Ducato owners beware

Discussion in 'Tech/Mech General' started by PP Bear, Nov 4, 2015.

  1. PP Bear

    PP Bear Funster Life Member

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    image.jpg It certainly pays to be a Funster and all the invaluable advice they can offer. Often based on personal experience and expertise :)

    If you followed this thread,
    http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/general-maintenance-diy.118579/
    then you'll have know that I had recently inspected the offside front and rear discs and pads and declared them sound and serviceable, however I never actually removed them and stripped the brakes down.

    In my OP I was advised by @Lofty1 and backed up by @davenewel (http://www.davenewell.co.uk/) that I should strip out the pads and check they're fully serviceable. I took the advice and put the motorhome in the garage again and inspected all the pads. Good job I did as the last set to be inspected duly fell apart as predicted (see photos)

    If I hadn't had taken the advice and had a full strip down inspection, then goodness only knows how many more miles I'd have driven before suffering a catastrophic breakdown, or even worse!!!!

    New pads front and rear are now on order and I'll collect them tomorrow. Good job I've access to one of our military vehicles, or I'd be left trying to have them delivered to the base.

    Also found a self tapping screw in the rear tyre, but luckily it hadn't done any damage, along with a small maggot that somehow likes to live in the tread of my tyre!!

    My vehicle is a 2006 2.8 JTD Ducato, with just over 25000 miles on the clock. The vehicle is in an immaculate condition, especially considering it's nearly 10 years old. The pads looked really good until stripped out. So the question now is.....how many more are there out there that should be changed. Might be worth getting them checked for peace of mind. If it's a garage or a Halfords Auto Centre, get them to fully remove the pads. My last trip to a Halfords, resulted in them merely measuring the thickness of the pads, which in this case, just wouldn't have found the problem. They need to be removed.

    They're actually the easiest set of pads I've ever removed. Well within the abilities of the competent mechanic and their home DIY skills

    Thanks fellow Funsters, all dam good advice and well followed by the Bear. Just need to fit them now and then run them in.
    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
     
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  2. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    The maggot will be the last indication of that rabbit you ran over last month. :D
     
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  3. PP Bear

    PP Bear Funster Life Member

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    Tasted delicious :rofl::clap2::cheers:
     
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  4. Masman

    Masman Funster

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    Had new discs and pads change last year.last two MOTs had advisory that discs where pitted.there was plenty left on pads but looked a bit rough.van only done 40k.
     
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  5. Derbyshire wanderer

    Derbyshire wanderer Funster Life Member

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    My last van was a 2005 and in 2009 when I bought it it had done 18000mls but the brakes squeeled like a stuck pig. I removed the pads as you have done and one of them was almost completely delaminated. If the friction material had actually come away, the steel backing plate could have easily jammed in the calipers space and caused either extra damage or a disaster.
    New pads fitted for about £25 and 45 minutes of my time.
    It is worth noting that the main dealers now rarely remove the wheels to check the brakes on a service (to keep the service times down which pleases the lease companies!) This sort of problem can only be found with the wheel removed. Stripping and cleaning the pads is the only way to be sure that delamination has not started to occur.
     
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  6. irnbru

    irnbru Funster Life Member

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    Thanks PP Bear. Vanessa is going for her service in the morning so I will advise the garage of your comments(y)
     
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  7. magicsurfbus

    magicsurfbus Funster

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    Every other annual service I ask them to strip and inspect the brakes, regardless of mileage or what the schedule says.
     
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  8. PP Bear

    PP Bear Funster Life Member

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    It's such a good idea as it's the only way to be sure. Ask them to remove all the sets, just to be sure. I didn't find my broken one, until I removed the last wheel :)

    Every days a school day, no matter how old I get :blusher:


    It's something that I'll keep my eye and mind on now, it's all good advice and at £53 (parts only) to replace all sets, I don't think it's that expensive either :)
     
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  9. tonyidle

    tonyidle Funster

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    I wish I'd seen that a couple of months ago. I had my MoT early September prior to which I checked all bushes, boots, bearings, and pads. Like you I did not remove them - just a visual check with the wheels off. They had around 6mm left. The MoT man mentioned that they were getting close to being worn out but didn't give me any advisories. On my way to the Lincoln show the NS front spat out the friction lining from one pad. The only reason I knew this had happened was that the brakes briefly developed long pedal travel & subsequent braking caused a grinding noise from the affected brake. The brakes continued to work apparently normally (no pull - which surprised me) for the last 10 miles or so to the show and whilst there I booked in with a local brake specialist for the Monday. I found making the call quite traumatic as it was the first time I'd ever arranged (or made) a visit to a vehicle repair establishment. Anyway I had the repair done and watched them like a hawk throughout. They did a decent job & charged me £169 for two discs & a full set of pads which seemed very reasonable. In the past I've seen pads down to a couple of mm just starting to flake (not mine!) so I was somewhat surprised by the failure. It's possibly down to lack of use of the van & possibly moisture penetration / adhesive failure. Either way the advice to remove for examination once a year is most definitely sound (if a little tardy :D:D).
     
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  10. JockandRita

    JockandRita Funster Life Member

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    During the eleven years of ownership, our MH has had 2 x new sets of front discs, and 3 x new sets of pads. None of the old pads showed signs of cracking or delamination from their backplates. I am by no means a heavy breaker.
    Years ago, it was the pads that wore away quicker than the discs, but not so these days, with the use of Kevlar in the pad lining manufacture. :eek:

    At sixteeen years old, she is still on the original rear brake shoes. ;)

    Cheers,

    Jock.
     
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  11. PP Bear

    PP Bear Funster Life Member

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    Thanks Jock. I've decided that I'll change both front and rear. Euro Parts have them at 50% discount, so just over £50. It makes great sense as I'm parked up at the moment in the garage. It's been completely cleared out, so just me, EHU, 2 pits and 3 bays to use, so a perfect opportunity to the do the job inside in the relative warmth :)

    Also I found one of those new fangled inventions in the corner, a porcelain toilet :Eeek: Quite a novelty, they even flush. Perfect for "dumping" my black:notworthy2:
     
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  12. Lofty1

    Lofty1 Funster

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    Just to make things clear,When on service the only check is the thickness of the pads they are not removed as most commercial vehicles have them changed every year or so. As our vans tend to be low mileage time is the biggest killer of brakes, Most pads are easy to change but beware of Iveco calipers as the pistons in the calipers screw in and are difficult . Finally if unsure or not confident there are plenty of competent people on site who will help I'm sure. I am in the Newark area if anyone needs help.
     
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  13. PP Bear

    PP Bear Funster Life Member

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    Well I've changed both sets of pads, so it's back to peace of mind again for a few more years :)

    It never ceases to amaze me with the vehicle. More Autotrail shoddy work and more wiring. No wonder so many people have electrical problems, if my wiring harness is anything to go by :Eeek:

    While I was replacing the rear pads, I could clearly see some wires that were far too long for their application and were simply laying on the wooden "shelf" that hides the water tanks. I simply picked it up and it came out far enough to go under my rear wheel, should it have vibrated out. The other wasn't even insulated and had crimped connectors fully open to the elements and again, just sitting on the board :swear2:

    Shoddy, shoddy rubbish. I wish I could watch them produce these expensive vehicles, I'd soon stage inspect them. I wouldn't let a single board or panel be put in place to hide such rubbish, until I'd inspected it for craftsmanship. Looms and loose wire like the ones I found on mine, wouldn't get past until properly secured and tidied up!! Standards Autotrail, try applying them.

    Ended up removing the board, securing the wiring and added extra lagging to the fresh water tank. Also greased the rear axle while I was at it :cheers:
     

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  14. Tootles

    Tootles Funster

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    Well, I did tell you that your small maggot wasn't up to common assault.......(y)
     
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  15. Stealaway

    Stealaway Funster

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    Shocking !!! Who are these clowns that put motor homes together?
    They are certainly not motor engineers (or electricians) Bloody amateurs!
    If they think if we cant see it, it doesn't matter,' just bodge it up with tie wraps and tape, it's criminal considering the price we pay for this shoddy workmanship.

    One more observation.

    Never buy cheap brake pads. If they are cheap rubbish you will have rubbish brakes for the next 20,000 miles.
    I only ever buy Ferodo.
    I used to race with their pads exclusively but I was once sponsored to a free set by another large manufacturer - I nearly died at the first corner - never again.
    I even asked their top rider how he managed with such crap pads, looking around he whispered 'not in the front'. No one ever used the rear brake!
    You wanna guess what make he was using in the front?
     
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  16. PP Bear

    PP Bear Funster Life Member

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    I use these....
    [​IMG]
    Pagid has a strong history and earned its reputation with vehicle manufacturers like VW Group, DaimlerChrysler,Opel/Saab and Porsche.
    Through the years a philosophy of quality and performance has ensured Pagid has evolved into the choice of vehicle manufacturers globally.
    Pagid's reputation for high performance friction is substantiated by O.E. approvals with:
    • Audi S4, S6, RS 6, TT, Q7
    • Mercedes C-Class, SLR
    • Opel Vectra OPC
    • Lamborghini Murcielago
    • Aston Martin Vanquish
    • VW Phaeton, Touareg
    • Porsche 997 GT3 RS, Cayenne
    • Leading the field in both O.E. and aftermarket friction development, Pagid is working in partnership with the world's leading brake and vehicles manufacturers for high performance cars.
    I'll let you know if they're any good by the first corner :)
     
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  17. Cleve

    Cleve Funster

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    Just as a by the way. Don't forget brake fluid is hydroscopic and that needs to be changed periodically. If not on a long down hill, possibly riding the brakes you could boil up the fluid, have the brakes fade and possibly fail altogether. Them windy roads don't always have emergency escape lanes.

    I had a thruppenny bit half a crown experience in my old type 2 VW on a hill on the south coast years ago. Made worse by being drums all round of course.

    Clive
     
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  18. Stealaway

    Stealaway Funster

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    To perform a proper test ------
    You'll need to arrive at a 90 degree corner at about 145 mph and brake at the 200 yard marker -- definitely not one yard past it.
    If you do manage to get around the corner, then they are good enough.

    I'm sure there is nothing wrong with Pagid components, a well respected manufacturer with a strong reputation to maintain.
    As a posed to some 'no name' made in China.
     
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  19. WAG2CRU

    WAG2CRU Read Only Funster

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    Hagrid's brakes were stripped and cleaned during a service in September, he was coming up to 3 years old and 30K miles, we had just completed a trip through the Alps so I was surprised to be informed that the disks where "As New" and, the pads only about 20% worn.
     
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