Council tax on motorhomes (1 Viewer)

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Grath

It goes on list price, when I was discussing this with "bob" he mentioned something about the rate going down after 5 years, damned if I can remember exactly how, I am sure it was 25% but can't remember if it was off the list price to bring it down a band or 25% off the final charge. (final charge makes more sense)

I cannot see how they can justify it, if you pay in Telford, but dump all your rubbish elsewhere when on a trip...... I would imagine tourist locations will have something to say about how the funds are divvied up

lugnutt,

The criminal element do not have proper registration or addresses, so I would guess not, True Gypsies will probably not have to pay as they usually are settled or have caravans, never yet seen a true Romany with a motorhome

 

[justme AKA Grath]

Hi George,
The different councils would probably have reciprocal agreements similar to road tax for foreign vehicles

 

[justme AKA Grath]

Just thought George.
I hope this information has not come from your buddies that have the disinformation thread!

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[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Grath

I hope this information has not come from your buddies that have the disinformation thread!

If it is they have now infiltrated local goverment dept in Kent just to have a laugh?

 

[justme AKA Grath]

I can't really see it happening as soon the road tax will be jumping up to everest (or thereabout)
The dealers and the manufacturers would lobby the government, otherwise sales would drop and unemployment rise again

 

[GJH]

Obviously lots of speculation on this thread. Is it true or is it just some wazzock winding up George and his mate?

Pointless continuing with uninformed speculation so I've sent a Freedom of Information request to the Communities and Local Government Department asking if there are any proposals (draft, consultative or otherwise) for introducing council tax charges on motorhomes.

I'll post the reply when it arrives.

Graham

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[kenj]

They were talking about doing the same thing to narrow boat owners last year even if you were always on the move,never heard the outcome of that.
Ken

 

[justme AKA Grath]

I for one dont think it will ever happen!
Total wind up ( dept of missinformation) or similar
Sorry George but think you have been had, (but as you have said, you were sceptical)
You have only reported what you had heard!
(just like I had in the past)
Just have to wait and see

 

[GJH]

Just received a reply from the Department for Communities and Local Government:
"Thank you for your e-mail about motorhomes. The government has no plans to change the council tax system."

So, it turns out that whoever produced the document which George saw is a WOTFO (Wazzock Of The First Order)

Graham

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[American Dream]

They were talking about doing the same thing to narrow boat owners last year even if you were always on the move,never heard the outcome of that.
Ken

I think that was all water under the bridge.

 

[Loathecliff]

"Thank you for your e-mail about motorhomes. The government has no plans to change the council tax system."

No indeed they haven't any plans for 'change', but there are always plans for 'extending'.
I retired from local government 9 years ago. Future policy discussions back then had this idea on hold until such time as road policing by camera was well established.
I am afraid it is a distinct possibility the moment it becomes cheap to apply.
The trifling £44 start band is also way out of date by now.
The good news is that it is at least two years away, & is more likely to only creep in attached to road pricing.
However, the bit that annoyed me was the idea that there would be a fixed minimum charge so that those who had the temerity to long stay abroad would still pay in the UK!
I was glad to leave local govt. The meddling in folks lives had become too much for me. The young go-getting suits that had an 'ology but no morality had completely taken over. Experience & moderation seems to count for nothing.
So I guess we, or rather, you (I no longer live in GB), should be prepared for anything.
As to whether this is a spoof, I don't know, but who would have thought that private pensions would be raided by central govt. & that they would get away with it?
That was obscene, & an extra tax on motorhomes is a trivial alongside it, is it not?

 

[GJH]

I retired from local government 18 months ago Loathecliff and I recognise the problems you mention. In latter years I was responsible for implementing regulatory legislation like Data Protection & Freedom of Information.

I lost count of the number of fights I had trying to make sure people's rights were respected. Some chief officers were bad enough but the private sector "partners" included a number of people who were just there to parasitise the system and they were the worst.

However, I would expect "change" to include "extending". If anyone is sceptical they could always send in their own FoI request. The e-mail address is <COUNCIL.TAX@odpm.gsi.gov.uk>.

Graham

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[American Dream]

Does this mean in future, all new RV's/Motorhomes will be sold with a Council Tax Band/Rating? I personally think this would be totally unworkable but when has this stopped them from trying?

Diversifying slightly, how are the latest Vehicle Excise Duty changes going to affect the sale and use of larger RV's?

Aren't they just trying to price them off the roads?

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi

Could it be that because this is only VOSA being asked to look at the feasability of "council taxing" motorhomes and that because the white paper has not been produced yet they can claim no plans to change ( in a way it's true )

Not convinced either way yet, sounds a ludicrous idea, but also plausable

 

[GJH]

Hi

Could it be that because this is only VOSA being asked to look at the feasability of "council taxing" motorhomes and that because the white paper has not been produced yet they can claim no plans to change ( in a way it's true )

Not convinced either way yet, sounds a ludicrous idea, but also plausable

Why not send an FoI request to VOSA and ask them? Contact page is Link Removed.

Graham

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[pappajohn]

Hi Ken

If you have a motorhome then to stay legal you must get mail, not hard to catch up with you there.

With regard to your first hand experience, there must be some error, paying tax on one property does NOT exempt you from paying it on the second, here is a quote from Advice guide on council tax

"Furnished second or holiday homes in England and Scotland will be liable for council tax but will have a 10% to 50% discount because no one lives there on a permanent basis."
I am inclined to think this is a myth too, but not absolutely certain.

im in total agreement george. we have a holiday cottage in scotland and we pay council tax at 90% for the 2/3 weeks a year(some years not at all) we use it. we tried to get it reduced but you know what councils are like, just threatened court action if we didn't pay. want to buy a holiday cottage. ???????
i also have an unoccupied flat (my home before i married) which also attracts 90% tax. if it was unfurnished i would pay 100% according to my local council.if ,on the other hand, i live there alone i pay 75%. work that one out. want to buy a flat. ?????

john.

 

[GJH]

<snip>you know what councils are like, just threatened court action if we didn't pay. want to buy a holiday cottage. ???????
<snip>if it was unfurnished i would pay 100% according to my local council.if ,on the other hand, i live there alone i pay 75%. work that one out. want to buy a flat. ?????.

Whether the rules are right or wrong John they have been basically the same since council tax was introduced 15 years ago. The rules are national and not much that individual councils can do about them.

Council tax is a property tax - so people who own more than one property pay more tax. Everyone has the opportunity to dispose of the "extra" properties if they wish. If you have been advised differently then I would recommend that you have a serious talk with your advisers.

Graham

 

[Loathecliff]

Well that's a thread killer of a post GJH

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[GJH]

Well that's a thread killer of a post GJH

Dunno why, only stating facts

I would hope that my previous post, with the answer to my FoI query, would have been more of a thread killer because it states the government's position and shows up the document which was the cause of the thread to be the work of a WOTFO

Graham

 

[Loathecliff]

Apols GJH, I should have been more specific.:Blush:

It was your:- "......... If you have been advised differently then I would recommend that you have a serious talk with your advisers." - that did it .... A poignant reminder of the mindset I used to work with/around/loathe....... A world of non-productive, meddling, ego & empty mission-statement driven, superannuated crats.

My problem, I know

Rant over


for today

& what was that? - a multiple property owner complaining about his lot when there are good folk who now can't afford a roof over their heads in the land of their birth???
No, surely not. I must have imagined it.



Have fun, take risks -- unless you can't afford to pay later

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Graham

Asking if they had any plans, was maybe not the right question, all the email i saw shows is that they are looking into possibilities, so they could rightly say "we Have no plans" it doesnt say they are not thinking about it or putting a white paper together if you see what I mean.

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[GJH]

Apols GJH, I should have been more specific.:Blush:

It was your:- "......... If you have been advised differently then I would recommend that you have a serious talk with your advisers." - that did it .... A poignant reminder of the mindset I used to work with/around/loathe....... A world of non-productive, meddling, ego & empty mission-statement driven, superannuated crats.

Reminds me of a definition someone sent me recently: Testiculating - waving ones arms about whilst talking b*ll*cks.
My reply was a definition of a consultant: One who testiculates whilst using Powerpoint

Graham

 

[GJH]

Hi Graham

Asking if they had any plans, was maybe not the right question, all the email i saw shows is that they are looking into possibilities, so they could rightly say "we Have no plans" it doesnt say they are not thinking about it or putting a white paper together if you see what I mean.

Go on then George, your turn - the e-mail address is <COUNCIL.TAX@odpm.gsi.gov.uk>.

Graham

 

[pappajohn]

Council tax is a property tax - so people who own more than one property pay more tax. Everyone has the opportunity to dispose of the "extra" properties if they wish. If you have been advised differently then I would recommend that you have a serious talk with your advisers.

Graham

hi graham,
this is NOT an argument in the making.
Ok, the hol cottage is a luxury but as for the flat. it's been a drain on my finances for the last 5yrs(mortgage, insurance, mantainance fees ect) through no fault of my own. if i sell at a low affordable price i get the inland robbery and the money laundering police at my door demanding to know why i sold so cheap. as loathecliff said, folks cant afford to buy a home, but we all like profit. over the 5 yrs its been "on the market" i've reduced the asking price by £40,000 to get a sale(£6,000 more than i paid for it 7 yrs ago).
like everything else in this country, if someone will pay the price then someone will sell for that price hence up go prices. just look at the price difference of cars,beer,fags ect here and on the continent.
i have now run out of drivell and i'm off for a beer on my "profit" from the sale of my flat :thumb: before the government lower the threshold and decide to tax me on that as well.:Angry:

john.

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[GJH]

Hello John,

Cartainly no argument.
I can sympathise with the fact that you haven't been able to sell your flat. That, though, is a different point from the fact that there is a council tax liability on it.

Your initial post seemed to be criticising the local authorities involved for the fact that you had to pay CT on all three properties and my reply was pointing out that the councils have no option but to do so.

Graham

 

[moandick]

Council Tax

A very interesting thread which I would like to add to.

What would be the situation if I had bought my 36ft RV on HP?

The HP company still owns the RV until such time as I have paid for it in full so would they be liable for a part of the proposed Council Tax?

Or would it be deemed to be the same as a mortgage where I would be considered as the owner and therefore the sole payer of Council Tax?:Angry:

And what would be the case if my wife bought it (through disability) on the MOBILITY Scheme?:Sad:

As to paying Council Tax when on the move - just remember that HM Forces pay Council Tax even if they are off travelling all over the World. I don't know how it works - just that it does!:Angry:

Dick

 

[moandick]

Council

AAhh Hah - fear not...........

I have rattled out a message on the jungle drums and RVDA man is now on the case!!!!!!!!!!:thumb::shout:


(The Recreational Vehicle Dealers Association, for the un-informed)

Dick

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[ukrv]

I have rattled out a message on the jungle drums and RVDA man is now on the case!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Dick, can't resist......

While you're at it, see of they have finally got that "tolerance" letter yet ?

:beer:

Paul

 

[moandick]

Tolerances

Hi Paul - I knew the peace of the last couple of weeks was too good to be true - so here is some more coal for your fire........

If you drive on the motorway you are limited to 70mph but you know that the police are going to give you a certain tolerance, generally accepted to be a 'few' mph.
BUT nobody is prepared to put that in writing because if they did The Great British Public would accept that tolerance as the norm and it would become the speed limit to which everybody would drive at. Then they would expect a 'few' mph on top of the 'few' mph to overcome equipment mistakes etc., etc., etc.

In my humble opinion the Authorities, whoever they may be, will not publsh the 'tolerance' letter for exactly the same reason. If they say they will accept 2.55metres wide plus a 10% tolerance then everybody will start to import vehicles at 2.80metres wide as the norm etc., etc., etc
So the tolerance is left to your own personal choice - you know very well the limit is set at 2.55 metres wide and if you care to exceed that by a nonsensical amount, then you carry the can, and rightly so in my opinion, if you try to exceed the limit.

Exceed the limit by a 'sensible' amount, say a few millimetres, then that is common sense and can be apportioned to a hand lay-up of the fibre-glass etc., etc., etc and your vehicle will be accepted.

Meantime a database is being built of all American RV's that will come into effect in two years time - when ALL RV imports (Dealer or private) will be subject to the SVA inspection. That should be a European Directive but will have an individual National veto - so the Belgians can stick with their 100 inch format and the French can refuse to register RV's, or is it VR's in their case being as they insist on spelling everything backwards, etc., etc., etc.

Ideas also currently being studied are:

Drivers hours - limiting Large vehicle drivers to a maximum of 8 hours driving in any 24 hours. How do the authorities police that?.........

Tachographs..............

Self-regulating Caravan Parks - where the owners are required to prove that nobody stays longer than 28 days etc., etc., etc.

If we have to pay Council Tax, does that mean we can then stay as long as we like on any particular site?...........

You know as well as me the anomalies involved in our lifestyle - and the problems that would be incurred in trying to solve them - and the amount of extra beaurocrats that would be required to police and record them - thus requiring extra taxes etc., etc., etc.

Enough for one response:Blush:

Dick

 

[ukrv]

Dick

I am looking forward to the RVDA making a statement along the lines of what you've stated above re the tolerence (but I won't hold my breath).

They really will be a laughing stock after all their hype - after all, haven't they been promising that letter for months now (and a lot more things before then) ?

If the DVLA do refuse to issue the letter then they are just turning a blind eye to the situation and giving the RV owner the opportunity of being the first to be taken to court by VOSA etc.

By allowing the importer to enter the dimensions of vehicles the DVLA know to be over width/length is asking for trouble. God help the poor sods who buy those RVs.

So, what should a responsible importer do - should they enter 2.56m, 2.57m, 2.58m - and hope it falls within the mystical unknown tolerence?. I guess they will play it safe and just enter 2.55m (legal 100.4") for everything.

I wonder what Eric at Itchyfeet is entering for the 101" wide (plus awnings) Revolutions

Remember when I said I had a letter from Fleetwood confirming the width of my RV to be OK - and Les (the RVDA Press Person) laughed it off saying I won't need it due to the RVDAs efforts in securing the tolerence.

Well, I'm sure glad I kept the letter as it gives me far more protection than the ramblings of the RVDA ever will.

Paul

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