DVLA says "failure to insure" (1 Viewer)

[Fifiwi]

We are fuming! Our Moho has been insured since we took possession of it back in March. We have been using the Hymer quite happily since then, and have taken it to France a couple of times- 16 days each visit.
Imagine our surprise/ shock/ anger, when we returned from France in late September, to find a letter from MID= Motor Insurance Database, informing us that the Moho was showing as uninsured. We phoned our insurer next day (AIB) and they confirmed the policy was in place, but that sometimes the notification of cover failed to reach MID..so they would re-send it. Phew...

Next, a few weeks ago, we receive another DVLA letter, this time to notify us of a £100 fine for "failure to insure " WHAT???? I tried to phone AIB, but their phone lines were down that day...anyway, we sent a copy of the insurance certificate to DVLA- hoping that would be the end of it.
Came home this evening from a couple of days in Norfolk- another DVLA envelope....
according to their latest letter, they accept the paperwork proves the vehicle is insured...yipeee....BUT, they are still going to fine us (or him, at least, as the R.O) So, they accept they were wrong, but we still owe them £100...
He has been on the phone to DVLA, and asked them to phone him tomorrow, with an explanation, and apology for harrassing him like this...and he has written, saying the same.

I just wondered, has anyone else on here ever had a similar experience?
DVLA will not get a penny from us, and we will happily go to court, if that's what they want.

And breathe......

 

[pappajohn]

Do you have legal cover on your policy...if so let the insurer sort it, after all its their fault.

 

[pyro]

It won't end up in court. In any case, AIB should pick this up

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[chaser]

We are fuming! Our Moho has been insured since we took possession of it back in March. We have been using the Hymer quite happily since then, and have taken it to France a couple of times- 16 days each visit.
Imagine our surprise/ shock/ anger, when we returned from France in late September, to find a letter from MID= Motor Insurance Database, informing us that the Moho was showing as uninsured. We phoned our insurer next day (AIB) and they confirmed the policy was in place, but that sometimes the notification of cover failed to reach MID..so they would re-send it. Phew...

Next, a few weeks ago, we receive another DVLA letter, this time to notify us of a £100 fine for "failure to insure " WHAT???? I tried to phone AIB, but their phone lines were down that day...anyway, we sent a copy of the insurance certificate to DVLA- hoping that would be the end of it.
Came home this evening from a couple of days in Norfolk- another DVLA envelope....
according to their latest letter, they accept the paperwork proves the vehicle is insured...yipeee....BUT, they are still going to fine us (or him, at least, as the R.O) So, they accept they were wrong, but we still owe them £100...
He has been on the phone to DVLA, and asked them to phone him tomorrow, with an explanation, and apology for harrassing him like this...and he has written, saying the same.

I just wondered, has anyone else on here ever had a similar experience?
DVLA will not get a penny from us, and we will happily go to court, if that's what they want.

And breathe......

With these things , it's always the motorist that has to have the mither and cost, why when they are totally in the right.

 

[mikebeaches]

Shocking - hope it all gets sorted soon without too much more pain.

Good luck!

 

[gus-lopez]

We are fuming! Our Moho has been insured since we took possession of it back in March. We have been using the Hymer quite happily since then, and have taken it to France a couple of times- 16 days each visit.
Imagine our surprise/ shock/ anger, when we returned from France in late September, to find a letter from MID= Motor Insurance Database, informing us that the Moho was showing as uninsured. We phoned our insurer next day (AIB) and they confirmed the policy was in place, but that sometimes the notification of cover failed to reach MID..so they would re-send it. Phew...

Next, a few weeks ago, we receive another DVLA letter, this time to notify us of a £100 fine for "failure to insure " WHAT???? I tried to phone AIB, but their phone lines were down that day...anyway, we sent a copy of the insurance certificate to DVLA- hoping that would be the end of it.
Came home this evening from a couple of days in Norfolk- another DVLA envelope....
according to their latest letter, they accept the paperwork proves the vehicle is insured...yipeee....BUT, they are still going to fine us (or him, at least, as the R.O) So, they accept they were wrong, but we still owe them £100...
He has been on the phone to DVLA, and asked them to phone him tomorrow, with an explanation, and apology for harrassing him like this...and he has written, saying the same.

I just wondered, has anyone else on here ever had a similar experience?
DVLA will not get a penny from us, and we will happily go to court, if that's what they want.

And breathe......

You also need to inform them that you will be invoicing them £x per hour or part hour for every email/phone cal etc that you have had to make . Also that you require compensation for the stress & inconvenience etc; + vat if you are a business.

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[Fifiwi]

Do you have legal cover on your policy...if so let the insurer sort it, after all its their fault.

Well, I always include legal cover in our car policies, so I'll check we have it for the Moho. Good point, Thanks, @pappajohn

 

[Fifiwi]

You also need to inform them that you will be invoicing them £x per hour or part hour for every email/phone cal etc that you have had to make . Also that you require compensation for the stress & inconvenience etc; + vat if you are a business.

Yes, Mr was suggesting this earlier, when he wasn't calling DVLA some choice names. Even a telephone apology, as he has requested, won't cover the sheer stress of this whole nonsense. The bit that really annoyed him was that, having accepted our paperwork i.e. copy of the policy, they still want us to pay £100 fine...(oh, but if we cough up before 11th November, it'll be "reduced" to £50...Bargain!

 

[Hollyberry]

I had this happen when I drove into UK from France, where I lived. My motorhome was UK registered, taxed in UK and insured by French insurer with insurance valid in the UK. I'd owned it for about 6 months and my local garage owner had had all my paperwork as he was handling the change of registration to France. Unfortunately he went bust just before I left France ( for a few weeks holiday visiting family/friends in UK) Luckily I'd picked up all the paperwork day I left.
M.home was registered at friend's address. I received same letter as you and called the number on the letter. Very helpful lady told me that as the vehicle had UK plates still I had to have UK insurance, even though my French insurance covered me for accidents.To save being pulled over by police I took out UK insurance, asked French co to suspend my insurance ( they were brilliant) Just as well I did change as daughter became unwell and I ended up staying in UK for 9 months.
I can't see how they can fine you for having an insured vehicle. I'd write and give them 7 days to change their minds before you engage a lawyer and claim all costs against them.
Looks like I got off lightly! This was just over 4 years ago.

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[reckless]

I remember cases like this when MID was first introduced, seems it's the motorist's responsibility to make sure details on MID are correct. Very unreasonable of course. It was recommended you always check MID online shortly after your insurance is renewed but who remembers that?

I hope you get a good outcome.

 

[Shrimp]

The last insurance I took out for the car some of the small print was that it was up to me to ensure that the car insurance was on the database!
Just checked the website, it's-askMID.com-and the van & the car are on there.

 

[Treeeev]

Checked mine a few years ago and found that my VW campervan was recorded on the AskMid database as a motorcycle. After contacting them, and my insurance broker, and querying my 4 berth motorcycle (which also fitted with a sink and fridge) . I was advised that sometimes this happens when the abbreviation used for motor home is "MC" (ie motor caravan) rather than "MH" is entered for the data to be sent to AskMid. Neither the insurance company nor AskMid seemed too bothered, just telling me not to worry as I was insured ok. Fortunately it was corrected shortly afterwards

Cheers

Trevor

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[pappajohn]

I was advised that sometimes this happens when the abbreviation used for motor home is "MC" (ie motor caravan) rather than "MH" is entered for the data to be sent to AskMid.

I believe as long as the reg number is on the MID database it doesnt matter what its listed as....could be a moon buggy for all they care

 

[Fifiwi]

Thanks for the replies. @Hollyberry, glad you got your insurance sorted. Initially, I did wonder if the fact that our Moho was imported from Germany (by Bundesvan) had complicated matters.

Update- quelle surprise....when Mr phoned DVLA, there was no note to say that he'd phoned yesterday, therefore NO callback had been arranged, and grrrr.....they are not prepared to speak to Mr about the matter. Some mysterious comment about having received "additional evidence" was in their latest letter. They won't tell Mr. what that is.... You couldn't make it up!

A quick call to AIB, and they have advised us not to pay a penny. They are going to re-send (via the Underwriters) confirmation to DVLA of our policy.

So, we are sitting tight. Mr has had a sip of red, to help calm his nerves. Mine will have to wait till after work tonight.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Puddleduck]

I remember cases like this when MID was first introduced, seems it's the motorist's responsibility to make sure details on MID are correct. Very unreasonable of course. It was recommended you always check MID online shortly after your insurance is renewed but who remembers that?

I hope you get a good outcome.

Or, if like my parents you have no internet and wouldn't know how to check anyway.

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[Hollyberry]

Thanks for the replies. @Hollyberry, glad you got your insurance sorted. Initially, I did wonder if the fact that our Moho was imported from Germany (by Bundesvan) had complicated matters.

Update- quelle surprise....when Mr phoned DVLA, there was no note to say that he'd phoned yesterday, therefore NO callback had been arranged, and grrrr.....they are not prepared to speak to Mr about the matter. Some mysterious comment about having received "additional evidence" was in their latest letter. They won't tell Mr. what that is.... You couldn't make it up!

A quick call to AIB, and they have advised us not to pay a penny. They are going to re-send (via the Underwriters) confirmation to DVLA of our policy.

So, we are sitting tight. Mr has had a sip of red, to help calm his nerves. Mine will have to wait till after work tonight.

Thanks for reading.

Last year I received a fine in the post for driving in a bus lane in Cardiff---well a car with my number plate was photographed in the bus lane. Wasn't my car or me driving it. After a couple of letters where I had to send evidence that it wasn't my car ( and they did eff all) I received a letter saying the " operator had made an error" No s/he hadn't. It was a car with cloned plates but easier to brush it under the carpet.

Their "new evidence" will probably be that it was there on their records all along and someone missed it.

 

[Fifiwi]

The Latest Update...
about 9 days after our reply to DVLA..we were thinking we hadn't heard from them for a few days.

Today's missive ... is headed in bold "Failure to insure **** ***" (the Moho's reg, not an expletive- leave the expletives to us.

They thank us for our reply to the FPN. Next paragraph reminds us of the legal requirement to insure vehicles...

"You have advised us that you were insured on the alleged date of offence. We have contacted your insurer, who has confirmed that there is nothing to support this" . (we do have a certificate of insurance, valid from March, a copy of which we have previously sent to DVLA.)
Consequently, you remain liable for the £100 fixed penalty. "
Next paragraph gives us instructions on how to pay.

Sheesh....so they're now saying that our insurers back them up, despite at least two phone calls to the insurers, in which they reassured us that we were insured....

Am I missing something here?

We're sitting tight, maybe call the insurer again on Monday....we have other things to do, apart from chasing up things to try to clear our name.

And breathe......

 

[chaser]

@AIBinsurance is a member on here, why hasnt he commented on this. Doesn't make any sense
Edit
As soon as I posted this lo and behold his advert came across the top.

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[pyro]

D

The Latest Update...
about 9 days after our reply to DVLA..we were thinking we hadn't heard from them for a few days.

Today's missive ... is headed in bold "Failure to insure **** ***" (the Moho's reg, not an expletive- leave the expletives to us.

They thank us for our reply to the FPN. Next paragraph reminds us of the legal requirement to insure vehicles...

"You have advised us that you were insured on the alleged date of offence. We have contacted your insurer, who has confirmed that there is nothing to support this" . (we do have a certificate of insurance, valid from March, a copy of which we have previously sent to DVLA.)
Consequently, you remain liable for the £100 fixed penalty. "
Next paragraph gives us instructions on how to pay.

Sheesh....so they're now saying that our insurers back them up, despite at least two phone calls to the insurers, in which they reassured us that we were insured....

Am I missing something here?

We're sitting tight, maybe call the insurer again on Monday....we have other things to do, apart from chasing up things to try to clear our name.

And breathe......

Don't let it worry you too much and get on with your lives

If this ends up in the magistrates court, you will get your costs back.

If you are seriously upset by this, then check your various policies for legal cover and, if you do hold it- household or car or even via a motoring association such as the AA or RAC - then let them handle it.

 

[Lot lover]

My thruppence on this and similar subjects

Don't phone, there is no evidence of what was said, write (a proper letter sent recorded delivery) and there is evidence.

 

[gus-lopez]

You really need to reply using the "mentally unbalanced " letter writer & complete with all the expletives. Ask which of them is lying ? Ask them to supply the proof that it isn't them by forwarding said correspondence from the insurance company as you have a valid certificate ( any payment receipt ?) of insurance that has already been supplied to them.
Also submit with it an invoice detailing a charge per hour or part hour for every hour you have spent on it, + phone calls , emails etc. If you are Vat registered add vat.note that failure by them to pay withing 30 days & you will go to the small claims court. If they don't then make a claim. If they don't turn up/defend it then it is automatically found in your favour . Failure by them to pay then send in the Bailiff/Sheriff. All these costs get added.

My thruppence on this and similar subjects

Don't phone, there is no evidence of what was said, write (a proper letter sent recorded delivery) and there is evidence.

Unfortunately they got wise to that years ago . In many cases they will refuse to sign. If someone does then they have many lies they have in the past used for excuses , favourite being " there was nothing in the envelope when it was opened".
People on a forum I use that regularly deal with this scum resort to many methods to ensure that they always have them bang to rights.
One bloke who deals with them found that the only way was a certifiable chain of evidence all videoed from document production,to handover to courier , who has to have camera recording all the time to delivery , reciept& signature. All on film. After the first one he has never had another problem. Costs money & it shouldn't have to be done but they have gone from being utterly useless lazy barstewards when it was first moved there to give them jobs, full circle to over bearing,pompous, power crazy useless lazy barstewards. Burning down is too good for them. When I used to deal with them regarding rules&regs it would take weeks of emails before you'd find someone that actually had a brain. After the first couple of occasions I'd ask the questions & at the same time if it was dealing with EU rulesI'd ask the EU . Always get an answer in 10 days from them.
Other thing is the people who you can actually speak with can't do much at all usually. just there to placate you whilst the ones who make the decisions you can never get at.
TFl London emission zone is another who does it.

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[pyro]

Just a point, but AIB kept getting the reg number wrong on the insurance certificates they sent us. I wonder if they did the same to you???

Personally, you have done your best, if they take you to court, then you'll win and you'll get your costs back, not worth sweating over

 

[Fifiwi]

Just a point, but AIB kept getting the reg number wrong on the insurance certificates they sent us. I wonder if they did the same to you???

Personally, you have done your best, if they take you to court, then you'll win and you'll get your costs back, not worth sweating over

First thing I did, was to check the VRM, when we had the first notification, but it's definitely correct. From memory, because it was an import, there was initially a "temp" policy, with a "temp" VRM, but as soon as we had the V5, it was redone with the correct number.

It's a mystery to us, truly. As we are certainly not going to pay, it does look like we'll get our day in court..ooer.....

 

[pyro]

First thing I did, was to check the VRM, when we had the first notification, but it's definitely correct. From memory, because it was an import, there was initially a "temp" policy, with a "temp" VRM, but as soon as we had the V5, it was redone with the correct number.

It's a mystery to us, truly. As we are certainly not going to pay, it does look like we'll get our day in court..ooer.....

Then don't worry. A magistrate is just an "upright" member of the public, and it is an absolute offence not to be insured and you have an absolute defence

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[Chris51]

All this "red tape" was suposed to get rid of uninsured vehicles -gypsies etc.It hasnt worked as if you picked up a "scrappie" and did not tax/insure/mot it you could get away with it unless you were very unfortunate to be checked by a traffic cop(remember those ?) So the genuine people are hastled.

 

[tonyidle]

All this "red tape" was suposed to get rid of uninsured vehicles -gypsies etc.It hasnt worked as if you picked up a "scrappie" and did not tax/insure/mot it you could get away with it unless you were very unfortunate to be checked by a traffic cop(remember those ?)

Or pass one of the very many ANPR cameras of course?

 

[Chris51]

Or pass one of the very many ANPR cameras of course?

Vehicle wouldnt be registered with DVLA so they wouldnt be able to track him would they? He would probably be using faulse no plates as well?

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[Fifiwi]

After a weekend of ignoring this latest letter, Mr has just phoned the insurance company.."we have contacted your insurance company"....hmmm...AIB have no record of a phone call from DVLA about our vehicle. If they had, it would be recorded against our details. They do have a record of our calls to them, confirming our policy.
So, DVLA also do "ghost" phone calls....how clever!

 

[pyro]

Don't waste your time, you have informed them, they have ignored you. Just get your insurers ready to provide a witness statement for use in court, stand back and defend yourselves and collect your costs, loss of earnings, travel and subsistence from a morning spent in the local magistrate's court. Or send the demand to your insurers and tell them to sort it out

 

[Fifiwi]

Point taken, pyro. I just had to check that bit about DVLA having allegedly been in touch with AIB. Now, it seems we have confirmation that our mystery letter writer is a liar.
Mr is today sending a reply, again asking for a callback..(ever the optimist) and a full apology for the intimidation.

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