Filling (internal) gas tanks on the Forecourt ?

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Chockswahay, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. Chockswahay

    Chockswahay Funster

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    Has any one been refused gas at a petrol station forecourt (that also sells LPG obviously) ?

    The UKLPG User Information Sheet No 26 does not fill me with confidence......

    "It is the advice from UKLPG that user owned, portable LPG cylinders should not be refilled at self service autogas refuelling sites."

    rest of it here....

    http://www.uklpg.org/uploads/DOC4E7749E87E660.pdf

    I wish to fit 2x11kg refillable system (Gas-It or Gaslow) and the advice given by both companies is to fit the remote filling system to an internal locker saving the need to drill holes in the body work etc etc.

    I know there is a thread elsewhere on the subject but my question is simply this.....

    If you have a Fiat based van conversion (or similar) have you ever been refused gas when opening the backdoors to access your gas filling point?
     
  2. haganap

    haganap Funster Life Member

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    My LPG is Gaslow, It is filled by lifting the locker door and then filling. I have had it for nearly 8 years and never been refused here or abroad.

    I am not aware of anyone that has been refused filling here in the UK, although some "rumours" abound of people in France being refused, but again, always someone who was told by someone else.

    The fitting of Gaslow fillers was not reccomended for external fitting in locker doors BTW. I could not locate mine in a place suitable elsewhere, hence why it is mounted on a Gaslow fitting plate.
     
  3. Chockswahay

    Chockswahay Funster

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    I note you have a gas locker on your Bessacarr, my worry is that the forecourt 'attendant' might express concern when I open the van rear doors to fill up with gas :Eek!::Eeek:
     
  4. Jaws

    Jaws Funster Life Member

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    Why not put an external filler on your van ? Never ever any chance of an issue then :thumb:
     
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  5. Addie

    Addie Trader - Motorhome Wifi

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    We went through 300+ liters of gas in our Adria Twin with a gas filler inside the locker behind the back door - never any issues filling up at all UK or abroad.
     
  6. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

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    Ive had one forcourt attendant check I wasnt filling gas bottles directly, and who said it was for automotive engine use only. He did ultimately authorise it though. as I had only opened the locker door to ensure the cylinders were turned off. got a filling point on the side of the van.

    seriously, the filler point doesnt look too different to the water filler so it blends in well
     
  7. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

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    I saw the light and cut a hole in the side for an external filler. They can't tell what you are filling. Also, if you peel "Gaslow" off the filler cover it reads "Autogas".
     
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  8. SIFTA SAM

    SIFTA SAM Read Only Funster

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    If you have a Fiat based van conversion (or similar) have you ever been refused gas when opening the backdoors to access your gas filling point?[/QUOTE]


    I have been refused a refill at the Calorgas Centre at Penwortham, Preston.
    The guy got quite nasty when I enquired for what reason. All he could keep repeating was 'It's not company policy'. No further explanation was forthcoming from their HQ either.
    I have an external filler point, and make sure now that my internal tanks (Stako) are not on show,and up to now that was the only time I have had a problem in the UK.
    I did have some problems in Poland where they actually came out to check what I wanted the LPG for, before refusing to switch the pump on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  9. jezport

    jezport Funster

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    I keep my gas in a bucket as its heavier than air. For some reason they wont let me fill up on the forecourts. Its perfectly safe as the bucket is a fire bucket and has a lid :Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1:
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
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  10. simsy56

    simsy56 Funster

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    I asked at a place in Derbyshire if i could fill gas bottles (American white bottles), the attendant said, "sure, where are they", and filled then up in situ.

    Craig
     
  11. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    I've highlighted the paragraph pertinent to the OP question ..


    Filling LPG gas bottles on forecourts
    Nick Brown made this Freedom of Information request to Health and Safety Executive.


    Dear Sir,

    Please provide the following information:

    1 The guidance given by the Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group on
    the filling of gas bottles with LPG (a) in a bottle refilling plant
    (b) using a properly constructed all-metal bayonet style vehicle
    filling adaptor; and (c) in other respects

    2 The guidance given by the Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group to
    petroleum forecourt operators, on the filling of gas bottles with
    LPG

    3 Whether the recipients of guidance Item 2 above includes
    specifically BP retail, Shell and Asda Stores

    4 The other recipients of the guidance Item 2 above

    5 Guidance on the technical differences (embracing safety and other
    technical aspects) differentiating the filling of a vehicle with
    LPG using a bayonet filler and filling a gas bottle per Item 1(b)
    above.

    For the avoidance of doubt this is a requisition under the Freedom
    of Information Act.

    Yours faithfully
    Nick Brown

    Reply

    Health and Safety Executive

    19 July 2012

    Dear Mr Brown

    I provide the following responses to your questions submitted to HSE on 26
    June 2012 under the Freedom of Information Act.

    The Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group (PELG) was originally formed and
    met under the auspices of HSE. Since 2009 PELG has operated independently
    of HSE and is now hosted by the Energy Institute, although HSE continues
    to provide technical support for the group. The information provided is
    therefore based on HSE's understanding of the guidance given by PELG on
    the issues you have raised.

    Question1. The guidance given by the Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group
    on the filling of gas bottles with LPG:

    (a) in a bottle refilling plant

    Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group (PELG) has not issued any guidance
    with respect to filling of gas bottles in a bottle refilling plant.

    (b) using a properly constructed all-metal bayonet style vehicle filling
    adaptor;

    PELG has not issued guidance with respect to filling gas bottles with an
    adaptor.

    (c) in other respects

    PELG has not issued guidance 'in other respects' aside from that detailed
    under Question 2.

    Question 2 The guidance given by the Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group
    to petroleum forecourt operators, on the filling of gas bottles with LPG.

    PELG has given the following guidance in the publication 'Petrol Filling
    Stations - Guidance on Managing the Risks of Fire & Explosion (The Red
    Guide)' published by CFOA (The Chief Fire Officers' Association) (2010),
    which is aimed at site operators and managers of petrol filling stations
    to enable them to comply with the relevant health & safety law, in
    particular their statutory duties under the Dangerous Substances and
    Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002:

    Portable LPG Cylinders
    23) Customers or untrained attendants should not be allowed to fill
    portable LPG cylinders from the autogas dispenser.

    Note explaining the rationale for this restriction:
    The filling of cylinders (pressure vessels) requires an appropriate level
    of expertise and equipment to ensure that the filling is carried out
    safely. Additionally, the person filling a cylinder needs to carefully
    inspect all the external surfaces (including the base and the valve) for
    evidence of damage; the markings need to be checked to ensure that the
    cylinder is not overdue for periodic testing. After carrying out these
    checks, care has to be taken to prevent overfilling; the percentage fill
    varies with the size of cylinder, this can be 80 to 87%. The filling of
    cylinders requires the use of an adaptor which gives rise to the
    additional risks listed in paragraph 5.14.

    [HI]LPG containers that are securely attached to a vehicle (e.g. camper van)
    for heating or cooking purposes may be filled from the autogas dispenser
    on the proviso that they: - remain in-situ for re-filling;
    - are fitted with an internal device to physically prevent filling
    beyond 80% of the full capacity; and
    - are a fixed filling connector which is not part of the vessel.[/HI]

    Question 3 Whether the recipients of guidance Item 2 above includes
    specifically BP retail, Shell and Asda Stores

    HSE has no information as to whether BP retail, Shell and Asda Stores have
    received or accessed the guidance referred to in Item 2.

    Question 4 The other recipients of the guidance Item 2 above

    HSE has no information as to those who have received or accessed the
    guidance referred to in Item 2.

    Question 5 Guidance on the technical differences (embracing safety and
    other technical aspects) differentiating the filling of a vehicle with LPG
    using a bayonet filler and filling a gas bottle per Item 1(b) above.

    The rationale for the guidance is included in the response to Question 2.

    If you have any queries about this letter, please contact me. Please
    remember to quote the reference number above in any future communications.

    Yours sincerely

    John Hazeldean

    HM Principal Specialist Inspector

    HSE technical representative on PELG

    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/filling_lpg_gas_bottles_on_forec
     
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  12. coldstreamer

    coldstreamer Funster

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    coldstreamer

    Hi,
    Why not put the 'Filler' in the skirt close by, I done this added a couple of brackets underneath for support and never had a problem all over europe in the last 10 yrs.
    I will say I had some good advice if your using re-fillable bottles in Spain, just have one, because finding filling stations is a prob.
    I have one refillable and one to suit the country I'm in, so at home I have gathered over the years.. One English..One French..One German
    One Spanish and One Irish.. so what ever country I am visiting for any lenght of time I pop on. Seems to work.
    Best Regards, Mac
     
  13. Stephen & Jeannie

    Stephen & Jeannie Read Only Funster

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    Fact dear Boy, fact !!!:Blush:

    On the way through France on the border, called at a garage to fill up via an external socket. Started pumping and a French harridan came screaming and yelling from the kiosk shouting it's illegal !! :Doh:

    Played dumb (easy peasy for moi !) and kept going ! she tore the filler from my hands and replaced it !

    Too late, it was full !!:Cool::Cool::Cool:
     
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  14. Viennese

    Viennese Funster

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    Difficult in Oxford

    to fill up LPG tanks on motorhomes - there are only 2 stations, the Cowley one never seems to have any and the other, a big Shell station at well-known Pear Tree roundabout off the A34, keeps having dangerous leaks - see

    http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/10166366.LPG_leak_closes_station_again/

    I have filled up once there and it was really difficult to lock on to the pump - even the station staff, who are actually told NOT to help customers with this, were initially unable to do it. It should be easier to do!

    Catherine
     
  15. MikeandCarolyn

    MikeandCarolyn Read Only Funster

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    OK-I've not had any problems in 3 yrs in UK or Europe. I have an underslung fixed tank with a filler on the coachwork.

    I am aware of 2 regulations governing the sale of LPG on the forecourt both in UK and Europe.
    1. LPG is sold for propulsion and not for domestic use.
    2. The filling of Gas Bottles on a forecourt is not allowed.

    Point 1 is the only one that could affect me so I always fill with LPG first to give the impression that it is for propulsion. My understanding is that this regulation is not often applied.

    Point 2. If you come to a halt beside the LPG pump and open a locker door,what is the attendant going to assume if he sees you doing that ? If he is a 'Job's Worth' and in a bad mood he'll just refuse you gas.

    If you are relying on someones good will to slightly bend the regs or not apply them when he/she thinks (rightly or wrongly) that you are trying to contravene those regs I feel it's best not go get into that situation in the first place. :thumb:

    Mike
     
  16. Spacerunner

    Spacerunner Read Only Funster

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    Had my Gaslow fitted for 4 years now and never been turned away when filling.
    Even in France when, by mistake , I pressed the emergency shut off button, all I got was a 'look' and deep sigh from the French operator as she stomped across the forecourt to reset the pump.
    In Scotland I was put to shame by a delicate young girl who had to assist me to connect the filler hose (stop giggling and wash your minds out) and no comment about the gas cylinders.
    My advice just carry on if one forecourt refuses you just find another someone will want your money.
     
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  17. JeanLuc

    JeanLuc Funster

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    Not so difficult near Oxford though

    I realise this does not give you an Oxford-based solution, but if you tend to travel west from the City, may I suggest you get an account with Countrywide Farmers.
    http://www.countrywidefarmers.co.uk...EnergyAutogas&pgForward=businesscontentbasic#

    They will provide you with an electronic key to their pump network and charge you by direct debit at the end of each month for whatever you have used. Also tell them it is for Motorhome cooking and heating and you will be charged 5% VAT. The nearest pumps to Oxford are at Witney, Chipping Norton and Banbury.
     
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  18. flatpackchicken

    flatpackchicken Funster Life Member

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    Hi Catherine, I to could not get the Peartree connection to work either, think they have a dodgy connector????,, There is also 2 other LPG sites for you to use and they both work ok as i have used both of them living in Bicester Nr you just ib case you dont know about them,, 1 is at the Homefarm BP gge on the n/b A34 just before the M40 and No 2 Is in Bicester on the London road Shell gge just past the old railwaylevel croosing station, both have very good access and both good to fill up with filler on the side on m/h and have had no problem in either. Regards Garry Flatpackchicken
     
  19. Spacerunner

    Spacerunner Read Only Funster

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    Countrywide are brilliant just wish they would set up more outlets.
     
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  20. Chockswahay

    Chockswahay Funster

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    Thank you everyone for your replies :Smile:

    I will probably go for the external filler just to make life easier :Smile:

    Cheers
     
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