Dashcam Illegality in Europe (1 Viewer)

Minxy

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I accepted that the edict did not come from the EU, however, if you want to have "a good rant" feel free.

I have just received news that a close friend has died. Just got the message 30 minutes after posting a Christmas card to him and his family!:(

Everything else pales into insignificance compared to that.
My condolences ... :xsad:
 
May 8, 2016
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You may wish to check your facts a little. The Universal declaration of human rights (which I assume is what you mean, since there is no such thing as the UN Declaration of Human Rights) was penned by a team of British Lawyers shortly after the end of the second world war. It was then accepted by the rest of the UN, and later the EU, so you could argue that the UK forced the ECHR on the rest of the world rather than vice versa.

Anyway, as previously pointed out, this has exactly nothing to do with the EU, as is the case with most things that people complain about the EU aren't.

It is almost as if the individual member states of the EU were free to make their own laws :whistle:
I stand corrected, my post was in haste, and you are indeed correct in referring to it as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

I differ regarding the commitment of the UK to granting full recognition of those rights. The UK ratified the European Convention of Human Rights in 1951, but deliberately refused to permit to permit the submission an "individual petition" - the right to take a case to Strasbourg for a further staggering 36 years - until 1966. Even then it was almost impossible for the average citizen to challenge English law in Strasburg until 1998, an absolutely disgusting further delay of another 22 years. The Human Rights Act 1998 was finally designed to deal with this situation and allow the British people to seek redress within their own national courts.

I wholeheartedly concur with your penultimate sentence.

And, yes, each country has the capacity to enforce or interpret harmonised European law within the framework of their own national law. The UK is one of the worst offenders for gilding EU law, yet few people see it

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May 8, 2016
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I stand corrected, my post was in haste, and you are indeed correct in referring to it as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

I differ regarding the commitment of the UK to granting full recognition of those rights. The UK ratified the European Convention of Human Rights in 1951, but deliberately refused to permit to permit the submission an "individual petition" - the right to take a case to Strasbourg for a further staggering 36 years - until 1966. Even then it was almost impossible for the average citizen to challenge English law in Strasburg until 1998, an absolutely disgusting further delay of another 22 years. The Human Rights Act 1998 was finally designed to deal with this situation and allow the British people to seek redress within their own national courts.

I wholeheartedly concur with your penultimate sentence.

And, yes, each country has the capacity to enforce or interpret harmonised European law within the framework of their own national law. The UK is one of the worst offenders for gilding EU law, yet few people see it
If something dosn't add up, it is because I hit the post button by mistake and then suffered a network outage. The information I looked up is summarised here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/948143.stm
 

Kingham

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.......However I do have a bit where a kid ran out with his bike and fell over it into the road RIGHT in front of me, had I hit and killed him I would only have that as evidence showing what happened. BUT I understand that it is unregistered and therefore NOT available in my defence in Court......
I have never heard of privately owned dashcams needing to be registered before the footage can be used in defence. In fact, I'm not even aware of there being such a register, should I want to register mine.

Are you able to provide links to those requirements ?

I can assure you that if you had such privately owned footage, that showed the death of a child cyclist as you describe above; and which otherwise showed you to be driving correctly and blameless in the fatality, the footage would be both relevant and admissible in your defence.

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Kingham

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Hi All,

Just gleaned this from another forum.
Has this been discussed on here?

https://driveeurope.co.uk/2014/09/24/zeelandbrug/

It's interesting in the above link that it states....

"While dashcams are allowed in most other European countries – so far, at least – in France cameras must not obscure the view of the road and in Norway the camera screen must not distract the driver"

.... The U.K. is not mentioned as having the same two rules ?
 

gibbo57

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Since most countries are going their own way on Dashcam regulations lets hope the EU steps in and bring some order and sanity to this!
 

DanielFord

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If it proves a not guilty they lose it.. OR am i being cynical
You probably are, but it is a scenario. One would hope that if a not guilty was proved, that the case would then be dropped and the footage returned. I'm sure in 99% of cases that would happen.

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Mar 16, 2016
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What, like:

The introduction of Human Rights?
Meaningful consumer protection (including air travel)?
The sex offender's register?
The right to refuse to provide information that leads to your prosecution?
The end of double taxation?
An end to currency restrictions?
Freedom of Information?
Data Protection?

They're not all bad, and most of those are a significant improvement on what we previously had

Let's never allow the facts to obscure a good rant at the EU, even though this has absolutely nothing to

Where did you get that from? Because as of last year just six out of the 28 member nations have sex offenders registers.
A lot of EU countries even look on a sex offenders register as unlawful and contrary to the, yes you've guessed it, "European Convention on Human Rights".
When UK introduced the Violent and Sex offenders register in 2003 it had NOTHING to do with the EUssr!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/rapists-free-travel-across-continent-6307703

As for the other examples you give, they too are dubious, one example being double taxation, UK has had a long history of International treaties regarding double taxation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/tax-treaties

But to get back on track. Dashcams do not have to be registered anywhere in UK.

Pete
 
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OK so this thread was about the legality of dash cams - has any Funster member been stopped by the the long arm of the law anywhere regarding the use of one? Has any one here been gassed ? (Daily Mail readers are exempt from this question). Do I need an A frame in Europe even though I dont tow a car?

Yes you can tell I've got today off work. :xThumb:

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As I understand it, some dashcams are a distraction for the driver in that they display a picture of the road ahead when in use and some drivers become distracted when looking at dashcam footage whilst driving. My dashcam which is a high end model sits in front of the rear view mirror and records onto a memory card. No distraction what-so-ever.
 

DanielFord

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I went on a hunt for actual legislation regarding the use of dashcams, rather than chatter on forums and psuedo news sites.
I did find that it is illegal to use one in Austria, and the fines quoted are correct. Apparently the same privacy laws are the reason that there aren't any Google Street View images from Austria!
Also, I found that they aren't allowed in Luxembourg. Apparently if you are using one, and an incident occurs. Even if the footage proves your innocence, it will be deemed inadmissible in court due to the camera being illegal! Not sure of the logic behind that one, but there you go. :D
Since I was totally unaware of these restrictions, I have driven through both of these countries with the camera running.
 

Lot lover

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Since I was totally unaware of these restrictions, I have driven through both of these countries with the camera running.

Always remember the old rule "Ignorance is no excuse for not knowing"

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Lot lover

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Also, I found that they aren't allowed in Luxembourg. Apparently if you are using one, and an incident occurs. Even if the footage proves your innocence, it will be deemed inadmissible in court due to the camera being illegal! Not sure of the logic behind that one, but there you go.

In American crime progs this is called "fruit from the poison(ed) tree"
 

JJ

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Just ONE MORE reason to be out of the EU?. There is more navel gazing done in Brussels that any where else in the world, maybe they dont want to run the risk of being caught out?

Oh dear...

JJ :cool:

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Geo

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Do you think A frame Cameras will be OK in Spain
 
May 8, 2016
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Where did you get that from? Because as of last year just six out of the 28 member nations have sex offenders registers.
A lot of EU countries even look on a sex offenders register as unlawful and contrary to the, yes you've guessed it, "European Convention on Human Rights".
When UK introduced the Violent and Sex offenders register in 2003 it had NOTHING to do with the EUssr!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/rapists-free-travel-across-continent-6307703

As for the other examples you give, they too are dubious, one example being double taxation, UK has had a long history of International treaties regarding double taxation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/tax-treaties

But to get back on track. Dashcams do not have to be registered anywhere in UK.

Pete


If you are referring to the UK specific Violent and Sex Offender Register (ViSOR) it is a database of records of those prosecuted in the UK and required to register with the police under the Sexual Offences Act 2003. I emphasise the word database, which is merely a record, as distinct from the legislation per se.

As you clearly wish to argue the point, the Resolution of the European Parliament of 11 April 2000 specified legislative action against the sexual exploitation of children and child pornography, including common definitions, charges and penalties way beyond the very limited existing protection of children in the UK. It is a matter of record that the UK Act (Sexual Offences Act) was passed on 20th November 2003, based on the EU Council Framework Decision no 2004/68/JHA proposed 12 months earlier than the English Act and passed 22 December 2003 detailing the combating of the sexual exploitation of children and child pornography

The fact that the majority of countries (not just in the EU) have not yet adopted the use of an offender register is an interesting point. Those in the EU are legally committed to harmonisation of EU law, and are compelled to follow the example set by more civilised member states. Those outside of the EU are not under the same pressure to comply. Ergo, it follows that existence of the EU has been instrumental in improving the legal protection extending to victims of these odious crimes.

As to your reference to the imposition of human rights legislation, I think you will that it was the UK Supreme Court and NOT the EU who decided in 2010 that that indefinite notification requirements contained in section 82(1) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 were a breach of individual human rights

Turning to the issue of double taxation, I think you will find that the treaties relating to that issue were massively reinforced pretty much the moment the EU was born and took on the IMF over the issue. Much the same for extradition and law enforcement, as I'm sure anyone who remembers the old Costa del Crime epithet enjoyed by Spain.

As I stated, and I make no apologies for repeating, UK membership of the EU has been anything but as one sided as the gutter press would have you believe and the mindless bigots who try to justify their xenophobic rejection of everything that is not British will shout.

Back on topic:-

Dashcams are perfectly legal. As with any supposed evidence, the recordings can only be used in a legal context if properly disclosed as evidence in the usual manner, and opportunity provided to forensically challenge any recordings. There is no requirement for "registration" of cameras
 
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PeteH

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I can think of ONLY one good thing about any part of Europe. And that is the "Winter SUN". That which itself is not totally predictable! Either.

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May 8, 2016
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I can think of ONLY one good thing about any part of Europe. And that is the "Winter SUN". That which itself is not totally predictable! Either.
Not the food, the sights on the beaches, the exotic places, the memories of a happy holiday, drinking affordably, good companionship, affordable dentistry, a lower cost of living, a slower pace of life, nights of laughter spent with friends on the patio, swimming at Christmas, teaching the locals English in return for them teaching you their language, lower crime rates, racial harmony, less aggression and ironically fewer foreigners?

Phew. Seems I don't need glasses after all :xgrin:
 
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If you are referring to the UK specific Violent and Sex Offender Register (ViSOR) it is a database of records of those prosecuted in the UK and required to register with the police under the Sexual Offences Act 2003. I emphasise the word database, which is merely a record, as distinct from the legislation per se.

As you clearly wish to argue the point, the Resolution of the European Parliament of 11 April 2000 specified legislative action against the sexual exploitation of children and child pornography, including common definitions, charges and penalties way beyond the very limited existing protection of children in the UK. It is a matter of record that the UK Act (Sexual Offences Act) was passed on 20th November 2003, based on the EU Council Framework Decision no 2004/68/JHA proposed 12 months earlier than the English Act and passed 22 December 2003 detailing the combating of the sexual exploitation of children and child pornography

That's all very well, however your original post mentioned the EU giving us the likes of " The sex offenders register" and i'm pointing out that the UK established such a register back in 1997 way before all those EU resolutions and acts you've mentioned above.

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/the-sex-offenders-register/

Turning to the issue of double taxation, I think you will find that the treaties relating to that issue were massively reinforced pretty much the moment the EU was born and took on the IMF over the issue.

It would appear that the EU lets individual countries sort themselves out on this matter. There is no general EU measure to eliminate double taxation. Most EU countries have bilateral tax treaties in place with each other to relieve double taxation when it occurs.

Back on Subject.....

When it comes to the LED screen of a suction-mounted cam. The law actually says that, if the screen is on at any time during a journey and the driver can see it, then this is another serious offence.

http://www.theroadtrafficlawyer.com/dash-cameras-improper-placement-can-put-risk/

Pete
 
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Shrugs shoulders. I did mention the sex offenders register, and yes, the introduction of the legislation behind that throughout Europe is now mandated.

The fact that we were amongst (if not) the first to implement it is indeed to our credit, but the concept was actually derived under the "Megans Law" campaign in the USA and the requirement is as I stated, down to the EU. But it was not the EU who ruled against it with regard to Human Rights obligations, it was the UK Supreme Court.

Regarding dashcams, the placing of them and the visibility of the LCD display could indeed constitute an offence. Certainly the two I use on vehicles both turn off the display as a matter of course, unless the "replay" button is pushed. Of course the same could arguably apply to a GPS system, which is more a navigation aid

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PeteH

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Back on Subject.....

When it comes to the LED screen of a suction-mounted cam. The law actually says that, if the screen is on at any time during a journey and the driver can see it, then this is another serious offence.

But that was always the case, and is why it is NOT allowed to have a DVD type player either in the drivers field of vision. Mine will actually swivel so the only the passenger can see it. but is normally Permanently closed. BTW. It is not that long ago that I saw a Latvian Truck driver watching a @14"ish T-V in a traffic queue on the M1.

Of course the same could arguably apply to a GPS system, which is more a navigation aid

Which is normally also aided by voice directions, and is Less of an issue than trying to read a map resting on the steering wheel! (yes I have seen it done!). I doubt seriously that any prosecution would be made?. Though with the "common-sense" of the current crop of "Traffic Officers" I would not stake my existence on that!

Now Smokers??. HOT ash in the crotch, would be a real distraction!
 
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Geo

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ok:xblush:

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DanielFord

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Now Smokers??. HOT ash in the crotch, would be a real distraction!
More than you can possibly imagine! My Capri had many fag burns in the drivers seat by the time I sold it, and many singed testicle incidents associated with said fag burns :rofl:
 

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