Connecting an EHU Cable (2 Viewers)

[The Old Man]

Is there a correct way to do this?

Connect the van end first.

Or the supply end first?

My simple thoughts were to connect the van end first because if you connect the supply end first you are walking around with a 'live' cable in your hands.

 

[Don Quixote]

Of course you can do it your way if you wish but please don't advise new comers to do it that way round. As shown on previous posts, unlikely perhaps, but it could be dangerous.

I'm NOT ADVISING anyone my post clearly states "always done it that way" it DOES not say "I advise you or do it my way"..........................
Most MH owners do not even know they have a RCBO (or what it does) and it does NOT matter which way you do it as the MH is protected by the RCBO

 

[Old Soldier]

I'm NOT ADVISING anyone my post clearly states "always done it that way" it DOES not say "I advise you or do it my way"..........................
Most MH owners do not even know they have a RCBO (or what it does) and it does NOT matter which way you do it as the MH is protected by the RCBO

The Motorhome may be protected but you are not as you stand outside in wet grass connecting the cable. The OP asked for advice so if you are not advising then don't post information, against the good advice of most of us, that could be dangerous. Anyway, as this is turning into a normal argumentative thread I can't be doing with it. I, and others have said their bit and no doubt the OP will make his own decision.

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[Don Quixote]

The Motorhome may be protected but you are not as you stand outside in wet grass connecting the cable. The OP asked for advice so if you are not advising then don't post information, against the good advice of most of us, that could be dangerous. Anyway, as this is turning into a normal argumentative thread I can't be doing with it. I, and others have said their bit and no doubt the OP will make his own decision.

Noted.

 

[Techno]

The hook up is either rcd or rcbo protected. very few continental vans have an rcd inside as standard and many UK did not. My Rapido certainly was manufactured with a double pole switch only and completely reliant on the hook up protection.
So to say your are not protected in wet grass outside the van is incorrect.

And if you are using a lawnmower anywhere it should be plugged into an RCD protected outlet or have one inline.

 

[Rapido925M]

A typical domestic extension

Another UNWIND FULLY

I'm not disputing that it is ADVISED in umpteen situations, but I used to get a 6page COSHH document when I ordered 1kg of that dangerous NaCl stuff!

What I'm asking for are FIGURES supporting the advice. I think 25m of 2.5mm wire should have a resistance of 0.02ohm (but I could be misinterpreting my values). Passing 16A through this would lead to a power drop spread along the length of the wire in the region of 5W ie 0.2W per metre. Please persuade me that this will lead to significant heating of my cable, especially if it is tightly coiled, and I will understand why the advice exists.

Alternatively, quote certifiable examples where a cable has melted, burst into flames or produced such a large power drop to the MH/caravan that the performance of electrical items were severely affected.

I'm not advocating using coiled cables: I'm ONLY asking for justification of the advice - Gordon

PS for those who forget their chemistry, NaCl is common salt - the stuff you put on fish 'n chips.

PPS the advice never mentioned high blood pressure.

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[scotjimland]

I'm ONLY asking for justification of the advice - Gordon

Broken Link Removed

 

[DBK]

The hook up is either rcd or rcbo protected. very few continental vans have an rcd inside as standard and many UK did not. My Rapido certainly was manufactured with a double pole switch only and completely reliant on the hook up protection.
So to say your are not protected in wet grass outside the van is incorrect.

And if you are using a lawnmower anywhere it should be plugged into an RCD protected outlet or have one inline.

You trust campsite EHUs to be protected? There are some without even a functioning earth.

 

[Rapido925M]

Broken Link Removed

Perhaps there is something wrong with the link? All I get is lots of pictures of reels - Gordon

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[sdc77]

Can't believe I'm still alive

Ahh well at least I have my shiny new hook up cable (that complied with all relevant legislation and guidelines)

 

[DBK]

Don't tell the Red Arrows but they've forgotten to uncoil their EHU cables!

 

[scotjimland]

Perhaps there is something wrong with the link? All I get is lots of pictures of reels - Gordon

you asked for justification.. did you not see the pictures of reels that had caught fire ???

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[The Old Man]

I'm not disputing that it is ADVISED in umpteen situations, but I used to get a 6page COSHH document when I ordered 1kg of that dangerous NaCl stuff!

What I'm asking for are FIGURES supporting the advice. I think 25m of 2.5mm wire should have a resistance of 0.02ohm (but I could be misinterpreting my values). Passing 16A through this would lead to a power drop spread along the length of the wire in the region of 5W ie 0.2W per metre. Please persuade me that this will lead to significant heating of my cable, especially if it is tightly coiled, and I will understand why the advice exists.

Alternatively, quote certifiable examples where a cable has melted, burst into flames or produced such a large power drop to the MH/caravan that the performance of electrical items were severely affected.

I'm not advocating using coiled cables: I'm ONLY asking for justification of the advice - Gordon

PS for those who forget their chemistry, NaCl is common salt - the stuff you put on fish 'n chips.

PPS the advice never mentioned high blood pressure.

I'm not disputing that it is ADVISED in umpteen situations, but I used to get a 6page COSHH document when I ordered 1kg of that dangerous NaCl stuff!

What I'm asking for are FIGURES supporting the advice. I think 25m of 2.5mm wire should have a resistance of 0.02ohm (but I could be misinterpreting my values). Passing 16A through this would lead to a power drop spread along the length of the wire in the region of 5W ie 0.2W per metre. Please persuade me that this will lead to significant heating of my cable, especially if it is tightly coiled, and I will understand why the advice exists.

Alternatively, quote certifiable examples where a cable has melted, burst into flames or produced such a large power drop to the MH/caravan that the performance of electrical items were severely affected.

I'm not advocating using coiled cables: I'm ONLY asking for justification of the advice - Gordon

PS for those who forget their chemistry, NaCl is common salt - the stuff you put on fish 'n chips.

PPS the advice never mentioned high blood pressure.

Now that is a two whisky post!

 

[Gizmouk]

The Motorhome may be protected but you are not as you stand outside in wet grass connecting the cable. The OP asked for advice so if you are not advising then don't post information, against the good advice of most of us, that could be dangerous. Anyway, as this is turning into a normal argumentative thread I can't be doing with it. I, and others have said their bit and no doubt the OP will make his own decision.

There's a section in the electrical regs specifically for campsites. All EHU have to be protected by RCD. There is no danger of shock - at most, it'll feel like a pin prick.
Camp sites also have to be "Test / Inspected" at least once every 12 months. That includes testing RCDs for tripping current and speed.

 

[mustaphapint]

I read this in several magazines and it sounds like good sense: a wire will warm up when it has a current passing through it and as it warms up its resistance will increase, thus limiting its current carrying ability. Coils of wire in close proximity to each other will result in mutual warming, further decreasing the current-carrying ability and possibly generating sufficient heat to produce spontaneous combustion.

BUT does it really happen? Can anyone offer values for resistance of 25m of copper cable, temperature & resistance rise created by 16A current?

My EHU cable must be over 10y old and sits outside in all weathers. It is not coiled carefully, avoiding kinks, when I wrap it up although I do keep it reasonably "straight". It has never felt warm to my touch, except when lying in brilliant sunshine. Is it, perhaps, a case of saying "avoid holidays in sunny climates" rather than "uncoil fully on UK sites"? - Gordon

It certainly can. A couple of years ago I left a 2KW fan heater on in our garage connected to a 2.5mm cable (same as EHU) on a reel. I forgot to unwind the cable (I did know I should have, I just wasn't thinking). A couple of days later I found the breaker had tripped and the cable drum was a melted mass. The insulation had melted in the heat and the conducting wires had shorted out.

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[Gizmouk]

I'm not disputing that it is ADVISED in umpteen situations, but I used to get a 6page COSHH document when I ordered 1kg of that dangerous NaCl stuff!

What I'm asking for are FIGURES supporting the advice. I think 25m of 2.5mm wire should have a resistance of 0.02ohm (but I could be misinterpreting my values). Passing 16A through this would lead to a power drop spread along the length of the wire in the region of 5W ie 0.2W per metre. Please persuade me that this will lead to significant heating of my cable, especially if it is tightly coiled, and I will understand why the advice exists.

Alternatively, quote certifiable examples where a cable has melted, burst into flames or produced such a large power drop to the MH/caravan that the performance of electrical items were severely affected.

I'm not advocating using coiled cables: I'm ONLY asking for justification of the advice - Gordon

PS for those who forget their chemistry, NaCl is common salt - the stuff you put on fish 'n chips.

PPS the advice never mentioned high blood pressure.

Is this the "figure" you want ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-15940837

 

[Techno]

Don't tell the Red Arrows but they've forgotten to uncoil their EHU cables!
View attachment 99589

That is an earth ground cable only to protect the service team and for lightening strikes

 

[Old Soldier]

There's a section in the electrical regs specifically for campsites. All EHU have to be protected by RCD. There is no danger of shock - at most, it'll feel like a pin prick.
Camp sites also have to be "Test / Inspected" at least once every 12 months. That includes testing RCDs for tripping current and speed.

Not everyone stops in campsites... I have stopped on farms, pubs and friends drives and they do not necessarily comply with regulations so all I'm trying to say is ensure you don't have a live cable in your hands before or after connecting / disconnecting to power supply, particularly in the wet.

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[Gorse Hill]

There's a section in the electrical regs specifically for campsites. All EHU have to be protected by RCD. There is no danger of shock - at most, it'll feel like a pin prick.
Camp sites also have to be "Test / Inspected" at least once every 12 months. That includes testing RCDs for tripping current and speed.

Not completely true, There is a common misconception that a 30mA RCD will limit the current that can flow through someone's body to earth to a maximum of 30mA. That is clearly not true unless we are talking about a slowly increasing current
The magnitude of the current is dependent only on the impedance of the path to earth through the victim, who will normally experience that full current (which, in some circumstances, could be a lot more than 30mA)
The RCD limits the duration of any current greater than 30mA to a very short period of time ( RCBOs / BSEN 61009 trip times are <=300ms@x1 and 40ms@x5 ) and that's what, in many cases, MAY prevent the shock being fatal.
Some pin prick

The other very common misconception, is that an RCD can 'help' if you touch both L and N simultaneously - which it clearly cannot.
Should be tested every 3 months, via test button, and we all know that's done by campsite owners

 

[Old Soldier]

Not completely true, There is a common misconception that a 30mA RCD will limit the current that can flow through someone's body to earth to a maximum of 30mA. That is clearly not true unless we are talking about a slowly increasing current
The magnitude of the current is dependent only on the impedance of the path to earth through the victim, who will normally experience that full current (which, in some circumstances, could be a lot more than 30mA)
The RCD limits the duration of any current greater than 30mA to a very short period of time ( RCBOs / BSEN 61009 trip times are <=300ms@x1 and 40ms@x5 ) and that's what, in many cases, MAY prevent the shock being fatal.
Some pin prick

The other very common misconception, is that an RCD can 'help' if you touch both L and N simultaneously - which it clearly cannot.
Should be tested every 3 months, via test button, and we all know that's done by campsite owners

That's what I ment to say....!!

 

[Techno]

MAY? It is designed to prevent Fatality not may

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[PeteH]

I suspect this one is a good example. In my view not helped in this case by being 110/115 volts. and therefore for a given load pulling twice the Amps!







Nasty!

Pete

 

[Gorse Hill]

MAY? It is designed to prevent Fatality not may

You should know better Techno, the RCD can't trip up until 30mA flows through your body, but that doesn't mean it can't be more than 30mA for a very brief time. By limiting the duration of the shock to a very short period of time, a 30 mA RCD should (but is not guaranteed to) spare you from a fatal outcome if your heart is in a healthy condition (probably plenty of M/H with a dodgy heart)
Never seen anywhere that gives a guarantee a RCD will prevent death, stood in a pool of water with no shoes , have a go and let us know how you get on

 

[Techno]

I disagree with your scaremongering. The sole purpose of any RCD is to disconnect before a fatal current (one that affects the heart) can pass. It serves absolutely no other purpose and I think the IEE would take you to task.

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[Gorse Hill]

I disagree with your scaremongering. The sole purpose of any RCD is to disconnect before a fatal current (one that affects the heart) can pass. It serves absolutely no other purpose and I think the IEE would take you to task.

I call it education you call it scaremongering, crack away
We are now called the IET, not IEE
Another function of the RCD is fire risk again something you know

 

[Old Soldier]

I suspect this one is a good example. In my view not helped in this case by being 110/115 volts. and therefore for a given load pulling twice the Amps!







Nasty!

Pete

Now that's what I call "Hot Wiring"...!

 

[Techno]

I'll revise that to PRIMARY purpose. I stand by the rest.

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[gus-lopez]

BUT does it really happen? Can anyone offer values for resistance of 25m of copper cable, temperature & resistance rise created by 16A current?

My EHU cable must be over 10y old and sits outside in all weathers. It is not coiled carefully, avoiding kinks, when I wrap it up although I do keep it reasonably "straight". It has never felt warm to my touch, except when lying in brilliant sunshine. Is it, perhaps, a case of saying "avoid holidays in sunny climates" rather than "uncoil fully on UK sites"? - Gordon

Yes , I've had blokes working for us that have done it.

Perhaps there is something wrong with the link? All I get is lots of pictures of reels - Gordon

A closer look shows they've all melted/caught fire.

I call it education you call it scaremongering, crack away
We are now called the IET, not IEE

Aah ha, another member .

 

[Techno]

 

[Rapido925M]

you asked for justification.. did you not see the pictures of reels that had caught fire ???

SORRY All I "saw" was a lot of pics: I didn't appreciate that some of them were relevant to this discussion - Gordon

HOWEVER, I would still appreciate an explanation as to why coiling them up produced this result. IF there was a fault in the cable, would it not also result in the fire/melting? Has there ever been an incidence of uncoiled cables melting/burning? Perhaps an outbreak of fire in a straight cable would be more visible and easier to control?

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[Gorse Hill]

I disagree with your scaremongering. The sole purpose of any RCD is to disconnect before a fatal current (one that affects the heart) can pass. It serves absolutely no other purpose and I think the IEE would take you to task.

I'll revise that to PRIMARY purpose. I stand by the rest.

All current, no matter how small effects the heart
You fail to accept that people have established heart problems and so many different factors/conditions that you haven't taken into account
Please point me to any regulator body/ manufacture that has given a guarantee an RCD will prevent death
Even if it's a 1% chance a fatal shock could kill better to respect electricity rather than take it for granted
Tell you what Techno sit in a bath of water and touch a live conductor (RCD protected obviously) and let me know if it trips