Council Tax and Full Timers

Discussion in 'Full Timers' started by scotjimland, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Caravan Times:

    While we were on a CL we were sent a council tax bill .. addressed to
    The Occupier,
    The Motrohome,
    CL Address :RollEyes:..

    When we went to see about it we advised that if we had no other address where we paid rates we were liable for rates where we lived whether it was a motorhome or not, it came under the same rules as a caravan, static or not ..

    We contested this and told them we were moving soon to a rented house. In the end they canceled the bill, but it did cause a lot of stress for both us and the cl owners.

    Full timers .. be aware that you may get 'shopped' if you stay more than 28 days, keep moving and keep a low profile.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010
  2. PenelopePitstop

    PenelopePitstop Funster Life Member

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    Surely if you're paying site fees the site owner should have taken his council / business tax into consideration when setting site fees? Therefore you pay your part of the tax in your fees? Is that too simple???
     
  3. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    I can only tell what we were told.. if we had no home address where we paid rates we were liable to pay them where we 'lived'

    Graham can probably clarify .. ?
     
  4. Munchie

    Munchie Funster Life Member

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    Don;t work like that Marie as Jim says if it is your ONLY residence then you have to pay council tax at the lowest rate
     
  5. weejocky

    weejocky Funster

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    Itinerant Full Timers should pay something but it would be hard to nail them down. If you are static, then you should pay like everyone else. Fulltimers won't get much for their money, but neither do house dwellers, why should they get away without paying, why did jimscotland not want to pay?
     
  6. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    are you asking me or the forum ?

    I posted for information, not to justify what I did or didn't want to do.
     
  7. Munchie

    Munchie Funster Life Member

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    Business rates are paid by the site owner and you pay through the site fees. It is just a way of the robbing councils being paid twice. :Angry:
     
  8. weejocky

    weejocky Funster

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    Yes all bussineses with property have to pay business rates. They are different from domestic rates and have nothing to do with them so it cannot be a charge twice. Some full timers might try to get away with it or appeal, but those fulltimers would want the local police or fire service to attend if there were an emergncy. A proportion of the tax goes to these organisations, but probably only after tea, cakes and comfy chairs and cast iron inflation proof pensions for council staff are paid for. But just because you choose to live in a van shouldn't mean you get away with it.
     
  9. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    This post just shows how someone can thrash between the extremes of being correct and total b*ll*cks in the same post.

    Yes, National Non-Domestic Rates are separate from the Council Tax. NNDR is a central tax, set by Westminster, collected by local authorities and passed straight to Westminster. CT (within the limits allowed by Westminster) is set, collected and spent locally.

    The NNDR element for a site (which the site owner will collect through fees like any other business expense) will cover only those who do not reside permanently on the site. Any permanent residents will be liable for CT just like those of us who live in normal buildings.

    To actually make a statement like that which I have highlighted in red, however, is nothing more than ignorant defamation. There are good and bad in any walk of life but, speaking personally, I am disgusted that anyone should come onto this forum and make such an ignorant blanket statement. I worked damned hard throughout my local government career, earned my pension as much as anyone in any else, and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise.

    Graham
     
  10. jhorsf

    jhorsf Read Only Funster

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    I just knew that GJH would explain the error of weejockey"s post:BigGrin:
     
  11. grumps147

    grumps147 Funster

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    One of the problems with the complete tax system in the UK is you never know what element of tax you pay in what area gets spent on that area. Does all vehicle excise duty, fuel excise duty and VAT from vehicles go on roads?? I dont think thats how it works.
    Same for local council taxes, they are heavily subsidised from central government, probably from your vehicle taxes.
    As an element of any site fee should take account of the cost of basic council services such as waste disposal, and water to the water company and so on and so forth, then are you not being charged twice if you are asked to pay council tax?
    Two issues here. First i personally believe everyone should pay their share - don't get me going about the super rich ability to avoid tax. For some things this cannot be based on actual use, as sometimes you may not make any use, but then suddenly you start maxing out use of some particular service. Secondly, there has to be an element of fareness. What is being proposed by a council tax charge may comply with the rules, but in the case of full timers may not be fare PROVIDING the full timer is paying via site fees.
    It all about fareness jim, and though this is not fare I think there are too few people concerned to get a change.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  12. jhorsf

    jhorsf Read Only Funster

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    I would LOVE to be taxed just the twice on everything:Laughing:
     
  13. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    No, in the circumstances of the site in the OP, people are not being asked to pay twice - at least not by the local council or central government.

    The site will have been assessed for NNDR (Business Rates) on the basis of occupiers not being full time. That will not include amounts payable for items such as domestic refuse collection because there are separate arrangements for business waste, which must be transported to and disposed of at a licensed commercial waste site. Businesses can deliver the waste themselves or have it collected (for a fee) by either the local council or a licensed waste collection company.

    Water and sewerage charges are completely separate from both CT and NNDR and have been for many years so they don't come into it.

    The full time occupiers in the Throney Bay Park case are of a similar status to residents of blocks of private flats where the owners of the blocks are assessed for business rates on the common areas of the building (for which they make a maintenance charge) and the individual occupiers pay CT on their flats.

    If any element of the business rates payable by the Throney Bay Park site owners is being paid by the full time residents then that is only because that element is being passed on by the site owners. That is a matter between the residents and the site owners and nothing to do with the council.

    Graham
     
  14. weejocky

    weejocky Funster

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    Oh I'm sorry, I did not mean to hurt your feelings. But I think your view is ignorant and one sided. You take my light comment about tea and cake and launch an attack on me. I am sure you did earn your pension, well done GJ what were you, a "Diversity Officer" they earn about 46k a year in tea and cake. Or maybe you were an "Climate Control Officer" earning more:Doh: :RollEyes: :Smile:
    My comment illustrated that a proportion of our council tax goes to essential services, (which fulltimers should pay for) and plenty goes on dubious stuff like cast iron pensions and stupid jobs like I outlined above, that is the truth I am not being ignorant or trying to defame anyone. Nor was I being rude. but you started it. :moon:
     
  15. madbluemad

    madbluemad

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    In the past, whilst I have been working way from home I have hired and lived in a Caravan. The rental fees do not include council tax and the only way to avoid it is to move somwhere else every now and again.

    And by the way, I was also paying council tax on my home property.

    Jim
    :Smile:
     
  16. Dodgey

    Dodgey Funster

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    Jim, Graham, excellent post and very interesting as I to would, and did:thumb:, assume part of any payment to a campsite would have covered any council tax liability, information is good and thanks again:thumb:
     
  17. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    CAB Guidance on council tax liability

    Properties exempt from council tax

    Some property is exempt from council tax altogether. It may be exempt for only a short period, for example, six months, or indefinitely.

    Properties which may be exempt include:

    * property which is empty. This means it has to be unoccupied. The property also has to be substantially unfurnished. The exemption applies for a maximum of six months and the property has to be vacant for the whole of this period (although up to six weeks of occupation during the period is allowed)
    * property which is vacant because it needs major repairs or alterations to make it habitable. The exemption applies for a maximum of 12 months whether the work is actually finished or not by then
    * condemned property
    * property which has been legally re-possessed by a mortgage lender
    * property unoccupied because the person who lived there now lives elsewhere because they need to be cared for, for example, in hospital, in a care home or with relatives
    * property which is unoccupied because the person who lived there has gone to care for someone else
    * any property that only students or Foreign Language Assistants on the official British Council programme live in. This may be a hall of residence, or a house
    * a caravan or boat which is used as a main residence but which is unoccupied. This exemption lasts for up to six months. A holiday caravan or boat is exempt if it's on a property where council tax is paid
    * a property where all the people who live in it are aged under 18
    * property which is occupied only by people with severe mental impairment
    * a self-contained ‘granny flat’ where the person who lives in it is a dependent relative of the owner of the main property.

    If you think that your property should be exempt, you should consult an experienced adviser, for example, at a Citizens Advice Bureau. To search for details of your nearest CAB, including those that can give advice by email, click on (New window) nearest CAB.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Gypsy and Traveller FAQs
     
  18. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    World war III as usual

    I now know why I am posting less... whatever one says is blown up or attacked.

    Bob:Angry:
     
  19. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    A caravan on a site for 12 months occupation, like a house, or infact the owners/wardens house, is charged council tax separately from the sites business rates. The council tax may be collected by the site owner in with the rent and then passed on by them to the local authority, or be charged separately by the council to each occupier.

    A caravan occupied for up to 11 months of the year although left on site unoccupied for the other month/s is not charged council tax as a second home.

    Touring Caravans and RV/Motorhomes pay a fee to park on the site. This fee covers all services and charges, unless a meter is fitted for electricity.

    John
     
  20. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Absolutely correct , but full timing isn't the same as going on holiday.

    When I questioned the bill I was told that as I lived full time in a 'caravan' with no home address where I payed council tax I was classed as a traveler and if staying on a site was liable for council tax....

    The real problem is that full timing isn't recognised as a legitimate way of life.. with no fixed abode you come against all sorts of problems which only come to light after a couple of years .. Without a permanent residence you are effectively living on the fringes of the law...
     
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