EHU cable insurance implications

Discussion in 'Motorhome Insurance General Discussion' started by GJH, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    I kept forgetting to post this until prompted by the other insurance thread and liability risk if you are at fault.

    A couple of weeks ago, whilst we were at Blackpool South CC site Jill got into a discussion with one of the wardens about a couple of EHU cables which were in use whilst still partially coiled and the consequent fire risk. The warden told her it was something that happened regularly and that wardens have often faced abuse if they point out the dangers.

    Now the important bit. Apparently the CC have taken advice on the issue and have been told that if a fire does occur because of overheating of a coiled EHU cable then the insurance cover held by the person using the cable might well be void and they may be liable for any damage themselves.
     
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  2. estcres

    estcres Read Only Funster

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    The person would only be considered "at fault" if they were aware of the dangers, if they were unaware that such a thing could happen then they can plead ignorance, however, if it was pointed out to them prior to a fire and they did nothing about it then they would be held liable along with everything that that concerns.

    As an electrician I am fully aware of the consequences of using coiled up leads and always uncoil mine prior to use, that is effective for all my, at work, home or leasure.

    I remember several years ago seeing what effect a wallpaper steam stripper could do to a coiled up extension lead, it all melted and turned into a big lump of plastic and wire.

    Another area of liability concern would be if an EHU lead was placed on the ground in such a fashion as to cause a trip hazard. Who would be liable then?
     
  3. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    Granted - but don't leads these days normally come with a warning printed on the packaging?

    The person who had left the cable in that way surely?
     
  4. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Indeed they do Graham, but lots of second hand vans are sold with secondhand EHU cables not in original packaging ..

    Case in point.. I bought a second hand caravan last year and it came with all I can describe as a lethal EHU lead.. under sized and with damage to the sheath .. I promptly binned it and bought a new one .. (cheaper than making it up myself) and it did have a warning on the packaging.
     
  5. sedge

    sedge Funster

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    Bane of my life .... Pete goes potty if I hoover without uncoiling all the wire, it's a PITA when I have eg dropped flour on the kitchen floor and only need a 30 second blast to eradicate it.

    I'd been hoovering like that (partially coiled) for 40 years girl and woman without incident. It's OK with the cylinder as that has a button you press and the lead gets 'swallowed' but on the upright it's manual wind and unless you get it 'just so' the peg thingies aren't long enough to keep it in place.

    So I generally either don't hoover at all or only do it when he isn't there .... :Laughing:
     
  6. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    Good point, Jim. As a general rule, though, I thought people had a responsibility to ensure tool safety before use or suffer the consequences.
     
  7. JJ

    JJ Funster

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    My "Hoover" has an automatic wire recoil system and I don't uncoil it fully before vacuuming...

    Now, thanks to Funsters, I realise how dangerous this practice has been and therefore I will stop vacuuming...

    JJ :Cool:
     
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  8. ShiftZZ

    ShiftZZ Funster Life Member

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    I'm not so convinced, is this an attempt to 'Nanny state' us all?

    Do baths have to have a sticker to say that you may drown if you put your head under water for two long? If you eat too much salt is there a direct warning on the carton, what if you ate the whole lot?

    Otherwise the insurance companies could claim that you breached the 175th law of some obscure law of physics or something.

    Also I don't think that ignorance of the law is an excuse either.

    Thinking about it, if these warnings came into force everything bought would have a lost of what you can and cant do, the list would be huge.

    "Thou shall not use thy false teeth to open Brazil nuts"

    Waving your satellite dish in bright sunlight may blind next doors cat
     
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  9. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    when did you start ?? :Rofl1:

    but just for your JJ in case you get a sudden urge to clean up, the H&S Advice on vacuuming .. and it's not a joke .. I copy/pasted ..

    Method Statement – Suction Cleaning (Vacuum Cleaning)

    Equipment:
    Personal protective equipment
    Warning signs
    Suction (Vacuum) cleaner and attachments
    Stiff hand brush
    Dust pan and brush
    Plastic sack

    Method:
    1. Put on personal protective equipment.
    2. Assemble equipment, check electrical equipment for safety, particularly plugs and cables.
    3. Place warning signs.
    4. Ventilate the area, if appropriate.
    5. Adjust height of brush/beater bar to suit surface being cleaned.
    6. Pick up any large or sharp items by hand before suction cleaning and place them into a plastic sack.
    7. [HI]Full unwind suction cleaner cable before inserting the machine plug into a power socket.[/HI]
    8. Cover the area systematically, giving more attention to heavily trafficked areas, edges and corners.
    9. Use dust pan and brush to clean under furniture and areas inaccessible by machine.
    10. Remove plug from power socket and recoil machine cable.
    11. Clean equipment and check for safety.
    12. Return equipment, materials and warning signs to store and close the ventilation, if appropriate.

    Safety:
    o Wear personal protective equipment.
    o Check electrical equipment, particularly plugs and cables.
    o Do not plug the machine in until it has been assembled and it ready for use.
    o Do not allow cable to become taut at ankle.

    Care of equipment:
    o Empty the suction cleaner/replace bag if required.
    o Clean brushes.
    o Clean dust pan.
     
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  10. olley

    olley Funster

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    Simply using a lead coiled up will have no effect over a short period of time, and using a low power device like vacuum cleaner I doubt would have any effect if used all day.

    I have noticed some leads state one amperage for uncoiled and another for coiled.

    Ian
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
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  11. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    if you had an RV shifty it would drive you mad

    If you owned an RV shifty it would drive you round the bend with the number of warning labels.. mainly because of California law.. everything has a death warning on it... gone mad.

    As for the cable on the ground... very much a Tort law argument .. Occupiers liability Act? Do the camp site (running the site as a business and holding themselves by such as an expert) be responsible? should a signed be displayed at point of entry ... Shoe Lane Parking case... Should the warden be required to advise people. if so does he become the 'officious bystander ' and thereby can be held responsible. ? very much a jury question I would think..

    I am not offering an opinion other than saying I would earn very well out of it if it came my way.:Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1:

    Bob
     
  12. ShiftZZ

    ShiftZZ Funster Life Member

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    Indeed Slob, thats why I would not buy one and try and avoid Americans as much as possible, they themselves should carry some sort of health warning...


    Its an American thing you know... I think its called stupidity
     
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  13. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Hi Ian ..

    some while back I was using a small angle grinder on the RV , (not sure of the watts, probably about 350) .. and me being a lazy beggar I only uncoiled a few meters of an extension cable ..Within 15mins or so I saw smoke coming from the real.. when I uncoiled the heat had melted the sheath and it was welded together ..

    vacuum cleaners are generally at least 1,000 watt . our Vax is 1300 watt .. so IMO there is no safe current.. the heat is generated not only by the current but by magnetic induction with the real acting like a coil ..
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  14. olley

    olley Funster

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    Hi Jim as I said some coils have a coiled rating, 5amps comes to mind, that's 1250watts as you know.

    As both positive and negative are next to each other, their is as far as I am aware and have been assured by others including "Boff" on facts no magnetic effect, their is also no iron core, so its only the heating effect. This makes sense as transformers only have a single main winding and an iron core.

    Here's a reel for sale on ebay click on the picture and it says 5amps coiled.
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5M-EXTENS...Fittings_MJ&hash=item230ea3024e#ht_3140wt_942

    Ian
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
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  15. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    putting theory to one side Ian,

    I can only say what happened when I used mine with a small load... from that day onward I always unwound.. as they say, an oz of practical experience is worth a ton of theory .. :BigGrin:
     
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  16. oldun

    oldun Read Only Funster

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    What do you mean by a "coiled" lead?

    Are you referring to a lead rolled around a drum or to a lead laid on the ground in a loose coil.

    I believe that the risks of overheating are much greater when on a drum than when loosely coiled on the ground.

    Any information as to overheating when laid in a coil on the ground?
     
  17. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    Both. Tight coil is more dangerous than a loose coil but why risk it at all?
     
  18. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    Short periods of live 'activity' will not heat the lead up a lot, its extended periods like hours that will.

    So JJ keep on hoovering:Rofl1::Rofl1:

    Peter
     
  19. mitzimad

    mitzimad Funster

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    Not sure of the electrical theory bit but work on sites where a lot of leads get used its always the small enclosed reels that burn out my own lead is probably getting on for 15years old has been used with devices up to 3kw regularly and i cant recall ever totally un reeling it and never had a problem but often see the small enclosed reels melted painter using steamers all day i would think
     
  20. darklord

    darklord Read Only Funster

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    There is another hazardous item most of us travel with, treat with extreme caution......................[​IMG]
     
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