Domestic - Heat Source Air Pump

Discussion in 'Heating and Air-Conditioning' started by canopus, Jan 22, 2016.

  1. canopus

    canopus Funster Life Member

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    Just considering our options re the heating/hot water system in the bungalow we moved to in October. The boiler, hot water cylinder are relatively new, but the rads and pipework are probably original from when the place was built.

    The bungalow is built on a concrete raft/slab and the pipework is embedded in the floor. Not sure to what extent whether the pipes are in sand with soft fill as there is laminate floor everywhere.

    Do we install a new System boiler (pressurised) and route new pipes down the walls from the loft, dig out the old pipe from the floor and replace to be on the safe side or what?

    We are also considering a Air Source heat Pump and just wondered if anybody had one?
     
  2. Smith and Sharp

    Smith and Sharp Funster

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    I have a Mitsubishi air heat source system...
    House been built for five years.
    With these systems the property has to be very well insulated as the radiators don't get as hot as a gas fired system, when it's running to give heat it heats my house very well and stays warm for a long time after due to the insulation, I find it cheep to run when it's running....

    However, I have an electricity monitor and when the heating is not running I noticed it was still drawing power as the power unit outside the house is always on standby ( a bit like a fridge ) so in the summer I turn it off at the mains. For hot water I put the emersion on.

    Other then that I find it ok but some others in my road don't like it..
    Anything else just ask..(y)
     
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  3. mitzimad

    mitzimad Funster

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    If you go down the air source route be sure to find an installer who is experienced in them evidently the are quite difficult to specify properly
     
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  4. The Wino

    The Wino Funster

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    Is there a problem at present could do a powerflush on the pipes and fit new rads as a cheaper option
     
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  5. Violet1

    Violet1

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    Be careful considered air source heat pump when doing new build not as efficient as made out , ground source better. Works best with wet underfloor heating as rads need to be hotter . Try Cookes in Norwich for quotes etc. Eventually went with solar. Hope it helps
     
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  6. dabhand

    dabhand Funster Life Member

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    If the pipe work is ok just put new rads up. This will probably last longer than you and work better than existing and be a much easier install than a ground source heat pump which, as stated runs (normally) at much lower temperatures. We have underfloor heating, I love it and would never have radiators if doing a new build, often not worth doing on a refurb unless your prepared for a lot of mess and/or you are putting new floors in.
    However, if the floors are ropey and you are going to dig them out anyway, underfloor heating is unbeatable in my opinion, you will need to watch the threshold levels in the house though as to do the job properly you need at least 50mm of insulation, including behind skirtings, and 100mm of screed to bury the pipes in.

    If the place is warm I'm not sure I'd be ripping stuff out if I didn't have to.
     
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  7. The gasman

    The gasman Funster

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    Take the radiators out and put in air to air heat pumps. This is just air-conditioning which works backwards. Air source wet systems don't get hot enough for rads
     
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  8. jonandshell

    jonandshell Funster

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    We are looking at heat pumps for a project we have started.
    As mentioned previously, your existing high temperature radiators need to be swapped out for larger low temperature ones.
    Trying to run a heat pump at too high an output temperature severely affects efficiency.
    Good insulation is also a must.
    We are doing a conversion on a building and one of the requirements is insulating to bring all the U values (insulation efficiency) of windows, walls, floors and roof down to that of the spec of new builds.
    Heating will be underfloor and because we will have a bit of land, a ground source heat pump will be utilised due to their better coefficient of performance.
    Don't forget, there is the Governments Renewable Heat Incentive too. This will pay you over 7 years for the heat your new system produces. However, your installation needs to be installed by a registered installer and the house must comply with certain insulation standards too.
     
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  9. Zains Pops

    Zains Pops Funster

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    In the OP you don't tell us of the current fuel powering the heating. If you have mains gas stay with it. Heat pumps are a alternative if mains gas unavailable. The issues have all been mentioned, insulation is the key. An air to water system is ok but as stated the water temperatures are not as high as gas and look out for the KW heat output, nowhere near a decent gas boiler system. You also need to consider the size (total amps) of the electricity supply and the cost of a possible upgrade.
     
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  10. jonegood

    jonegood Funster

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    We have had an airsource heatpump in one of our holiday cottages for 4 years.

    Its terrible!!!

    Its all known brand stuff, but IMO there are too many controls, and they fail as well as components in the heatpump regularly fail and then its difficult to find someone to fix it; do you need a plumber and electrician or an air conditioning engineer. Its just gone wrong again, crippled by a minor component failure just when you need it most.

    I ve been threatening to replace it for 4 years and as soon as we get back we are going to rip it out and stick a worcester combi in.

    Jon

    btw, dont bank on the grants.
     
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  11. laird of Dunstan

    laird of Dunstan Funster Life Member

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    A buddy of mine has recently done a barn conversion with solar,air source heat pumps and a heat store. It took me the best part of a day to figure out how to make it all work at its maximum efficiency , i considered installing a cheap bms system which would have been fine for me but to complicated for your average Joe .
    I would go with the underfloor heating system and find out if you have off peak electricity ,this can be a fraction of the cost that you run during day time,and use that to drive a heat store ( emersion heater tank type cylinder), that way you can have enough reserve heat to take part of the load during the day and then have it run along side the air source heat pump or ground source if you have the land .
    Ive got my mates house set up so that he uses his washing machines at 2 am etc and that the water is heated from the low price tarrif , but all of this is down to Insulating your property correctly (y)
     
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  12. Ambilkate

    Ambilkate Funster Life Member

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    Our bungelow is built on a slab to Ken . We have a Worcester combi LPG . We found this quite sufficient . All pipes and radiators Bill replaced . The pipes Bill put under concrete floor protected in plastic sleeves . If you keep old pipework Bill recommends that you use a pressurised flush system before reconnection .
    Kate x
     
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  13. canopus

    canopus Funster Life Member

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    Currently on oil - no town gas available only LPG bulk.

    Not a fan of combi boilers, if they go wrong you've no hot water or heating. Always like to have an alternative if possible i.e immersion heater. Ideally would like a System boiler if we are going down that route but question is will the old pipes below the floor screed cope with 1.5 bar. Quandary then being if we dig the floor up for pipe replacement do we dig it all up and put an underfloor wet system instead, hence the original question on Air Source Heat Pumps.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  14. mitzimad

    mitzimad Funster

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    the condition of your existing pipework will depend on how it was fitted originally how old it is and have you ever had problems with it
    generally speaking copper pipework will last indefinitley on the right system and corectly fitted
    ive had jobs less than two years old popping and in a right state but badly fitted
    my brothers house has been done over thirty five years, pipes on ground floor are all buried in screed and sytem is open vented with no problems the rads are at least ten years older as they were ones i had taken out of an office refurb job
     
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  15. canopus

    canopus Funster Life Member

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    We have no idea how it was fitted originally, save to say that the house is a one off, and was built in the early 70's probably to the original owners spec. Assuming, the pipework was installed correctly, i.e. wrapped with the old style lagging, before screeding, and given that copper pipe was better quality 40 odd years ago, we are optimistic about leaving it in situ. We are erring towards probably just changing the rads and installing a new gravity boiler (which is external btw) and forgetting about the underfloor heating and Air Source Heat Pump option. This option would cause too much upheaval, cost a lot more, for little gain with a possible system that could be prone to problems.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
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  16. tonyidle

    tonyidle Funster

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    I updated mine with a modern boiler & new rads. The pipework (under a suspended wooden floor) is original and was installed in the late '50s. It took me a while to flush but it has been running now for 10 years with no issues. The boiler is NG by the way.
     
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  17. Ambilkate

    Ambilkate Funster Life Member

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    ours has been running 9 yrs no issues Bill flushed once in the nine yrs no probs only use 2 x 47 's gas bottles a year with two ready to go on when needed
     
  18. canopus

    canopus Funster Life Member

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    If you get 10 years out of a boiler these days you've done well I was told by a plumber.
     
  19. dabhand

    dabhand Funster Life Member

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    Not if you buy the right boiler, cast iron heat exchanger etc. depends on system and btw referring to your earlier point about dropping pipes through attic, I repiped a whole heating system in 4 hours in plastic by doing this so you don't need to touch the floor anyway just use copper around the boiler!
     
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  20. tonyidle

    tonyidle Funster

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    Don't think you'll find a cast iron heat exchanger on any modern boiler. Mine is stainless steel & very low water content as are all condensing boilers I've seen. (Which actually isn't that many:)).
     
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