Driving licence (1 Viewer)

mariner

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But that is my point, glancing to your right or left is not and I repeat is not looking over your shoulder.
This is looking over your shoulder!
340ac14319584c631ea7b0a9ad3e1c78.jpg
 
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sdc77

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@gooey .. I think you just don't get it..
I'm confident enough driving forward in the car or van that I don't feel the need to look over my shoulder. Of course I can glance left and right. But look back over my shoulder?? Why.. I know what's there. If you don't understand why I know what's there then we're gonna have to agree to disagree

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Jun 2, 2010
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I disagree, I was a driving instructor for five years in the mid/late sixties and wing mirrors, if fitted, were not part of the car test , it was the interior rear view mirror and observation to left and right by looking, you got it, over your shoulder .
As an older driver I still practice what I preached and disagree that "failure to accept the need to look over your shoulder is being perpetuated by older drivers".
It is older drivers that needed to do it as the mirrors of yesteryear were nothing compared to mirrors of today , infact few were convex and gave a very limited rear view.


I'm with you on that Larry, back in the day wing mounted wing mirrors were accessories, I fitted enough of them, and the final part of the fit was getting the customer to sit in his vehicle and adjusting the mirror to suit his view (the majority of those fitted were the conical (pseudo racing) mirror. But yes the interior mirror AND looking over your shoulders was the requirement. Today's drivers are obviously too reliant on the door mounted mirrors that it has been necessary for the DLA to heighten the action of looking over the shoulder as part of the test.
 
Jun 2, 2010
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@gooey .. I think you just don't get it..
I'm confident enough driving forward in the car or van that I don't feel the need to look over my shoulder. Of course I can glance left and right. But look back over my shoulder?? Why.. I know what's there. If you don't understand why I know what's there then we're gonna have to agree to disagree

Disagree or not, if your ever unfortunate enough to have to take your test again and you don't display to the examiner a physical movement to look over your shoulder, no not to the rear, to the blind spot, you will fail your test, end of.
 
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I'm with you on that Larry, back in the day wing mounted wing mirrors were accessories, I fitted enough of them, and the final part of the fit was getting the customer to sit in his vehicle and adjusting the mirror to suit his view (the majority of those fitted were the conical (pseudo racing) mirror. But yes the interior mirror AND looking over your shoulders was the requirement. Today's drivers are obviously too reliant on the door mounted mirrors that it has been necessary for the DLA to heighten the action of looking over the shoulder as part of the test.

Brings back memories , in 1966 I was teaching people to drive in an Austin A40 Farina, and following that, Hillman Imps , what a difference to cars of today :rolleyes:

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OP
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robrace
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I'M SORRY!i didn't mean to start World War 3!My sister in law is a competent driver.What conscerns us is that it appears unless we are wrong that anyone can contact the D.V.L.A and make what could be baseless claims about someones driving and they will act upon it.She has had contact with the police or anything that could have caused this action so we can only assume that it's been done out of malice.Yes of course there comes a time when we should realise that we are no longer safe to drive.My father who is 94 had a slight stroke 18 months ago and we as the family thought that would be the end of his driving.He was contacted by the stroke association who gave him details of a voluntary driving assessment.He went out with someone from the association for about an hour and they told him he was OK to carry on driving!!I am now 71 and have been driving since I was 18 and up until a couple of years ago also raced Historic Racing Cars for a hobby.I know that my reactions aren't as good as they were.It's perfectly understandable that they won't be as I get older.I wouldn't be bothered about taking a test or having my driving examined but hope that when I get that I am not up to scratch I will realise it and pack up!
 
Jun 2, 2010
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I'M SORRY!i didn't mean to start World War 3!My sister in law is a competent driver.What conscerns us is that it appears unless we are wrong that anyone can contact the D.V.L.A and make what could be baseless claims about someones driving and they will act upon it.She has had contact with the police or anything that could have caused this action so we can only assume that it's been done out of malice.Yes of course there comes a time when we should realise that we are no longer safe to drive.My father who is 94 had a slight stroke 18 months ago and we as the family thought that would be the end of his driving.He was contacted by the stroke association who gave him details of a voluntary driving assessment.He went out with someone from the association for about an hour and they told him he was OK to carry on driving!!I am now 71 and have been driving since I was 18 and up until a couple of years ago also raced Historic Racing Cars for a hobby.I know that my reactions aren't as good as they were.It's perfectly understandable that they won't be as I get older.I wouldn't be bothered about taking a test or having my driving examined but hope that when I get that I am not up to scratch I will realise it and pack up!


Sorry your thread was blown off course Rob and I'm glad that the assessment I mentioned worked positively for your father(y), I also hope the other posters on here will now stop Looking Back in Anger;)
 
Dec 28, 2011
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But that is my point, glancing to your right or left is not and I repeat is not looking over your shoulder.
This is looking over your shoulder!
View attachment 93914


It would appear that the young lady in the picture, and very nice too, has her chin positioned along the line of her shoulder and is glancing (looking ?) back with her eyes.
This is not the position that I would adopt when glancing (looking) to the side blind spots.
But then again, I am, as you put it, severely deformed.

I too have had an accident free driving career since I was 16, bikes, and then cars, HGVs etc. by using the same technique that you apply. Awareness.
This is achieved by observation of my surroundings using every means available.
That includes mirrors and looking around me for any danger that may be present.
If you are suggesting that you only ever look forward when you are driving then you are definitely to be congratulated on an accident free existence on the roads.

Please, for the last time, you, and now @sdc77 are the only ones who are saying look over my shoulder.
As it happens I look over my shoulder quite a lot when out on my bike because the mirrors aren't as good as those on cars.
They don't cover the blind spots very well.
I also look over my shoulder and actually turn around to see what is behind me when driving a traction engine.
Basically because they don't have mirrors at all.

I won't post any more on this subject as we will just pat the ball backwards and forwards over the net to each other.
As I said before, you do as you want as long as it is safe.

I hope I haven't offended anyone because life is to short to waste arguing.
Off to bed now as I need as much beauty sleep as I can get these days.

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GWAYGWAY

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If you have a blind spot in the drivers (offside) mirror then I suggest you get it changed. I can understand Motorcyclists and Cyclists doing it but not in a vehicle.
A glance to the right will tell you if anyone is alongside you, but IMO to physically turn your head to look back over your right shoulder, is not only unnecessary but also dangerous. If the vehicle you are about to overtake, makes any unexpected manoeuvre, while you are busy looking over your shoulder, you are in trouble.
In any case you will have checked your mirrors long before indicating and starting your overtaking manoeuvre.
Many, many years ago 1971. I had an accident when I was 22. a car in front was turning into a Garage forecourt in Lewes I went to go out and pass him so looked over the right shoulder, and he stopped just before going in. My front nearside wing hit his rear offside light shoving his car across the forecourt. As I wasn't looking where I was going, I got three point (my only ever) on my licence. To make thing worse it was directly outside the Sussex Chief Constable's house, so the police attended in 5 minutes.
 

GWAYGWAY

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Another thing about vision whilst driving. I ended up buying my late Brother's car. It was a Kia Rio, I found out I could not drive it properly as I could see nothing it was like driving a wide screen television,as the screen was such a long way forwards, the rear screen was small an sloping sharply the pillars were too wide and I just could not see sod all out of it. I sold it on very rapidly before I ran over a bus that I didn't see or back into a parked building. A load of new cars are made the same as this. There was no way of seeing where any of the salient point of the car were. The van is a doddle to drive as long as the rear view camera is on.
 

sdc77

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Once more .. glancing left and right is obviously fine but encouraging people to look backwards is wrong.
If anyone want me to grab some quotes from the IAM I will.
What should be encouraged is concentration, a good system of control of your vehicle and good observation using your forward vision effectively (both focused and peripheral vision) and your mirrors.
Overtaking is a high risk manoeuvre which should be planned using the system you have developed - including using your mirrors- but whilst driving forward your attention and vision has to be directed forward.
As has been pointed out. If you are involved in a collision whilst looking "back" then you most certainly could be construed as driving without due care and attention.
Im not interested in arguing this with anyone as I'm quite happy that it's correct but you take it or leave it. Let's hope this spirited discussion helps someone.
Good luck to the ops relative.

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Falcon 269

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Looking backwards over either shoulder is pretty useful when reversing. Or does everyone simply rely on their mirrors for that, too? ;)
 
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Hi.
It would appear many drivers are looking anywhere but where they are going."This driver was watching TV/Video,this driver was reading a map/paper,on the phone,ladies putting on make up,so glancing over your shoulder is well out of order

Glad i kept up the reading of the post,A40 farinas-Hillman Imps, had them, then the..."Rocket Rio". Bought a "Rocket Rio Sport" to tow behind the m/home,ended up not bothering,but on several Mega Warp speed trips to Portugal and back,found it very exciting. I would bet good money that Spanish road police would/are still looking out for it.As for seeing out of it,slowly caught up with a Merc Sports on the Autovia..A62,i was tooling along about 85.mph,it had about 400 exhaust pipes coming out the back,so i thought, Big lump in that,we did not "Play" but on long hills he came by and on straights i took over. Coming up behind a HGV,with his blue touch paper well alight,his brake lights kept coming on and off,said to wife,somethings wrong here and slowed down,as did the Merc behind,there was the patrol car under starters orders...We were all now running at the proper speed so we were off the hook,on passing the lorry,gave him a wave and he waved back with a big grin on his face.
Whats this got to do with looking over your shoulders ? Nothing.but,the Blind Spot caused by the windscreen pillers,a question.
Do you move your upper body sometimes to see around these pillers ? If so,could this be a "Failure to be fully in charge of the vehicle ?"As you then are out of Sinc. with one or the other mirrors. Son in law,on driving something i had on the yard.. "This is what M/cyclists call a Widow Maker,the bloody pillers on this are mind boggling!"
Just one last question,out of real interest .
Super mike,i thought you could not have anything in the cab that takes away your attention,i know we have Sat Navs etc,but a mates reversing camera on his wagon switched off,when not in reverse and the impression he gave me was it was unlawful to have it on while going forward. Now before i get shot down in flames,the Rev/Cam fitted to my PVC has to be switched off manually,otherwise it still shows whats happening behind while i drive along.
Whats the score there then please,genuine question...NOT a trap OK? Just interested,honestly.
Tea Bag.
PS. ..... "You do not have to say anything that may harm.................. LOL"

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sdc77

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Viewing a screen whilst driving (except sat nav screens) is illegal. So camera screens count by the letter of the law....
In reality it's pretty unlikely you're going to be prosecuted for a dashcam or reversing cam ..
 

SuperMike

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I've been looking at this very problem and have a camera sitting under my nearside wing mirror. But I haven't been able to find one which isn't a wide-angle reversing camera, limiting the usefulness. What camera types are you using?

One each side, low down as you are thinking, you can see it below the mirror arm, and the rearwards camera were manufacturer installed. Those two side ones come alive, depending on the indicators and the rear one is on all the time. The other two each side, you can see them above the windows, are simple dome cameras of the type used in CCTV (£50 a pop) and are on continuously. Also there is the usual dashcam and It all feeds through a CCTV type recorder to capture all that happens around me. All the cabling is hidden behind the internal panels, as I do love a bit of wiring and Management demands not to see any of it. :) In the picture the mirrors both sides are divided into three. At the top is a wide angle one, in the middle is a large normal type side mirror and then at the bottom is a one looking low down. o_O

Picture taken whilst windscreen was being replaced. That cost the NFU £5500, but they organised it all with no trouble at all. Excellent.:clap2:

Windscreen (600 x 450).jpg
[Q
 

SuperMike

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Nobody mentioned looking backwards, to the best of my knowledge that's a trick only an Owl can perform or a little girl in the Exorcist.

Did you know that some Owls can turn their head through more than 360*. Mind boggling. :RollEyes:

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SuperMike

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Looking backwards over either shoulder is pretty useful when reversing. Or does everyone simply rely on their mirrors for that, too? ;)

Yes, in the motorhome and with the rearwards camera, of course. When I was learning my HGV , I was taught to reverse with mirrors, or a banksman. :)
 

Puddleduck

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I'M SORRY!i didn't mean to start World War 3!My sister in law is a competent driver.What conscerns us is that it appears unless we are wrong that anyone can contact the D.V.L.A and make what could be baseless claims about someones driving and they will act upon it.She has had contact with the police or anything that could have caused this action so we can only assume that it's been done out of malice.Yes of course there comes a time when we should realise that we are no longer safe to drive.My father who is 94 had a slight stroke 18 months ago and we as the family thought that would be the end of his driving.He was contacted by the stroke association who gave him details of a voluntary driving assessment.He went out with someone from the association for about an hour and they told him he was OK to carry on driving!!I am now 71 and have been driving since I was 18 and up until a couple of years ago also raced Historic Racing Cars for a hobby.I know that my reactions aren't as good as they were.It's perfectly understandable that they won't be as I get older.I wouldn't be bothered about taking a test or having my driving examined but hope that when I get that I am not up to scratch I will realise it and pack up!

Anyone can contact the DVLA with concerns but it isn't a quick and simple process. They do have to investigate though.

A neighbour of mine has been reported to the DVLA and we are pretty sure it was his optician or doctor who reported him as he has very bad vision. He did get rid of the car but now has a cycle and pony and trap!!!!
 

PeteH

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If you are driving a car or van etc why would you look over your right shoulder when overtaking?

Because EVERY vehicle has a "Blind Spot", where use of mirrors WILL NOT cover. Even when driving LGV`s (and my R-V) I STILL used to look behind. Couldn't see an awful lot but did see a Motorcyclist one day who had sneaked into my dead area while I was checking the other mirror. (and often the sneaky cyclist coming down the inside of my LH drive too).

It`s a GOOD habit to get into!

Pete
 
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Sorry looking backward over your shoulder when driving forward in a car or van is just not a safe thing to do.. no matter how many people try and justify it.
From the highway code:

Rule 267
Do not overtake unless you are sure it is safe and legal to do so. Overtake only on the right. You should

  • check your mirrors
  • take time to judge the speeds correctly
  • make sure that the lane you will be joining is sufficiently clear ahead and behind
  • take a quick sideways glance into the blind spot area to verify the position of a vehicle that may have disappeared from your view in the mirror
  • remember that traffic may be coming up behind you very quickly. Check all your mirrors carefully. Look out for motorcyclists. When it is safe to do so, signal in plenty of time, then move out
  • ensure you do not cut in on the vehicle you have overtaken
  • be especially careful at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance.

  • They key words are "into the blind spot area" which is to your right and slightly rearward over your right shoulder. It doesn't suggest an exaggerated rotation of the head BUT looking directly right out of the side window will not help you to see the blind spot - you need to look slightly rearward. I cannot believe that anyone would suggest that you will always know, from use of mirrors alone, exactly what is happening behind and to your right. To be that certain you wouldn't have any time left to look forwards - you'd be looking in the mirrors all the time. You can see the motorway drivers that don't glance right & rearward before pulling out - every so often one of them will cause a car in the blindspot to swerve or brake. If mirrors are so certain why does the test include a glance before moving off? Under those circumstances there's all the time in the world to check mirrors. A good set of blindspot mirrors is a great help on a MH and, used correctly, mean that the glance isn't quite as important.

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sdc77

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I would also add that the highway code and tips to pass a driving test are a guide and have to cover the fact that a lot of drivers don't concentrate all around and/or prioritise hazards constantly and therefore possibly wouldn't know what was going on around them. . Or what sings they recently passed etc.
Present company excepted.
 
Jun 2, 2010
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I would also add that the highway code and tips to pass a driving test are a guide and have to cover the fact that a lot of drivers don't concentrate all around and/or prioritise hazards constantly and therefore possibly wouldn't know what was going on around them. . Or what sings they recently passed etc.
Present company excepted.


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