fiat red key

Discussion in 'Hymer' started by con-tiki, Nov 24, 2011.

  1. con-tiki

    con-tiki Funster

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    I have the fiat ducatto chassis on my 2000 reg B564. I've only got 1 ignition black key. The master key has been lost along the way. I can get another keyed 'cloned' to have a spare, but worry in case I need this master key in the future. I want to change the stereo cassette player for a cd player. As I have to disconnect the battery, will this cause any problem?Fiat have said if I don't have the master key, then the ECU, ignition and a new set keys will have to be replaced at a cost of £1000 ! :Eeek: What a stupid system, as Fiat should have known that some people don't look after their keys.....I didn't realise this when I bought the motorhome :cry:

    Shirl
     
  2. aba

    aba

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    hi in the documentation we got with ours all be it a new van there was a small card that has the electronic key code and a physical key code numbers on it.
    they may have misplaced the keys but this may be in the documents you got from the previous owner.
     
  3. normanandsue

    normanandsue Funster

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    I have a Peugeot Boxer which is basically the Fiat Ducatto by another name and I had my valves replaced in the engine which involved disconnecting the electrics. I left the keys with the garage but kept the red key at home. When they came to test the engine when it had been reassembled they could not start it without the red key, nor could they have managed it without a code that the previous owner had kindly written on a tag with the red key. I think they could have got the code from Peugeot but it would have increased my bill for the time they spent looking.
    So yes the red key is essential - whether it can be replaced other funsters may be able to advise, look out for a reply from Peter at John Cross motors I am sure he will have the most accurate answer to your problem.

    Sorry not a great deal of help other than confirming you are in dangerous territory without your red key. Don't touch the radio.

    Norman
     
  4. beachcaster

    beachcaster Read Only Funster

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    When I bought my secondhand autotrail /fiat..I got 2 sets of keys.
    But I cant find the card with electronic code anywhere.

    Does this mean that if I dissconnect the battery I will be in trouble ?

    I take it this only applies to the vehicle battery and not the habitation battery ??


    barry
     
  5. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    i believe the only way to get a new red key is with a new ECU and immobiliser......around £800 to £1000.

    the red key not only holds the programming codes for replacement keys but also the access/reset code for the ECU and immobiliser programming.

    i believe the PIN cards were only issued AFTER the red key system was discontinued...around 2002/3 i think.

    Active (programmed) black keys are now relatively easy to get, but not the red key.
     
  6. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    Fiat should be able to supply the code via the VIN number...but there will surely be a charge :Sad:
     
  7. Popeye

    Popeye Funster

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    I occasionally deal with Fiat cars not commercials and I think Pappajohn has got it in one, though I'm not sure about the date it changed to the black twin key set-up.

    The only car I ever took in without the red key cost the dealership almost £1000 to remedy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2011
  8. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    just found a cheaper workaround if the ECU needs replacing...

    i don't know anything about these, but my feeling is the immobiliser circuit may be disabled so your insurers may not like it !.

    'Free running' ECU replacement units without the need for a red key.


    <<<HERE>>>



    Just as i thought.....disabled immobiliser circuit in these.

    from the same website.



    Free running ECU’s

    Free running ECU’s are specially built with no immobilizer code function programmed in to the EPROM. These units are very useful when a problem arises with the vehicles coded key immobilizer function, it can be very expensive to replace the whole coded key system usually around £1200.00, we can supply a free running ECU for around £195 depending on application.

    A free running ECU is also useful if you are not sure your problem is coming from the ECU or the coded key immobilizer, free running ECU’s cure both problems as they run independently of the vehicles immobilizer. These units will not need to be reprogrammed by the main dealer saving further fitting costs.

    All free running ECU’s have a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2011
  9. con-tiki

    con-tiki Funster

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    Apparently the system as well as having the master key (red key) they also had a card with the electronic code and mechanical codes on it, but the ones for the uk market were not issued to owners because the uk insurance companies would not allow the owners to keep them. I have been told that you can get the card from Fiat for a charge of about £30, but itdoes not address the problem of the 'lost' master key.

    Shirl
     
  10. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    Shirl,

    It does depend on the age of the van, the older vans did have a red key issued at sale.

    The later ones had the key code card, sorry cannot remember the exact details but the workshop staff will know.

    Peter
     
  11. freelanderuk

    freelanderuk Read Only Funster

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    i disconnected the battery on my ducato to replace the radio and did not have a problem , if you are worried leave the battery connected and remove the fuse for the radio
     
  12. motorhomelover

    motorhomelover

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    it is one of the big cons the dealerships have ford charge £20 for the key blank then more to cut it then over £80 to set the chip one big rip off
    BMW Mercedes Ford, fiat and all the others do the same
    it can be cheaper to replace all the locks
    with new barrels and Keys
    or you may get a full set from a breakers yard
    a lot of extra work for no real gain
     
  13. normanandsue

    normanandsue Funster

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    This is a bad expereince and the only thing to do, with a bad experience is to learn from it and pass the experience on to others so they are made aware of the dangers when buying a second hand van.
    Does anyone know when the red key system came into use and when it was no longer in use?
    This information would be helpful to people buying motorhomes of around the 1998 vintage so they know when to ask for a second set of keys including a red one. I for one was not aware of the significance of the red key until my engine was rebuilt last year and it is only by the grace of God I was not faced with the same problem as you.

    Norman
     
  14. lesleyjean

    lesleyjean Funster

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    Hi,

    mine is a 2002 Swift Kontiki and I have the red key system.

    So still red keys in 2002

    Lesley
     
  15. beachcaster

    beachcaster Read Only Funster

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    Just went into my fiat dealer and he confirmed the above.
    No card needed for a recent Fiat

    barry
     
  16. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    been searching the web about this and i found.......

    if your ignition key has a 2 stamped on the metal part of the key and possible a diamond, then it is second generation and no red key is needed.

    still cant find those elusive dates though. :Doh:
     
  17. Gorsecover59

    Gorsecover59 Funster

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    Recently got a spare key for my new ( to me) 2002 Ducato sundance.

    Key £155

    Code £35

    Coding charge £38

    Total £228 At least Dick Turpin wore a mask..........but then again this is Jersey and we are all millionaires !!!!!

    Would be interested to know when the red key "thinghy" was changed to just a code........and am I in that situation as I dont have a red key.......or was it just not passed on ????

    Many Thanks
    Martin
     
  18. Gorsecover59

    Gorsecover59 Funster

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    Able to answer my own question..........
    My handbook says (if all else fails read the instructions) my model which is a 2002 sundance only had 2 keys and no red one.
    The keys also have the number 2 stamped on them as previously posted.
    Martin
     
  19. Gorsecover59

    Gorsecover59 Funster

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    Moi Again


    Forgot to mention I have my engine battery isolated whenever we are not using the van and as of yet have not had a problem..........so no worries with a flat/disconnected battery.
    Martin
     
  20. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    Almost certain it was 2003.

    early JTD's may have one (not sure) but later (2003 on) JTD's dont.

    a 2003 ducato may be an older year model just registered later.
     
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