on the data sheet linked to by a couple of people so it isn't that secret :rofl::rofl::rofl:

It's Melamine.

Anyway there's no way on earth anyone would give them any kind of certification without them disclosing all the ingredients so to claim a "secret ingredient" is laughable.

The mist is breathable - human & pet safe.

Tested to Chinese standards or British ones?

but we have a test report stating the product lasts for 20 years.

No they don't.
How can they if it's a new product? They might have a report saying it could or might last for 20 years. Not quite the same is it?


@Wombles I'm having a go at the information you've received from Mr McGregor, not you personally. He's obviously not going to tell you that they've done a half-assed launch of an un tested and un certificated product but that's what it looks like to me.

I've seen things like this come and go for years. If they don't achieve proper British Standard conformity for their product they won't be around long. There are literally hundreds of interesting gadgets being innovated in China every week. It doesn't take much to import a container load of something and set up a website. Not many of these projects make it to the second container.
 
OP
OP
Wombles

Wombles

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 28, 2013
10,783
11,030
SW England
Funster No
28,783
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
A few years now
That's it folks - all the info. direct from FirePal! David McGregor is happy to answer any individual queries with regard to this product - his email is david.m@firepal.co.uk.
 
OP
OP
Wombles

Wombles

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 28, 2013
10,783
11,030
SW England
Funster No
28,783
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
A few years now
Don't think you're going to win on this one
Not about winning for me as I'm not fighting! Just putting the info. out there to be helpful & then down to personal choice. Felt that this product was immediately judged without all the facts & confused with other products (understandable) so wanted to put the official FirePal info. on the thread which I have now done.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
D

Deleted member 29692

Deleted User
Felt that this product was immediately judged without all the facts & confused with other products (understandable) so wanted to put the official FirePal info. on the thread which I have now done.

So are you happy for it to be judged now?

The "official" info changes nothing for me. Still wouldn't touch it with a bargepole or recommend anyone else takes the risk of relying on it, until such time as it has full British Standard conformity and approval. None of the other "certification" it could receive even comes close to the same level.
 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top