Fiat Ducato X230L Front suspension

Discussion in 'Tech/Mech General' started by Reptillian, Feb 4, 2015.

  1. Reptillian

    Reptillian

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    OK so now for my little problem. I noticed that the front end of my 1998 Ducato was dipping on the drivers side, and the rear single leafs were bowed and twisted. so I decided to go full hog and put new rear springs on, twin leaf update the air suspension from the fire stone system to Dunlop. anyway all done and still dipping on the front end, now worse than before. so thought it was the springs. so new shocks and new springs fitted and the front end went straight down on the stops. I have fitted 1800kg springs on the front with same size shocks. the rear has the same 1800kg shocks. so thought it could possibly be the chassis that has twisted! :worried: just had this checked and it's spot on :clap:. the passenger side is fine... I have also just had the bathroom done refitted due to a leak in the roof, cost a fair bit and really don't want to get rid of my MH (fondly known as Charlie the Cherokee) :crying1: Garage seem to think that as the body is mainly wood it is water logged, but I have had the damp checked when I had the bathroom done and it is OK. any one got any ideas? or can you help?
     
  2. greygit

    greygit Read Only Funster

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    I would be checking the front springs to see if they are the right ones as new spring should give you the lift you expected not to droop even lower.
     
  3. Reptillian

    Reptillian

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    Hi Greygit, Yep checked all that as the company I originally got the springs sent me 1100kg from Munroe, only found this out when I spoke to Munroe direct, as when I put them together it dropped straight onto the stop, they advised of the correct springs which were then put on order and delivered a couple of weeks later as they had to come from Belgium, and they are considerably bigger, the bar being 20mm and not the 17mm they originally sent. and it is only the offside that has the sag the near side is looking really good and riding quite high so if and when I get the driver side done it should drop a little and both sides should ride equal. so gonna check into a weighbridge later check each wheel separately (hopefully) this will/should tell me if there is a difference in the weight over each wheel, or an excessive difference over the offside wheel, but I am not sure this is the problem cos that would have to be a lot of water!! so the next stage, well will have to wait until it's weighed then I can think of the next step. may need to find a suspension specialist, been looking but can't find a single one in Bristol or surrounding area. so if anyone knows anyone please let me know. thanks (y)
     
  4. greygit

    greygit Read Only Funster

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    Is there a torsion bar involved in the suspension?

    Is the air system set up installed right?

    I would have thought any garage familiar with Fiat Ducatos would be able to get the heart of the problem. I have been out of the motor trade now for thirty odd years but I would have found this problem, with the right equipment, a challenge to overcome so find find a garage that likes a challenge. :)
     
  5. Reptillian

    Reptillian

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    yea great thought but unfortunately the torsion bar does not exist on mine, shame cos that would have been easy, my life is not so, if it's gone be long winded complicated and difficult then it usually gets dished my way.. OK so weights are from rear nearside anti clockwise, 800- 870 - 835 and 725kg, so springs and shocks should be well able to cope? so you'd think, so think the water reason is out, ok so I wasn't completely square on the plate but gives a pretty good idea. (me thinks). so I get home and guess what the cover for the lower pulley on the belt is missing, and there is a bolt loose on the frame across the engine, now not a happy bunny and no one will own up to it.. it's not just finding a garage that likes a challenge it's finding one that I can now trust.. found out that the guy that should have put the springs on didn't it was given to someone else to do. I knew I should have done it myself as I originally intended... nother lesson badly learnt. :swear: :banghead: so will be checking some other stuff later. am thinking bout putting a dehumidifier in the van for a bit as I know there is some water in the body from the leaking roof we had, but not enough to cause the problem I am having... so I did think I would know where to go from here but to be honest I am lost..

    The air bags are fine and doing a sterling job can feel them working as you feel the difference in the sound and feel on the road, plus I am no longer getting that horrible bang bang from the old springs and shocks not keeping the rear wheels on the road properly.. so is actually quite smooth... where to go and what to do from here is any ones guess, so may not be going away this year either!!! :crying1:
     
  6. jockaneezer

    jockaneezer Funster

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    Bit of a long shot but worth checking as you didn't have much faith in the fitter, run your hand over the inside sidewall at the top of the tyre and feel how far it is off the spring, then compare this with the other side. My son's Polo was sitting down on one side after he had hit a pot hole, the wheel mounting assembly was bolted to the bottom of the strut with two pinch bolts and these had moved. We stripped it out and reset it to the witness marks left by the paint. Good luck !
     
  7. greygit

    greygit Read Only Funster

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    I would be looking for a missing spacer or shim but I think it night be a complete strip-down of the front suspension so that you can compare the parts to see if you have the same number of components for both sides.......you could also compare the spring heights when off the vehicle as well.
     
  8. buckby

    buckby

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    Could it be the top bearing on the strut top I do know that they don't like being took of when they get old I did one years ago and the bearings fell out.
    The only problem is you will have to take the strut out to see try and jack the front up and take a measure from the wheel to the wheel arch I changed mine last year to E&p springs and they are huge compared to the originals these created loads of lift on the front
     
  9. buckby

    buckby

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    Just found these pictures of the VB comfort springs
    21069-3d1c1a118fc9f8390901d173f0898092.jpg

    21070-4cc7961ed8114bd3d3b08e676a3ae79e.jpg

    21071-13959c6750a8008b2226699a8fe69704.jpg
     
  10. Reptillian

    Reptillian

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    yep been there and as all parts are new nothing missing and springs are identical. thanks
     
  11. Reptillian

    Reptillian

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    no I replaced the top mounts, the bearings the rubber anti vibration ring and the top metal plate so all new.. thanks
     
  12. Reptillian

    Reptillian

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    thanks for this, I have emailed VB them regarding the springs to see if they may have something. I did look at them for the air ride but they don't do them for the age of my vehicle. I know there is a company that do heavier longer springs in yellow, but can't remember who they were or what site I was on when I saw them.
     
  13. Reptillian

    Reptillian

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    Thanks for all the help and suggestions. so I am going to get a dehumidifier, I have seen a eco air dd122FW seems to be the way next, plus it will do for future use and in the home. I know there will be some water in the walls, being ali over wood and polystyrene in the roof so may have an effect. but will have to weight and see!! I also thought that on the offside there are two propane bottles a leisure battery which there isn't on the nearside. plus all the storage is on the offside which probably doesn't help. an inflatable boat, the drive-away awning not to mention lots of other stuff I forgot about. so all this probably doesn't help either. still it shouldn't be that far down considering it is till just under the max limit. so will keep trying. if any one does come with other companies that do longer and heavier springs would love to know. thanks again.
     
  14. Reptillian

    Reptillian

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    OK so I lied, I have spoken with a company in Devon after I emailed VB, said they do have two types of spring a lighter one and a heavy duty, they also do the full kit, damn wish I had emailed them in the first place. but looking at the site for VB it showed only newer models. therefore todays lesson has been learnt, never assume always ask. :oops:
     
  15. Reptillian

    Reptillian

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    Ok so now for an update. I have put a dehumidifier in and it's working a treat. I have removed the interior lights and all is looking good, no rotten wood all looking clean and no water marks. I have a damp meter coming today, but I don't think it is damp, and since I have had the bathroom done I really want to get away this year. so am really lost and confused now. does anyone know if the wishbone bushes help or would hinder the suspension?

    OK so I have spoken with Autotrail who advise that the ex works weight is 2700kgs with a total GVW of 3200kgs. now then I have just looked at the plate and it shows, 3500kgs, then 5100kgs, which I can only assume is the GTW (combined towing weight) then it shows, 1- 1850kgs 2- 2120kgs, which I assume are the axle weights, but this adds up to 3970kgs, can any one help with my understanding of the weights as shown on the plates. going on this I am not overweight but still under.

    I also have another little problem i'm smoking far too much, this didn't happen before, and I have just noticed that the rocker cover cap has a little white sludge in it! that's gonna make the other half happy, water in the oil, can anything else go wrong!! she already wants to sell. but how can I knowing there a few minor issues, and I can't afford a newer one... :confused:
     
  16. ericroy

    ericroy Funster

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    Those are the maximum PERMITTED axle weights but the combined ACTUAL weights on the axles must still be no more than the maximum GVW which is 3500Kg. It means that there is some flexibility in the front/rear distribution of the weight.
     
  17. Reptillian

    Reptillian

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    Thank you, that's what I thought, just need a bit of reassurance. So who do I believe the plate or autotrail, who gave me the weights as ex works 2700 and total of 3200, 300kgs under the plated weight? so now all I have to do is work out why it looks like I am over weight, get that sorted then i'm good to fly.
     
  18. DP_JAY

    DP_JAY Funster Life Member

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    Looking at those figures you are about 180kg heavier on one side, most of which is on the front.
    That's quite a lot & wont help the " listing".
     
  19. buckby

    buckby

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    It may not be water in the oil it could just be condensation in the rocker cover especially if you are starting the engine then stopping it without going for a run
     
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