Electric Hook Up Power (1 Viewer)

Jan Pendreigh

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Feb 23, 2008
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Having used the campsite at Cottington Lakes, Deal on many occasions over the past two years with no power problems whatsoever, we were concerned on arrival on Wednesday when our power supply kept tripping out. Worried, we asked whether there were problems, and were informed that they have reduced the supply from 10amp to under 6amp!

We have motorhomed for many years and do not waste power, but now think that in addition to raising the nightly fee anyway this is a bit much.

Jan
 

scotjimland

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Hi Jan

I know where your coming from but with leccy now costing 15p per kw even a frugal user can use 10 kw per day .. during the cold snap we were using 50kw .. :whatthe: so that was costing the owner £7.50 per day .. with site fees at only £8 they were in effect making a loss.
Now they have installed pre pay meters and dropped the nighly fee by £1.. which I think is the fairest way all round..
I can see a lot of sites either raising the pitch fee, reducing supply or going for meters..

I discussed pricing with the owner, and if the unit cost drops they will adjust the meters accordingly as it is illegal to resell at a profit..

A quick calculation:
on your site, if you used it to the max, with a 5A ehu , = 1.15kw x 24 hrs = 27.6kw = £4.14 per day.


Jim

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Last edited:

Douglas

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Come south, come south. though I must admit its the coldest winter I have known for a long while, we have friends in Le mons and they report that they had temps down to -18', brrrrrrr.

Doug..
 
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sinbad1

Deleted User
Having used the campsite at Cottington Lakes, Deal on many occasions over the past two years with no power problems whatsoever, we were concerned on arrival on Wednesday when our power supply kept tripping out. Worried, we asked whether there were problems, and were informed that they have reduced the supply from 10amp to under 6amp!

We have motorhomed for many years and do not waste power, but now think that in addition to raising the nightly fee anyway this is a bit much.

Jan

I agree its all about providing a service, most people would find a 6A hookup inconvenient, especially in the colder weather.

If you don't keep your customers happy then you will loose them:Sad:

Regards

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scotjimland

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I agree its all about providing a service, most people would find a 6A hookup inconvenient, especially in the colder weather.

If you don't keep your customers happy then you will loose them:Sad:

Regards

I agree they are a service but can't be expected to operate at a loss,.. so they either raise pitch fees or reduce power, or a combination of both, neither popular... or reduce pitch fees and invest in leccy meters and let guests pay for what they use... no one can then argue about what they are being charged, if they waste it, they pay for it..
 

madbluemad

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I would go along with that. Reduce the site fee and put meters in. The amount of peple that you see on sites who never go out and would rather sit in and watch telly while drinking tea is amazing. We had one family next to us who had a huge flag mast fully decked out with lights that were on 24hrs per day.:whatthe:

Jim :Smile:
 

scotjimland

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I would go along with that. Reduce the site fee and put meters in. The amount of peple that you see on sites who never go out and would rather sit in and watch telly while drinking tea is amazing.

and in all probability have a 3kw fan heater running all day.. then leave it in the awning when they go out.. costing 45p per hr to run :RollEyes:

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dylan

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Just out of intrest Jim where do I find out about these hook up meters?
 
Jul 29, 2007
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Hi can't really see the problem with a low amperages, most motorhomes/RV's can be run almost entirely from gas, you just need a bit to keep your batteries topped up, for us anything over 4amps is enough.

Olley
 

scotjimland

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Hi can't really see the problem with a low amperages, most motorhomes/RV's can be run almost entirely from gas, you just need a bit to keep your batteries topped up, for us anything over 4amps is enough.

Olley

That's a good point..
since we went on metered leccy I've cut back to less than 5kw per day ..well I am a tight ass Scot ..

wear a jumper .. it's NOT cold :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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sinbad1

Deleted User
and in all probability have a 3kw fan heater running all day.. then leave it in the awning when they go out.. costing 45p per hr to run :RollEyes:

Like i said you either provide a service or not, providing a less than adequate power supply in my opinion doe's not make your client group happy and at the end of the day customers will not return.

Most campsites don't open untill april and IMO the majority don't burn loads and loads of electrical units ;but there's always the odd one. Fulltimers on sites will in comparison consume a considerable number of units , because their needs are greater than a visiting camper.

If the cost of my gas or electric goes up we simply pay more /unit my supply is not reduced:Sad:

IMO the best way would be to increase or decrease the electric accordingly.

Regards
 
Jul 29, 2007
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Some campsites simply cannot provide high amperages, if your out in the wild's on single phase theirs no way you could pay the cost to bring in 3 phase. A guy I know was looking at opening a campsite in suffolk, it was going to cost £40,000 to bring 3 phase into the site, and he's not allowed to make a profit on the electric! crazy.

Planning booted the idea in to touch anyway. :Angry:

Olley

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scotjimland

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Most campsites don't open untill april and IMO the majority don't burn loads and loads of electrical units ;but there's always the odd one. Fulltimers on sites will in comparison consume a considerable number of units , because their needs are greater than a visiting camper.

If the cost of my gas or electric goes up we simply pay more /unit my supply is not reduced:Sad:

IMO the best way would be to increase or decrease the electric accordingly.

Regards

Fulltimers needs are greater.. in what respect .. how to you figure that out ?

I agree, pay more if you burn more..

So you are in favour of cutting the supply to prevent waste .. rather than fitting meters and charging for what is used ?

I'm confused ,

If you were a site owner and losing money, partly because the electric bill had gone through the roof, what would you do.. ?

a) Increase pitch fees
b) Reduce supply to 6A
c) Lower pitch fees and install meters
d) Other ?
 

dylan

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Fulltimers needs are greater.. in what respect .. how to you figure that out ?

I agree, pay more if you burn more..

So you are in favour of cutting the supply to prevent waste .. rather than fitting meters and charging for what is used ?

I'm confused ,

If you were a site owner and losing money, partly because the electric bill had gone through the roof, what would you do.. ?

a) Increase pitch fees
b) Reduce supply to 6A
c) Lower pitch fees and install meters
d) Other ?

Interesting post Jim - Our camp site electrics (6 x 16amp double hook ups) did cost alot to install, although Mark dug trenches for the cable himself to save money, we don't have any intention of going 6amp and we are keeping to 10 pound per night this year but on checking our leccy bill for 2007 the price per unit has doubled in 2009.
Sorry but next year pitch prices may have to go up.
Not sure about installing metres.:Confused: We can only carry on so long !
 

scotjimland

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checking our leccy bill for 2007 the price per unit has doubled in 2009.
Sorry but next year pitch prices may have to go up.
Not sure about installing metres.:Confused: We can only carry on so long !

Hi Dylan

you are not alone..

I've spoken to several small site owners and they are all finding it hard to make a profit.. Our present site made a loss last year with pitch fees inc leccy at £8 ..

She has reduced the fee to £7 and put meters in .. costing about £100 each, her husband did the installing ..

She was all but ready to call it a day .. if she can't turn it around this year she may well close.. :Sad: said she could make more renting it out to horses with a lot less hassle :Doh:

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dylan

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Hi Dylan

you are not alone..

I've spoken to several small site owners and they are all finding it hard to make a profit.. Our present site made a loss last year with pitch fees inc leccy at £8 ..

She has reduced the fee to £7 and put meters in .. costing about £100 each, her husband did the installing ..

She was all but ready to call it a day .. if she can't turn it around this year she may well close.. :Sad: said she could make more renting it out to horses with a lot less hassle :Doh:

I will keep fingers crossed for her and for us.
 
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sinbad1

Deleted User
Fulltimers needs are greater.. in what respect .. how to you figure that out ?

I agree, pay more if you burn more..

So you are in favour of cutting the supply to prevent waste .. rather than fitting meters and charging for what is used ?

I'm confused ,

If you were a site owner and losing money, partly because the electric bill had gone through the roof, what would you do.. ?

a) Increase pitch fees
b) Reduce supply to 6A
c) Lower pitch fees and install meters
d) Other ?


It was farly obvious i was referring to the unit cost and not a reduction of supply

from the previous sentance

quote
If the cost of my gas or electric goes up we simply pay more /unit my supply is not reduced:Sad:

to answer the questions if i were an owner.
a) Increase pitch fees ....................................NO electric should be a separate item
b) Reduce supply to 6A ..................................NO providing a poor service
c) Lower pitch fees and install meters ..............NO high cost outlay customer will pay more at the end of the day( see previous posts on this issue)
d) Other ? .........................................................change the additional pitch cost for electric .

There may be a case for those that are long stay fulltimers on meters ;but not for the campers that come and go.

How would you react jim if your site was reduced to 6amps?

Regards
 

scotjimland

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d) Other ? .........................................................change the additional pitch cost for electric .

There may be a case for those that are long stay fulltimers on meters ;but not for the campers that come and go.

How would you react jim if your site was reduced to 6amps?

Regards


So you don't want increased pitch fees but want increased charges to cover leccy on the pitch fees ?

I don't understand..

And you haven't answered, why should a fulltimer be different from anyone else ? How can we, on a daily basis, use more than anyone else.. ?

If my site reduced the supply I would either adjust or leave.. but they didn't, they cut the pitch fee and installed meters .. we now use less than 5kw per day .. so a 6 amp supply would be more than adequate ..

as it's going round in circles I'm dropping out of this thread ..

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sinbad1

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So you don't want increased pitch fees but want increased charges to cover leccy on the pitch fees ?

I don't understand..

And you haven't answered, why should a fulltimer be different from anyone else ? How can we, on a daily basis, use more than anyone else.. ?

If my site reduced the supply I would either adjust or leave.. but they didn't, they cut the pitch fee and installed meters .. we now use less than 5kw per day .. so a 6 amp supply would be more than adequate ..

as it's going round in circles I'm dropping out of this thread ..

Yes its simple you have the basic pitch with no hookup = say £12
if you require EHU then you would pay the additional electric charge £12 + E

If you full time your energy needs are greater, bigger battery banks washing m/c etc that goes with fulltiming, I know i've done that for many years.
As you have said in one of your earlier posts, on a cold day you use 50kw.

The original poster was unhappy with the service at this site and i agree,
6A EHT is not what i call a reasonable supply ,

Regards
 
Jul 29, 2007
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The original poster was unhappy with the service at this site and i agree,
6A EHT is not what i call a reasonable supply ,

Regards

Why not?? have you got some enormous appliance in your motorhome? if Jim and I can manage on 6amp in an RV why isn't 6amp reasonable?

As for charging extra, thats going to be trouble free isn't it, "yes sir electric is £5 per 24 hours" 10 mins later your posting on here about a rip off site.

Olley
 
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sinbad1

Deleted User
Why not?? have you got some enormous appliance in your motorhome? if Jim and I can manage on 6amp in an RV why isn't 6amp reasonable?

As for charging extra, thats going to be trouble free isn't it, "yes sir electric is £5 per 24 hours" 10 mins later your posting on here about a rip off site.

Olley

Perhaps during the winter you two could set your owl monitor to 1440 watts and see if you get by:ROFLMAO:

As long as the site prices and electric costs etc are made clear i see no problem, if i think its ott then i will go elswhere, if not i'll stay.

If you dont get what you pay for then i would post a rip off site :Doh:

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scotjimland

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I said I wasn't going to respond but I must point out , it's illegal to charge separately for electric unless you install meters .. that's why that option is not available on any sites.

Suppose a pub decided to charge only an entrance fee and all drinks were free .. do you think they would make a profit .. or a supermarket let you fill a trolley for a fixed cost ..
That's exactly the same as allowing a van to use as much leccy as it wants no matter how much it costs the owner.. and that's why eventually the majority of sites will either fit meters or increase pitch fees to cover what the average maximum use is..

That's unfair to the frugal user or the panel van owner.. as you point out an RV can use much more .. and that's nothing to do with being a full timer .. most RVers are not fulltimers and not all fulltimers have RVs

The original poster was upset because a site took measures to keep it's costs down.. it was either that or raise pitch fees , I imagine by at least £5 .. how would the panel van owner feel.. he would now subsidising the big vans and the wasters..

Fitting meters is fair and equitable to all, it cuts waste, encourages frugality and dare I say it's the green way.. :RollEyes:

As I have proved and Olley said , 6A is plenty, I only need it to charge batteries.. I now use LPG instead of expensive metered electricity..

Yes its simple you have the basic pitch with no hookup = say £12
if you require EHU then you would pay the additional electric charge £12 + E

If you full time your energy needs are greater, bigger battery banks washing m/c etc that goes with fulltiming, I know i've done that for many years.
As you have said in one of your earlier posts, on a cold day you use 50kw.

The original poster was unhappy with the service at this site and i agree,
6A EHT is not what i call a reasonable supply ,

Regards
 
S

sinbad1

Deleted User
I said I wasn't going to respond but I must point out , it's illegal to charge separately for electric unless you install meters .. that's why that option is not available on any sites.


The original poster was upset because a site took measures to keep it's costs down.. it was either that or raise pitch fees , I imagine by at least £5 .. how would the panel van owner feel.. he would now subsidising the big vans and the wasters..

Fitting meters is fair and equitable to all, it cuts waste, encourages frugality and dare I say it's the green way.. :RollEyes:

As I have proved and Olley said , 6A is plenty, I only need it to charge batteries.. I now use LPG instead of expensive metered electricity..

I am aware its illegal to to charge separately ;however, it was an example of charge adjustment i could have said £12 for no hookup and £15 with hookup pitch its fairly obvious the cost of electric and legal.

As far as the campsite in question for what reason he decided to reduce this service he has lost one regular customer if not more.

I spent 4years without any EHU totally self sufficient fulltiming and there is no reason you could not do the same, its just managing your resouces.

When you pay to be on a site then the service you get is important .

Regards
 

scotjimland

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I am aware its illegal to to charge separately ;however, it was an example of charge adjustment i could have said £12 for no hookup and £15 with hookup pitch its fairly obvious the cost of electric and legal.

You cannot price a pitch with or without electric .. that's the reason C Club stopped having low, med and high season elect charges or the option not to have an EHU .. it has to be a fully inclusive price.. or fit meters.
When last did you book/visit a site and were given the option of EHU or No EHU ? It's NOT LEGAL ..
This is a major gripe with those who don't want ehu .. they are paying for those that do.

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Wildman

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A lot of people seem to skirting around the problem. Full timers use more electricity because they need it 24/7/365, they have to use washing machines, irons, more TV, more showers even, and heating in the winter.
Over the years many canny motorhomers have reduced the reliance on gas in favour of electricity because it was an all in price.
Whilst sites cannot charge for electricity they can and do charge extra for provision of an EHU, the problem with that is that when electricity prices rise if EHU prices rise then it is frowned on by the user who expects to get endless free electricity for a set price.
I cannot see the problem with a meter provided they are set at the correct rate. The EHU charge would eventually pay for the cost of installation and metered use would pay for the actual consumption of electricity.
If that does not suit you then get solar panels and wear more jumpers. Being self sufficient in a motorhome does not mean living at someone Else's expense.
Rant over I'm out of this one. Don't use sites and never have.
 

scotjimland

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The Law regarding reselling electricity

From Ofgem site:

What is maximum resale price?
The maximum resale price is the most that anyone
can charge for resupplying gas or electricity which
has already been bought from an authorised
supplier. It is set by Ofgem.
Anyone who charges more than the maximum resale
price may face civil proceedings for the recovery of
the amount overcharged,
and may be required to
pay interest on the amount overcharged.

Who does it apply to?
Maximum resale price applies when any person buys
gas or electricity from an authorised supplier and
resells it to someone else for domestic use. It applies,
for example, when a landlord resells gas or electricity
to tenants in rented accommodation, but also
applies when it is resold to:
n leaseholders who buy their gas and electricity
from the freeholder
n residents (whether private owners or tenants) on
caravan parks who buy their fuel from the park
owner, and
n houseboat owners who buy their fuel from the
operator of their moorings.

It does not apply when an inclusive charge is
made for accommodation - for example, where a
tenant pays a charge of (say) £100 per week, which
includes "all amenities" and identifies no specified
charge for the gas or electricity.


What is the reseller required to do?
Much will depend upon whether or not the
purchaser has a meter which records the number of
units of gas or electricity used under each of the
price headings paid by the landlord e.g. daytime
units and "Economy 7" type units.
If the purchaser has a meter which records
the number of units used at each rate, the
reseller will be expected to charge according to the
consumption recorded on the meter and the
appropriate unit prices on his own bill.

Other costs
The reseller is not entitled to recover the costs of
running his or her own electricity or gas system
through the charges which are made for gas and
electricity.
These are separate from the resale costs -
they are costs which the reseller incurs in
maintaining his property and administering his own
contracts with the purchasers. It is open to the
reseller to decide a basis for how these costs can be
recovered separately, for example as service charges
or as part of the accommodation charge itself. They
are not subject to maximum resale price, although
they may be subject to other limits, for example rent
controls
 
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Jul 29, 2007
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Perhaps during the winter you two could set your owl monitor to 1440 watts and see if you get by:ROFLMAO:

Hi we stayed at the Aire in Piau Engaly, which is a ski resort in the pyrenees in February 08, you only get 4amp, thats 1000watts. still plenty.

We only need electric for telly, lights and the fan on the gas heating, maybe 500watts total. You don't need to use your electric kettle, toaster, george forman, coffee machine etc. You seem to be wedded to you electric appliances.

In actual fact I have a very basic version of Jims Victron which enables both of us to use all the above appliances without tripping the EHU. ::bigsmile:

Olley

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