Driving Licence needed to tow...

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Bryan, Mar 21, 2011.

  1. Bryan

    Bryan Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,096
    Likes Received:
    342
    I've been looking at the direct.gov website following a discussion with some friends...

    Please assume that tests were passed before 1997 whilst reading this.


    It appears that if you have a C1 subcategory you can drive a vehicle between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes but can only tow a trailer upto 750kgs.

    If you have a B category (car) you can drive a vehicle upto 3.5 tonnes and tow a trailer with a mam over 750 kgs


    So, if I am reading it right you can tow a 1 tonne caravan with a 3 tonne car but not a 3.6 tonne car.

    Do you agree or am I missing something?
     
  2. lunarman

    lunarman Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    872
    Location:
    South Glos
    Bryan,

    I don't think your right. When the trailer weighs more than 750kg Category B limits the maximum weight of the car trailer combination to 3500kg. Therefore to tow a 1000kg trailer the car must have an MAM of 2500kg or less.

    Lunarman
     
  3. andyman

    andyman Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    489
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    This is one for Motor Roamin (Rick) to answer. He runs a business training drivers.
     
  4. gozomike

    gozomike Funster Life Member Life Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    662
    Location:
    Warwickshire - sometimes - but not often
    Hi Bryan



    Looks very confusing but I keep reading it as a total weight of 8,250kg


    Mike
     
  5. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Location:
    Mid Cornwall
    The 750kg trailer allowance is the new limit for car drivers that need a test to tow heavier trailers.

    On older licences, the 750kg weight applies when you are driving a vehicle of 7.5t....which is what you have left of your train weight on grandfather rights, and will take you to your max 8.25t train weight. (7500KG + 750KG= 8250kg)

    Vehicles under this, will allow a little extra trailer weight - such as driving a van that is 3.5t would in THEORY give you a 4.75t trailer weight....BUT THIS WILL BE DEPENDANT ON THE TOW VEHICLES MANUFACTUER TOWING WEIGHT.

    So in PRACTICE, a vehicle of 3.5t/4.5t/5.5t and so on would be permitted to tow it's (the vehicles) maximum train weight on your licence AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT EXCEED YOUR PERMITTED 8.25T TRAIN WEIGHT.
     
  6. Bryan

    Bryan Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,096
    Likes Received:
    342
    That's what I thought...

    But according to this excerpt from the website:

    Car licences held before 1 January 1997

    All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM. They also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kgs MAM.
    Drivers who hold subcategory C1+E - limited to 8.25 tonnes MAM, may apply for provisional entitlement to the new subcategory C1+E, in order to take and pass the test which will increase their combined vehicle and trailer entitlement to 12 tonnes MAM. It is not necessary to gain subcategory C1 entitlement first but drivers have to meet higher medical standards, and pass both the category C theory test and the subcategory C1+E practical test.




    Clicking the middle link (towing trailers with vehicles between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes gives this info...

    Subcategory C1: Medium sized goods vehicles 3.5 - 7.5 tonnes MAM

    Subcategory C1 vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM allowing a combination of up to 8.25 tonnes MAM. [HI]But unlike category B, the 750kgs MAM trailer weight limit is an absolute limit.[/HI]
    In order to gain this entitlement category B licence holders have to meet higher medical standards and pass both theory and practical tests for subcategory C1.



    Therefore, towing a caravan over 750kgs with a vehicle over 3.5 tonnes is not allowed...

    That's how it reads to me...
     
  7. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    9,527
    Likes Received:
    5,583
    Location:
    Mansfield,Notts
    Seeing as it seems to relate to goods vehicles none of it applys to motorhomes:Doh:
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
  8. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Location:
    Mid Cornwall
    This is for CURRENT issue licences. One before 97 have grandfather rights.

    On the current or post 97 licences, you are not permitted to drive a vehicle over 3.5t (like a sprinter lwb) To do this, you have to take a test (c1) which allows you to drive the larger vehicle category...BUT STILL LIMITS TRAILERS TO 750KG.

    To get over this, they they need to take a trailer test, to allow them a higher trailer weight. This gives them C1+E - same as our grandfather rights....though they will then be able to tow more weight than we can!

    Our grandfather rights gives us a weight of 8.25t - modern kids (after passing 'van' and 'Trailer' test will actually have a train weight of something like 12t (IIRC) as they will be able to tow a trailer of 3.5t behind a 7.5t vehicle as they have 'full' C1+E and not restricted grandfather C1+E.

    We can 'upgrade' our towing ability by taking a trailer test, which will raise these limits on par - but for what most of us require, we need not always want or use the benefit of higher allowance. We would still be li,ited to a 7.5t vehicle - whereas the younger fraternity could drive 10t (rigid only)
     
  9. Terry

    Terry Funster

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    10,722
    Likes Received:
    6,224
    Location:
    South yorks
    Without hi jacking this thread what licence does a 17 tr old require for a quad bike ?
    MC PROVISIONAL ?
    MC FULL ?
    CAR PROV ?
    or CAR FULL?
    terry
     
  10. Bryan

    Bryan Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,096
    Likes Received:
    342

    But doesn't our grandfather rights to C1+E have a code 107 which also restricts trailers to 750 kgs?
     
  11. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Location:
    Mid Cornwall
    Yes on 7.5t - smaller vehicles would allow the weight of the trailer to rise.!

    If you were to get yourself a new C1 licence tomorrow, you would STILL be restricted in trailer weight by this code.
     
  12. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Location:
    Mid Cornwall
    M/C Provional - NO REVERSE GEAR!

    (Remember the old loop hole with old robin reliants??)
     
  13. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Messages:
    1,535
    Likes Received:
    785
    Location:
    Leicester
    Bummer I have read all this thread and now I am confused, and I am supposed to know. :Rofl1:

    So can I start again please.

    Brian your origonal post assumed the holder of the licence passed his test prior to Jan 1997.

    He/She will have on their licence

    Catagory B Car licence

    Catagory B+E Car and Trailer only weight restriction will be what the car can legaly tow.

    C1 up to 7.5ton gross

    C1+E with 107 restriction Max 7.5ton with a maximum gross train weight of 8.25 ton.

    The 8.25 is made up of the Gross weight of the towing vehicle + the gross weight of the trailer, so if your towing vehicle has a GVW of 6ton and a GTW of 8.5ton the maximum trailer weight allowable is 2.25 ton because of the 107 restriction.

    The tow vehicle cannot exceed 7.5 ton because of the C1 licence is restricted to that weight, and the train weight cannot exceed 8.25 ton because of the 107 restriction.

    In all licence catagories the +E is a trailer.

    Hope this makes sense and clears up the questions.

    All the best Rick.
     
  14. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Location:
    Mid Cornwall
    ^^You explain it so much better!:Wink:
     
  15. Bryan

    Bryan Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,096
    Likes Received:
    342
    Thanks for the replies.

    I've just double checked and I think our confusion came from thinking that the 107 code on the C1+E category meant that trailers were limited to 750kgs when in fact the 107 code means 'not more than 8250kg'

    So this means that I am correct that a pre-97 licence holder with C1+E code 107 can drive a car with a GVWR of 5 tonnes towing a caravan of 3 tonnes legally?
     
  16. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Location:
    Mid Cornwall
    Yup!

    There are width/length issues which shouldn't bother you. The length mustn't exceed (IIRC) 36FT.

    Is that still in force, Rick? Doesn't mention on DVLA website.

    Width is only for smaller tow vehicles - effectively, any wider than standard caravan (such as hobby) has to be towed by something over 3.5t.
     
  17. upmarkethippy

    upmarkethippy Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Hull

    Hello, My understanding from when i used to drive 7.5 tonner was:::

    The max gross train weight should be no more than 8.25 tonne. There is not max trailer weight, so theoretically you could have an empy truck and a trailer of 3 tonne if the truck would allow.

    Just as a warning though::::

    If you had a 7.5 tonner and you did put a trailer behind, vosa and police will only except the plated gross weight on the both vehicles added together, so a 7.5tonner and an ivor williams flat bed with max gross of 3.5 tonne would in their eyes give you a ticket.

    Enjoy the joys of the tech language and finding those grey areas!!

    Cheyne
     
  18. upmarkethippy

    upmarkethippy Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Hull
    Hello again,
    Not sure on the length but have been 'pulled' by the police with a total lenght of 58 foot and they were not bothered ( this was a land rover and american caravan).
    As long as it is sufficiently warning boarded and lit...

    As for the max width, i believe that earlier this year the law was changed to bring us in aline with europe. so now you can tow upto 2.5 meters wide with a car, not that i would want to.

    Happy motoring

    Cheyne
     
  19. Bryan

    Bryan Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,096
    Likes Received:
    342

    Interested to hear more about car & caravan length limits...

    If there is a limit, what is it?
    Is the length measured nose to tail or do you discount the a-frame/drawbar?

    I ask because some American caravans can be quite long.
     
  20. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,466
    Likes Received:
    16,913
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    i agree with Rick...

    cat B+E is only restricted by the max train of the car.

    Alan, he of the homebuilt 5er, runs a mitsubushi or isuzu...cant remember which...which is downplated to 3.5t to bring it in line with cat B+E, but has a train of over 9tons....he can legally tow up to a 5.5 ton trailer.
     
Loading...

Share This Page