Fiat fuel filter leaking...AGAIN FFS

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by injebreck99, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. injebreck99

    injebreck99 Funster

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    Arrived home from MOT station today, smelt diesel, lifted bonnet, bla**y fuel filter leaking again, this is the 4th time in 3 years of ownership, the last time it was looked at by a Fiat dealer, it already had a new genuine filter and seal fitted last June, now leaking again!.
    I bought a Taylormade bike cover from a fellow funster last weekend, and he was showing us around his new AT Tracker, (lucky sod), I mentioned the perennial filter leak problem, we looked under the bonnet of his new M/H, lo and behold, a new type of filter, a metal canister one now it seems, I wonder if they can be swopped to my 09 model.:Doh:
     
  2. beachcaster

    beachcaster Read Only Funster

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    Mine went on me .and I fitted a new one....correctly to the right torque etc.
    They are a rubbish plastic design that is hardly fit for purpose.

    When my 2009 auto trail goes in for a service I tell the garage NOT to go anywhere near it and to leave it alone.

    barry
     
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  3. jhorsf

    jhorsf Read Only Funster

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    I have not had my 09 changed they are told leave it alone
     
  4. DuxDeluxe

    DuxDeluxe Funster Life Member

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    Same here. I got the purpose built cage for torquing it up - future son in law (head technician for local Ford dealership) fixed it after Fiat (alleged) professional made it leak twice and nobody else touches it ........
     
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  5. Techno

    Techno Funster Life Member

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    I'm happy to do my own so no one to blame if it does but me :thumb:
     
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  6. Techno

    Techno Funster Life Member

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    There is such a shadow of doubt cast over this subject but I am convinced that the filter housing is fit for purpose as designed if it is treated with respect. It is apparent that some garages are known (even Fiat ones) not to have or use the appropriate tools for this job.
    I carry a spare just in case my mouth is too big :Laughing: but in time I feel sure I'll prove myself correct.
    Sorry yours has suffered again
    FOUR times? have you kept a note of who what where and when? all the same garage/different mechanics etc. No consolation that you might have a warranty for the part if it was the labour that stuffed it up.
     
  7. injebreck99

    injebreck99 Funster

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  8. Techno

    Techno Funster Life Member

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    Have you considered just fitting a complete new original filter housing with filter element installed? this will cost £115 or less and you only need a posidrive screwdriver to swap it.
    Problems only arise with this unit after an element has been renewed.
    I've no idea if you can change your filter to a canister type but it would be good for the members if you can find out and report back.

    I don't know if you've seen my guide? but if not you'll gain some insight at least.
    http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/tech-...el-fuel-filter-replacing-pictures-part-i.html

    http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/tech-...er-replacing-pictures-part-ii.html#post934068
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  9. gloworm

    gloworm Funster

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    I have posted this before, its not going to be a cure, but mine let me down in Germany in june 2012, i bought a new filter with seal and fitted it, my friend held the filter body while i tightend the top by hand, it is still running trouble free, so i think its the luck of the draw, could be the seals, some fit some dont,



    Eric:thumb:
     
  10. injebreck99

    injebreck99 Funster

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    I am in touch with Fiat to see if the change of filter is possible, I will let everybody know of the results.
     
  11. DuxDeluxe

    DuxDeluxe Funster Life Member

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    The torque recommended for tightening is very high for a plastic canister, which is why you need the cage device to tighten without damaging it. The seal itself is rather small which is a surprise. I suspect that our Fiat (alleged) Professional garage didn't bother. Once the future son in law did it using the device and the correct torque there were no problems. It is about £16 off eBay.

    Very poor bit of design and it looks like new ones are much better
     
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  12. dave newell lvs

    dave newell lvs Trader-Vehicle Services

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    I had a couple leak before I invested in the cage tool and none since. I do use a torque meter to tighten the top ring to specified 35nm.

    D.
     
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  13. injebreck99

    injebreck99 Funster

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    I agree that to make this housing out of plastic is ludicrous, but Istill think that the seal is the culprit, it is too thin and is not compressed enough to give a reliable seal.
    Has anybody bought one from Opie oils, the link was in a previous post, cannot be any worse than the Fiat item, this ongoing problem is destroying my enjoyment of owning this M/H. :cry:
     
  14. Techno

    Techno Funster Life Member

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  15. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Genuine questions no hidden agendas and i dont intend to pursue any arguments on the replies just simple answers please

    The Tool

    Is the tool sold by Fiat
    Is the tool Fiat approved
    Is the use of the tool approved by Fiat

    The torque setting
    Is the setting set by Fiat
    is the setting approved by Fiat
    If all the answers are yes please point me to the data and fiats part No for the tool
    My local Fiat dealer says he's never heard of it wich might go someway to explaining why most Fiat Garages dont use it:RollEyes:

    If the answers are No ---- Who did all the approvals and torque figures, Who makes the tool
    I see Dave Uses the tool with some measure of success :Cool:
    And if all is Fiat approved I will get the Fiat version not the ebay variety see below for reasons

    In order to protect our selves from the blame and claims departments we have to demonstrate due diligence, and use of correct tools,and procedure Im envisaging a claim for new filter housing and associated pipework should a failure result from using this device because deviation from approved methods is also called negligence, and I can see one slip costing more than the job is worth, could we see a reluctance from garages to carry out fuel filter changes due to the negative reports seen on forums, leaving the job to the owners
    As strange as it seems using nothing may well find me protected, using unapproved methods will sink me for sure.

    What say you? who clearly blame both independent and Fiat Garages alike for their fitters incompetence in this issue, but never the filter designers or manufacturers to any great degree
    These are all serious observations
    Who is to blame, What is the correct approved procedure,
    Geo
    We cant all be to blame surely and the only good fitter out there are Diy'ers
     
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  16. beachcaster

    beachcaster Read Only Funster

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    When I asked my independent ( commercial) fiat dealer if he used this tool he said no. He went on to explain they had been in business for many years and knew what they were doing. This is probably true ....but what happens when you get the new boy servicing your vehicle ? That is why I give him instructions in writing on each service to leave it alone.
    The parts are genuine fiat...the instructions are as far as I remember on the filter and certainly on or with the packaging.
    It is crap design.........over complex and plastic...it is also far too expensive.

    barry
     
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  17. DuxDeluxe

    DuxDeluxe Funster Life Member

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    Geo raises a good point, so we are lucky in that we do it ourselves without any potential liability issues.

    However, surely it is demonstrating due diligence by using a device that evens the load on the cartridge preventing possible hidden fracturing and future failure and fire risk due to the same, and also one that facilitates tightening to the correct torque setting whilst minimising the scope for error. Just a simplistic point of view, fiat part or not.

    Don't want to cause any arguments as Geo has to look very closely at liability and possible legal exposure at every turn and it is right to be cautious in these litigious days.

    It ain't leaked since we used this device, though
     
  18. Techno

    Techno Funster Life Member

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    I don't think the tool is fiats but the filter housing manufacturers UFI's
    The data sheet posted as a bulletin as been posted in threads on more than one occasion. If fiat don't recognise this more fool them

    EDIT the Fiat service course manual clearly shows a similar device which protects the filter housing in a vice. It doesn't show a large pair of pipe grips :Laughing:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
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  19. jenny and mitch

    jenny and mitch Funster

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    Hi Peter.. ( Injebreck ) I am the funster you got the 'Taylormade' from... SO sorry to hear that the fuel filter is leaking yet again... I would be very tempted to see what the bosch unit costs and swap the lot.... But easy for me to say I know... I would also check that all the electrical and pipe connections are the same, or warning light systems may malfunction.!
    They ARE Italian after all !!! Good luck mate... DONT let this spoil your enjoyment from your van... We have both had to solve mechanical problems all our working lives for OTHER people, but for ourselves, its always a bit harder.. The "nigger in the woodpile" is FIAT, who have known about this sh*t filter for years.!!! Good luck mate, if you want me to try and find a part No from mine, give me a 'bell'.. Mitch.. PS.. Peter it seems reading on other forums that when the new and old filter SEAL are compared, that the old one is always 'larger' than the new. !!! This would indicate to me, that the rubber is not made of the correct grade and is deteriorating and distorting in contact with the fuel..!!! Just a thought mate !!!

    Good luck...
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
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  20. DP_JAY

    DP_JAY Funster Life Member

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    So what you would have us believe is that you only use genuine parts & that every spanner or tool you use is approved by the vehicle manufacturer?:Eeek:
     
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