drippers (1 Viewer)

Feb 24, 2013
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I suspect they had opened before moving, so being 200m from their pitch I would guess, if fully open, what I saw / got were the dregs, probably the worst part though. If only part open, who knows how long it would take to fully empty

But in this case with a near side grey dump valve, every right hand bend they took for a good way was going to send a few more litres potentially over other unprepared pedestrians, it throws out quite a way when moving!!

It is not the quantity for me, it is the image and in my recent case the offence at effectively having a washing up bowl of water tipped down my legs (possibly slightly exaggerated, but a cup full would have done the same)

I don't mind dumping on a grassy site (within reason, presuming it is not a pitch about to be reused) such as a rally site, but close the valve before driving off

Pretty please :thumb:
 

Al-Di

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Mar 15, 2014
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just had a chat with a vosa friend, yes he has 1,

if they saw this they would deem as insecure load and probably fine the driver,

remeber they are self financing now so everything goes,


personally I dont think that would happen,

Alan,
 
Sep 10, 2012
2,118
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worcester
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Sunliving van
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2012
Why o why does indiscriminate gray waste dumping keep getting posted about. There will always be a difference of opinion between those that do and those that dont. Does it really matter in the grand scale of things.
I will be draining down both grey and fresh water after stratford on tothe grass. If it s raining i will leave the taps open on the way home. If its dry i will close them and drain anything left onto my drive.
Its only water!''''

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Jun 23, 2013
251
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Hurworth-on-Tees, Darlington, UK
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Knaus Sun Ti 650 MEG
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Since July 2013 but been camping for 25+ years
I always dump my grey waste in the provided drain (where provided and I've been surprised by the amount of sites that don't have any drive over drains!), then clip the pipe back up to the chassis, but do not close the outlet off. As the pipe outlet is higher than bottom of the grey waste tank, only 'extreme' cornering is going to produce a 'dribble'. Should I be locked up ? :RollEyes:
 

Tootles

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just had a chat with a vosa friend, yes he has 1

Better tell him he's out of a job. VOSA finished in April this year. It's now DVSA :thumb:

The DVSA are pretty limited in what action they can take against non-goods vehicles for water dripping from a pipe. Only if the liquid was of a 'corrosive or radio-active, or of a chemical nature', and it could be proved that the liquid was being carried in a vehicle not so designed to carry such a liquid. The discharge of water onto a carriageway is not an offence. Gully machines, road sweeper machines, and even road rollers do this daily. As for 'insecure load' in the case of water, the regulating authorities would have to prove that this water was not being carried in a secure vessel designed to contain it. ie, a tank. :Smile:
 

Ed Excel

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Nov 27, 2012
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Thats an easy one to answer. Step one, stick your index finger into it.
Step two, sniff your finger. Step three, (only for the very brave), have a lick.
If people in this world have got sod all else to do except 'wonder' what may be the content of something lying in the road, then they should get a hobby. :thumb:

Still not the point, even ignoring the fact you've taken my comment out of context. It's very unlikely anyone would stop and check what's been dumped, they'd just see a motorhomer dropping a liquid which, as far as they knew, could be sewage :Eeek:.

Getting acceptance of our hobby, by the general public, is difficult enough without giving them reason to reject us :thumb:.

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Jaws

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Sep 26, 2008
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Getting accepted ? !!!
You know, we still consider our selves newbees as we only have 8 years 'behind the wheel', but the one thing we have noticed is the MASSIVE increase in vans on the road.. To the point that Woman often comments when we do use sites how they are cashing in on the popularity and upping the prices etc ( not ALL sites, far from it, but a good many )

I really think the general public either do not give a flying foofoo or else end up joining the merry throng !!

If someone is that paranoid about being 'accepted' they believe an open tap will lead to ostracised from the human race, that is fine by me.. but please accept the fact that I, and a good many others ( whether they admit it or not ) really aint that fussed !

I have been a motorbike owner and rider since the mid 1960's.. If you want stories about not being accepted ask anyone who has done the same.

And all the people who have wailed and gnashed their teeth in woe that 'loud exhausts, riding too fast, 'queue jumping, etc etc etc' will make motorcyclists even less acceptable to non riders are now staying very quiet indeed.. Motorcycling has got almost elitist nowadays.. Costs alone restrict a lot of folk and many 'professional' types now opt for a bike rather than a car..

The public, in general, do not give a second thought to a whole host of things.. Including the occasional trail of water on the road that can be traced to a MH up in front !!

About the only consistent moan I hear in my many guises is how much they ( MH ) hold traffic up.. Which in most cases nowadays is another fallacy.. Yep, there are those who drive slowly and good luck to them ( usually they are the type that will tell everyone what a great driver they are and actually BELIEVE what they are saying LOL !!! ) but for me, live and let live is the order of the day...................
 
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Tootles

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Still not the point, even ignoring the fact you've taken my comment out of context. It's very unlikely anyone would stop and check what's been dumped, they'd just see a motorhomer dropping a liquid which, as far as they knew, could be sewage :Eeek:.

Getting acceptance of our hobby, by the general public, is difficult enough without giving them reason to reject us :thumb:.

They don't know wether sink water or shite is being dumped.

How did I possibly take the above statement out of context with the answer I gave?? You dont know about something, then you either find out, (my post), or you ignore and walk away. Also, 'dumping' is a much to emphatic a statement. We are talking about a dribble of water here, not twenty tons of assorted building refuse being dropped off the back of a tipper truck at midnight. Why is it so important for you to be accepted by total strangers, who you will probably never meet?
What matters is what you yourself know, and if your conscience troubles you on this subject, then maybe a campaign of information would be your best option. Have some flyers made up, and stick one on every MH windscreen you come across. That would certainly get your message over. :thumb:::bigsmile:
 

Ed Excel

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I'm beginning to see why restrictions on motorhomes are common in this country. Is it not obvious that any antisocial action by motorhoming individuals could have an adverse effect on all of us? Don't give 'em any more reasons to ban us:cry:.

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John & Joan

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Mar 30, 2010
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The original 2012 and renewed 2014 temporary prohibition by Scarborough Borough Council, cited this dumping of waste water as a reason for their ban.

Although no evidence was produced, other than anecdotal, they still went ahead.

Other councils have TROs that say:
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]No person shall use any part of a parking place or any vehicle parked in a parking place- [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]To cause (permit) a discharge onto the surface of the parking place or any road drain therein of any coolant, oil, fuel or any other liquid. [/FONT]
So this practice is causing all of us problems. However instead of pursuing the perpetrators they ban us all instead.
New Zealand has the answer in my opinion. All water outlets must be caped was well as turned off ,while the vehicle is in use on the highway or wild parking to protect environmentally sensitive area. Link Removed
North Yorkshire County Council are now seeking to make permanent a ban on Motor Caravans parking between 23:00 and 07:00 on the grounds of amenity. Just what is meant by amenity? This has just been advertised in the local papers as "CONSULTATION RE. MOTOR CARAVAN PROHIBITION – A174, SANDSEND TO RAITHWAITE SEAFRONT PARKING "

Dear Sir/Madam,


CONSULTATION RE. MOTOR CARAVAN PROHIBITION – A174, SANDSEND TO RAITHWAITE SEAFRONT PARKING


As you may be aware, the County Council, as Highway Authority, introduced temporary traffic restrictions in 2012 to prevent motor caravans parking between the hours of 11pm and 7am at Sandsend on the A174, covering the parking area. In order to make these measures permanent, the Council is required to consult those directly affected by the proposal. The purpose of this letter is to provide you with details of the restrictions and allow you the opportunity to express your views.
[STRIKE]Attached is a plan showing the extent of the restrictions [/STRIKE]and a simple questionnaire to enable you to signify your views. Please return questionnaires by 16th June 2014.
North Yorkshire County Council welcomes those using motor caravans to its sea-side resorts. The relevant streets are sea-front locations, where it is considered that the overnight parking of motor caravans significantly detracts from the amenity of the local area and the lives of those living in the streets.
If there are no reasonable objections to the proposals, it is anticipated that the restrictions will be made permanent within six months from the end of the consultation period. If objections are raised which are not resolved or withdrawn, it will be necessary to report the matter to the County Council’s Area Committee which will decide on the course of action to be pursued.
Members of the public may attend the Committee meeting and make a statement or ask questions subject to various conditions. The date and venue of any applicable Committee meeting together with conditions regarding public access will be advised if applicable. Please note that the process in dealing with traffic regulation order objections is currently under review. I trust this is satisfactory and look forward to receiving your comments.
Yours faithfully

Nick West
Area Manager
The questionnaire can be obtained from area3.whitby@nothyorks,gov.uk

The notice I received had the words "Attached is a plan showing the extent of the restrictions and" struck through and no plan was attached. The council has not yet replied to my request for a plan.

There will be no ban on other category M vehicles (Cars M1, Buses M2 or M3), Hearses or Ambulances both (M1(SP)) like motor caravans or on Goods vehicles category (N) or Trailer (including caravans) category (O), from parking during these hours.

The Caravan Club, Motorhome Organisation and The Motor Caravan Tourism Organisation have been listed together with the statutory authorities as interested bodies to be consulted. Any other person that could be affected is also able to take part in this consultation.

John


 
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OP
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sadlonelygit

sadlonelygit

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Jan 28, 2014
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just done a little digging and contrary to:
The Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986,
Regulation 62 and Section 42 of
the Road Traffic Act 1988, SO-4
offence code IM44A
£50 fixed penalty
 

Tootles

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just done a little digging and contrary to:
The Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986,
Regulation 62 and Section 42 of
the Road Traffic Act 1988, SO-4
offence code IM44A
£50 fixed penalty

What is 'contrary'?? Can you be a little more specific please?? C&U is a huge document.


Anyway, it says 'PERSIL' on the sides of buses, but they don't take in washing! :thumb:

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Tootles

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[quote
Other councils have TROs that say:
No person shall use any part of a parking place or any vehicle parked in a parking place- To cause (permit) a discharge onto the surface of the parking place or any road drain therein of any coolant, oil, fuel or any other liquid.][/quote]

TROs are not law.

And where is this coming from, might I ask?? A private parking area is not the highway, as described in this thread.
 

John & Joan

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[quote
Other councils have TROs that say:
No person shall use any part of a parking place or any vehicle parked in a parking place- To cause (permit) a discharge onto the surface of the parking place or any road drain therein of any coolant, oil, fuel or any other liquid.]

TROs are not law.

And where is this coming from, might I ask?? A private parking area is not the highway, as described in this thread.[/QUOTE]

Public access makes private land public
Highway not limited to the metalled carriageway itself but incorporates the width of the public highway from the centre of the carriageway to the building line of property or adjacent land. "Road" is defined in the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 as "... any length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access...". While the Act does not define "Highway", at common law it is a way over which all members of the public have a right to pass and re-pass.
 
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Mar 23, 2012
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We have a couple of holiday lets in Whitby and the I get the general feeling against motorhomes has nothing to do with waste water. In the town parking is at a premium motorhomers are seen as taking spaces where 2 cars at least could park and in years gone by have parked on the west cliff for nothing. The B&B owners see motorhomes as an eyesore and feel they generate no income hence the bad feeling despite the plans a couple of years ago for an aire. I don't agree with any of this but waste water is an excuse for the action not the cause of it. Just for the record we don't dump on the road but often in a lay by to me it's just water. I can't figure out wh we dont have flot bleu in the UK at service stations/supermarkets they are missing a big draw to encourage shoppers.

David

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John & Joan

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We have now had a reply from NYCC

I will need to confirm this with the Area Highways Office, but I believe that the “amenities” issue is effectively linked to the environmental reasons cited in the temporary Orders, i.e. to prevent waste being deposited onto the highway


I also now have a plan that shows the prohibition is for the roadside sea front parking area from the village of Sandend towards Whitby centred on N 54.499001° -0.661809°
 

Tootles

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incorporates the width of the public highway from the centre of the carriageway to the building line of property or adjacent land.

Your running around in circles with this one. If a local authority owns land that they have designated as a parking area, that's fine. But by adding restrictions that do not appertain to what could be described as a 'public highway', (because it is their land, and they are perfectly at liberty to impose restrictions), then that land ceases to be a 'public highway' under the meaning of the act.
Example. Supermarket car park. Under your definition, that car-park would become a 'highway' once the public has access to it. So that would mean that normal road traffic, parking and civil regulations, would appertain to that land???? Not so. The land is owned by whichever supermarket chain, the parking is administered by them, (usually through a private company), and disclaimer boards are displayed laying out civil responsibility.
Just because a local authority declare a TRO, does not make that same TRO law. I'm afraid that your 'argument waste tank' does not hold water!! ::bigsmile::winky:
 

John & Joan

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What is a Traffic Regulation Order?​
A TRO is the legal instrument by which traffic authorities implement most traffic management controls on their roads. Under the provisions of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, local authorities can implement Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs), designed to regulate, restrict or prohibit the use of a road or any part of the width of a road by vehicular traffic or pedestrians. A TRO may take effect at all times or during specified periods, and certain classes of traffic may be exempted from a TRO.​

Broken Link Removed

When can a TRO be implemented?​
A TRO may be implemented for one or more of the following purposes:​
Avoiding danger to persons or traffic;

Preventing damage to the road or to buildings nearby;

Facilitating the passage of traffic;

Preventing use by unsuitable traffic;

Preserving the character of a road especially suitable for walking or horse riding;

Preserving or improving amenities of the area through which the road runs;

For any of the purpose specified in paragraphs (a) to (c) of the Environment Act 1995 in relation to air quality.

Orders can also be made for roads in special areas of the countryside (e.g. National Parks) for the purpose of conserving or enhancing the natural beauty of the area. TROs can also be implemented to allow for improved access to recreational opportunities or to provide for the study of nature

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Tootles

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Infringement of a TRO is a CIVIL MATTER. CIVIL MATTERS are not CRIMINAL MATTERS. For instance, a police officer cannot enforce a TRO. You cannot have points deducted from your licence for infringing a TRO. Many questions must be answered before a TRO can be enforced.
1. Is the official legally allowed to issue a fine for TRO infringement.
2. Is that person employed by the local authority?
3. Can that person supply id?
4. Has that person been trained in the enforcement procedure?
5. Can that person supply proof of his/her training?
6. Can that person supply proof that the TRO that they are enforcing has been applied according to the civil law? (ie, a copy of the local newspaper announcement of the TRO implementation?)

If one or more of the above measures have not been ascertained, you are under no obligation to supply your details, and neither is the TRO enforceable.

Anyway, all this is drifting away from the point. We could go on all night discussing the rights, wrongs, and legitimacy of TROs.

Can I leave you with this??
discharging poisonous, noxious or polluting matter or solid waste matter into inland freshwater, coastal waters and relevant territorial waters. The legislation does not define poisonous, noxious or polluting. These words are normally given their ordinary meanings.
discharging trade or sewage effluent into inland freshwater, coastal waters and relevant territorial waters
Sorry, no mention of highways.
And by the by, the addition of a smiley or two would help to take your venom out of this. :thumb:::bigsmile:
 

John & Joan

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Infringement of a TRO is a CIVIL MATTER. CIVIL MATTERS are not CRIMINAL MATTERS. For instance, a police officer cannot enforce a TRO. You cannot have points deducted from your licence for infringing a TRO. Many questions must be answered before a TRO can be enforced.
1. Is the official legally allowed to issue a fine for TRO infringement.
2. Is that person employed by the local authority?
3. Can that person supply id?
4. Has that person been trained in the enforcement procedure?
5. Can that person supply proof of his/her training?
6. Can that person supply proof that the TRO that they are enforcing has been applied according to the civil law? (ie, a copy of the local newspaper announcement of the TRO implementation?)

If one or more of the above measures have not been ascertained, you are under no obligation to supply your details, and neither is the TRO enforceable.

Anyway, all this is drifting away from the point. We could go on all night discussing the rights, wrongs, and legitimacy of TROs.

Can I leave you with this??
Sorry, no mention of highways.
And by the by, the addition of a smiley or two would help to take your venom out of this. :thumb:::bigsmile:

No venom this end. Point taken though. I just don't use smileys

The point is that dribblers ARE affecting all of us

John
 
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OddSocks

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Hazardous or not. better or worse than anything else isn't the point. It's how it is seen by other road users and pedestrians.

If motorhomers are seen to be behaving in an irresponsible manner they will never be welcome.

So it is OK to do it if it is raining? Because if it were, no one would know you were dribbling all the way home, it would just get mixed up in the rain and wet on the roads. That way, we won't be being seen to be irresponsible! WIN!! :thumb::thumb:

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Tootles

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No venom this end. Point taken though. I just don't use smileys

The point is that dribblers ARE affecting all of us

John

John, I don't disagree with you one iota! My point(s) were simply that in the BIG picture, it matters not a jot! :thumb:
 

Scattycat

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I have to admit that I've not read all of this thread so my comments may have already been voiced by others.

In my opinion if someone is purposly letting their waste water drip over the road as they drive then they know that they are probably doing wrong which, for me make it inexcusable.
If you are not going to use a dedicated grey water dosposal point then be honest about it and openly empty it down a road drain or grass verge or similar place
::bigsmile:

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Tude

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Grey waste

Well if you goto the Ccc site at Bakewell they tell you to put your grey waste
In the bushes or grass it has neutriants in it mr Bellamy told the site manager
It's ok???
Tude
 

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