Fiat traction?

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Macytia, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. Macytia

    Macytia Read Only Funster

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    Is anyone elses new shape Fiat Ducato terrible on traction on everyting bar tarmac? Mine is terrible on grass, snow etc, and pressumably due to their being no weight over the front wheels:cry: I have just ordered 2 Vredstein winter tyres for the front, hopefully these will give me a bit more bite as all it wants to do is spin the front wheels:Doh:
     
  2. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    not only the new shape......they are all the same.
    ducato + wet grass = forget it!!!!!:Sad:
     
  3. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

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    All the same, useless.

    Winter tyres, if knobbly, will be less safe on wet tarmac. Let us know how you get on.
     
  4. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    you wont get very good mileage from winter tyres.....

    bread tray grip mats. :thumb:

    Oh no!!!! i feel another bread tray thread coming on. :Doh::Laughing:
     
  5. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Please to not encourage these good funsters to break the law :Doh:



    you'll have the BTP (bread tray police) on their case :Rofl1::Rofl1:
     
  6. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

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    It is their weak point with them and all the other same types, new and old! Worse thing you can do on a country lane, is be nice and go on the verge - you'll never get off! lol!

    If you have problems on sites, just reverse up inclines etc! They won't go up any other way!
     
  7. jhorsf

    jhorsf Read Only Funster

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    no professional tyre fitter will install winter tyres on the front only put two on they go on the back I now expect to be told by lots of funsters I am wronghardhat
     
  8. Losos

    Losos Read Only Funster

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    Have a read of this, it would be quite funny if it wasn't so serious :RollEyes: :-

    http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/fiat/12200-3-litre-auto-ducato-manual-gearbox-electronic-clutch.html
     
  9. Macytia

    Macytia Read Only Funster

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    My need is not for full on winter/snow use, I just require a more aggressive tread pattern on the driving wheels. I was set to fit 4 but the local tyre garage said I would only need them on the drive wheels, they have 2 fitted to the rear of their sprinter, standard van tyres on the front. I have however seen the manufacturers sales videos on the net showing the benefit of 4 tyres in the snow and ice.
     
  10. jhorsf

    jhorsf Read Only Funster

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    its dangerous to fit winter tyres to the front only see here

    http://www.michelin.co.uk/michelinu...ather-tyres-wheels-winter/20070319171413.html


    • A front-wheel drive vehicle with winter tyres fitted on the front only is out of balance at the rear, and the vehicle is more prone to spinning.
    • A rear-wheel drive vehicle with winter tyres fitted at the back only is out of balance at the front, and may go straight on at corners.
     
  11. Peter James

    Peter James Read Only Funster

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    If the Fiat Ducato, or any other front wheel drive van, is not getting enough traction that is because there is too much weight on the rear, and not enough on the driving wheels at the front. Weight distribution is the responsibility of the body manufacturer, not the van manufacturer. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to to say Bessacar/Swift or whatever is crap at traction, than Fiat?
     
  12. Macytia

    Macytia Read Only Funster

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    My van is a LWB panel van conversion with a max running order of 3500kg, there is no way of getting any further weight over the front wheels on my van, and as it can run at 3500kg and is no way near that weight, the problem lies with poor design on Fiats part.
     
  13. JohnM

    JohnM Read Only Funster

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    Sorry Jim to late i hve already broken that one.Please dont tell anyone.
    JohnM. :Wink:
     
  14. Peter James

    Peter James Read Only Funster

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    But the converter designs (or ignores?) the weight distribution, not Fiat.

    If it was being used as a panel van the weight would tend to be at the front, piled up at the headboard. It would only be evenly distributed in the unlikely event that the van was chock a block full. It is very unlikely a commercial van would be loaded heavier at the rear like many motorhome conversions permanently are.
     
  15. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    yes, fiat could increase the front axle weight but that would defeat the point in a load carrying vehicle.

    the gross weight cant be increased and still remain at 3500kg and any extra weight on the front axle must be deducted from the rear axle resulting in a lower payload allowance so no point having a front, driving axle at 2500kg to ensure grip and no load capacity at the rear.

    all front wheel drive vans have the same problem....its not the converters fault.
    if anything its fiats fault......too much torque and too low gearing in first.


    my 4X4 hilux is even worse....RWD and no grip.....heavy 2.5ltr diesel lump, gearbox, heavy front axle and transfer box all sat up front.....only rear axle and next to no body weight at the back...wheel spin isnt difficult on wet tarmac.
    any different and it wouldnt have a 1000kg payload.

    try setting off in second on tickover...lower torque and higher gearing.
     
  16. eric 83

    eric 83 Read Only Funster

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    i have actually been stuck more times in my renault master work van more times pro rata than my fiat motorhome, sometimes in places where no one else was there to assist!(no friendly motorhomers):thumb:
     
  17. Peter James

    Peter James Read Only Funster

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    Thats just wrong. You could have 2 axles each plated at 3400kg and a 3500kg overall weight. But it woudn't be economic to over engineer a commercial van like that. Also the lack of traction is nothing to do with the gearing. Its the percentage of the weight on the driving wheels. Thats the point of 4 wheel drive, to get more of the weight on the driven wheels, and less dead weight.
     
  18. Macytia

    Macytia Read Only Funster

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    @ Peter,

    Does that mean that there will be no benefit of fitting grippier tyres? I got stuck in a snowy carpark in the Lakes and got out eventually in 5th gear, I suppose having the van Remapped doesn't help either due to the increased torque at the front wheels.
     
  19. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    so...if the converters make the rear body from single skin aluminium and put all the equipment and water tanks right at the front leaving just a bed at the back that would make it better ?

    my kontiki has axle weights of 1850kg front and 2120kg rear.
    that 1850kg includes the engine, gearbox, axle and running gear and bodywork including the overcab bulge.....then the two of us !

    doesnt leave a lot to play with as far as moving stuff to the front goes. :Eeek:
     
  20. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    yes peter, you could.

    but a physical impossibilty in reality.....a 3400kg front axle will leave 100kg at the rear....that 100kg has got to include the chassis, axle and bodywork.

    just the same as a 3400kg rear wil leave 100kg at the front.

    you cannot exceed the gross no matter what the individual axle weights are.
    so again...a physical impossibilty.

    lack of traction has everything to do with gearing and torque.

    the higher a gear the less torque is transmitted to the road...why do you think you change down to go up hill.....more torque in a lower gear for a given rev range.
     
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