dodgy clutch - again

Discussion in 'Tech/Mech General' started by nick_belle, Aug 12, 2008.

  1. nick_belle

    nick_belle Deleted User

    Just come back from a trip to France and I had clutch slip - why?

    Clutch slipped when going up steep hills towing a 300kilo trailer and cruise control on. Slip happened when the cruise control accelerated us up the hill. When I switched autocruise off, it was difficult to get the clutch to slip - got it to do it once.

    Before thr trip I had the engine remapped ( Peugeot 2.8TDI ) and the cruise control fitted.

    Now that we're back, without a trailer i cannot get the clutch to slip at all.

    Is the clutch damaged?
    Is the remapped engine too powerful for the clutch?
    Is the cruise control too aggressive when accelerating?

    I just can't work it out. The van has 25k on the clock and I have already had a new clutch assembly at 15k when the pressure plate went soft through a broken spline :Eeek:.

    This time the clutch is holding much better than when the pressure plate was soft - so guess it's not that.

    It will cost a lot to drop the gearbox to see what is going on.

    Any insights?
     
  2. johnsandywhite

    johnsandywhite Read Only Funster

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    Cruise control? :Wink:
     
  3. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    In my opinion you now have a clutch that isn't up to the new torque available and weight being used when towing, without the re map I doubt that you would get slip in any conditions as you wouldn't have the power to cause it, A severe duty clutch unit next time me thinks, breaking a clutch @ 15k is unusual to say the least and would suggest you may be a heavy user, and by that I don't mean poor driver:RollEyes:
    Geo
     
  4. johnsandywhite

    johnsandywhite Read Only Funster

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    :Smile: Extra power certainly can be the cause. But trying to maintain a high speed up hills via the cruise control won't help. :Rofl1:
     
  5. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Sorry must be the cruise control then:Doh:
     
  6. American Dream

    American Dream Read Only Funster

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    You guys will go tweaking these motors.:RollEyes:I guess it was to increase the overall torque output of the engine and "driveability"

    Slightly off-topic.I had a car that had the ICU Software tweaked and was told that if it was serviced then the settings will revert to normal and to advise the mechanic it had been done.

    Is this the case with this one or is it a physical chip that is changed.Software or Hardware Mod...Oh You know what I mean.:Doh:

    Engine Remapping suggests software.

    Also is there a liability to inform the insurance company?

    As said before (In Geo's Post) it sounds like the clutch now isn't up to it, or very marginal on handling the power.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2008
  7. nick_belle

    nick_belle Deleted User

    Yep,

    In my heart of hearts Ithought it might be too much power for the clutch. Just when I thought I had everything sorted...cruise control, bags of power, and then you find there's something else to change.

    I still have the old clutch Peugeot clutchplate in the garage and it is amazingly small for what it is supposed to do - my old VW type 2 camper clutches where bigger!!

    tell me more about uprated clutch plates - is there such a thing? Where do I get it?

    N
     
  8. madbluemad

    madbluemad

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    After doing a bit of reading on automatic transmision it is always reccomended that cruise control is turned off when in hilly areas, so I reckon its not a problem with your engine rather the way that you are using your cruise control

    Jim :Smile:
     
  9. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    tell me more about uprated clutch plates - is there such a thing? Where do I get it?
    N[/quote]


    Well Nick what a can of worms you have opened, I have checked on your behalf just what is and isn't available and its not good news, in their endeavour to maximise MPG they are making engines and gearboxes smaller and lighter
    the result is there is no longer sufficient room for a larger clutch Assembly, there now being only one clutch that will fit I imagine your clutch to be in the region of 230 mm Dia, the older boxer clutches were nearer to 275 -290mm as you can see they have reduced the drive area quite substantially, you have added to the problem by having the power output increased, taking it to what I believe to over the acceptable limits for a drive plate of that size, I don't know who did the remap or what gains you have, but in my opinion an increase in excess of 30 BHP is asking for trouble, you may have asked or been given more,It may be a case of down tuning slightly to avoid too much load on the drive plate.
    The only other option is to request a purpose built clutch, (a one off) from AP Racing or the likes, you have the benefit of having an old unit as a pattern but this will run into a lot of bear tokens:Eeek:
    I don't think the Cruise control is in anyway to blame despite my earlier sarcasm :Eeek:
    As you can see your left with only two options de tune or upgrade the clutch
    One other area often overlooked on chipped or mapped engines, the cam belt takes a heavier load and the cam belt change interval should be shortened to extreame use periods
    hope some of that helps
    Geo
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2008
  10. American Dream

    American Dream Read Only Funster

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    Last edited: Aug 15, 2008
  11. nick_belle

    nick_belle Deleted User

    Really good guidance here.....and something I just had not thought of although I did a lot of research before the remap on the pro's an cons.

    Clutch never came into the debate - and thanks for the suggestion on cam belt.

    Had the remap done by a local garage - (Ferndown) all very good - desoldered and removed chip, stored old program, then downloaded a new map from their suppliers over the internet and resoldered the chip. I told them I wanted the mapping to enable me to tow without having to chane gear so much on inclines.

    The difference in power is unknown - but she can now fly if you push her and has much longer legs over 3500rpm - no flat curve.

    What surprises me is that with vans running at 3850kilo and in many cases much more, I would have thought this type of clutch issue would have been mentioned a bit more.

    Yes, I can go back and have the remap 'softened', or look into an exotic clutch - only the last clutch replacement bill damn near my my nose bleed for a week, so am hesitant.

    Certainly the cruise control being switched off up hill is good advice - it will always try to accelerate you up a hill and when it does accelerate it is foot to the floor stuff, not just gently nudging the peddle.


    I'll talk to the remapping garage later this week. Thanks for all your guidance.
     
  12. American Dream

    American Dream Read Only Funster

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    Sounds like the torque curve has been substantially altered, hence the effortless pulling up hills.They have done what was asked, but surely must have considered other weak links in the transmission system!!

    The clutch would be loaded with much more torque and will inevitably slip.

    Has the clutch recovered or do you suspect it has worn/burnt the friction surfaces down and needs replacing?Heat could also warp the clutch parts and weaken the pressure plate spring.

    I'd certainly be tempted to change down for the hills to avoid this.

    Good point about not using cruise on long uphill inclines.:thumb:
     
  13. nick_belle

    nick_belle Deleted User

    Luckily the clutch is good. If we are not towing it is near impossible to get it to slip.

    We just did a qiuck trip to Devon (saw the rain and cut our losses) and with all those hills there was no issue.

    A niggle at the back of mu mind is that because the last clutch issue was the pressure plate and not the clutch itself, I was wondering if as well as being a small clutch, it is again the pressure plate not having the strength that is part of the problem.

    Am toying with the idea of having a go in the winter of getting the clutch out to inspect it. Is it a practical DIY project?
     
  14. johnsandywhite

    johnsandywhite Read Only Funster

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    :RollEyes: That's why I suggested the Cruise control. I know Geo disagrees. But having driven Autos in Cruise for the last 8 years. The kick down can be vicious at times and I personally think this would aggravate the clutch problem. I always used to knock off the cruise when climbing hills. I think I can control the speed and engine revs better and more economically than any cruise control can. :thumb:
     
  15. ray

    ray Read Only Funster

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    probably nothing to do with it but I had 3 clutches in a 2.5TD Peugeot autosleeper Exec based on the Talbot Express in 33,000miles. Was never sure if the change in engine noise was due to the turbo cutting in or clutch slip.
    When the last clutch was fitted they changed the clutch cable as well, fingers crossed, problem solved. Now certain it was clutch slip as when I put my foot down (gently) It takes off now when the turbo cuts in without that noise. Problem had been there from new.
     
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