CL or CS Owner? (1 Viewer)

[Jim]

Got told today that a CL is subject to Business Rates at a rateable value of 20% of estimated turnover. Are you a CL owner? Is this the norm? or just our local Ceredigion council taking the Pee

 

[dylan]

Jim, we have been told over the phone, no letter arrived as yet, that we have to pay business rates ! We will of course be fighting it all the way to the Assembly It seems at the moment pay up or close down Will update asap.

 

[Wildman]

As clear as mud Gail, so what rateable value should I be looking at for a CL in Devon, I can't get a clue from those sites am I thick or what.

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[johnnerontheroad]

Jim,

Have a look at this link it may help Link Removed

Dave

 

[gazznsam]

blimey what a bummer, i thought the 5 van sites thing got round all the red tape, but as usual the government wants to dip their sticky fingers in,

we've always wanted to have a bit of land to use as a CL, not going to happen as we'll be renting for ever, but with hassle like that, we'd think twice, as i imagine others have done, hence more close than new uns open.

 

[Jim]

Jim, we have been told over the phone, no letter arrived as yet, that we have to pay business rates ! We will of course be fighting it all the way to the Assembly It seems at the moment pay up or close down Will update asap.

Its the Valuation Office that will set the rate, based upon projected turnoover. Its a good job you have only just opened as in my experience they always back date to opening day You need to convince them that your turnover is miniscule.

If it is the same as my council, 20% of turnover = ratable value. But remember you wont pay that, you pay a rate per £, that rate is variable, about 48p (I think)

So if you turned over £2000 a year, 20% = £400 which will be a bill of around £190, I think... I have had a few glasses of red

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[dylan]

We have been told over the phone what my rate is just awaiting the letter to confirm it.
I will apply for the rebate and get advice of course from MP and Assembly as they do welcome tourism. Not told anything about turnover and percentages.

 

[Wildman]

blimey what a bummer, i thought the 5 van sites thing got round all the red tape, but as usual the government wants to dip their sticky fingers in,

we've always wanted to have a bit of land to use as a CL, not going to happen as we'll be renting for ever, but with hassle like that, we'd think twice, as i imagine others have done, hence more close than new uns open.

Not only do they not get around the red tape but if the local planning authority have any objections a licence is refused, just because they don't want to upset anyone. Even though they could grant an application irrespective of planning opinion. Life is tough so you have business rates, water rates, sewerage charge, rubbish removal charge and income tax all to come out of the £5-12 a night add the costs of setting it up and you can see it is a labour of love not of commerce. So next time you are on a CL have pity on the poor old owner they are not rolling in it, most are fighting to keep their heads above water. Let alone recoup setup costs. and make a profit.

 

[Road Runner]

Te welsh tourist board spend $$$$$$$$$$ advertising "come to Wales"

Me thinks it should really say "Wales is closed to tourism"

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[gazznsam]

being on a few biker forums, wales is closed to bikers thanks to that brunstrom bloke hating them, i deffo wouldent ride a bike in wales nowadays, even tho i never ride like a holigan and respect speed limits.

but for the red tape thing, i read it as the 5 van limit thing was to get round planning applications, ok i guess you still need some form of permision, but nothing like if setting up a campsite as your main income.

i also appreciate CL's and their owners, but also know they arent intended to be a main source of income, which is part of their charm to most, they are run by people with a passion for caravanning or motorhoming, and not someone who has pound signs apeer in their eyes and say 'kerching' every time a motorhome drives down the approach road.

BUT i do object to CL's that are nothing more than a bumpy field of sheep poo with a stand pipe at the muddiest end, 25 miles in any direction from anything remotely interesting, charging the same price as it costs to stay on a club site near london,

 

[scotjimland]

BUT i do object to CL's that are nothing more than a bumpy field of sheep poo with a stand pipe at the muddiest end, 25 miles in any direction from anything remotely interesting, charging the same price as it costs to stay on a club site near london,

But.. for some that is the attraction .. how much is 'getting away from the maddening crowd' worth ?

Personally, I'd rather be on a quiet remote CL with a standpipe and cesspit than a commercial site near a town..

For me it's PRICELESS ..

Long live the basic CL .. that's why we have all mod con vans , isn't it ?

 

[Wildman]

My CL application is still going ahead, will just have to have more rallies to cover basic costs, after all the whole idea of it was to legalise visits by many friends, if Wildman can't go to the rallies then the rallies must come to wildman, hee hee

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[dylan]

Our letter came this morning and its from April 2009 till April 2010 and we will object to paying this sum ! We asked what benefits we get paying business rates and he said he didn't understand what I meant ! We did find out there are NO benefits at all. Just another Tax.

 

[gazznsam]

oh i've got no problems with basic CL's, thats what i prefer, and the odd club site with no bog block, but i object to them trying to charge the same rate as youd pay for a full facilities proper campsite when it's just a field in the middle of nowhere.

i guess i'm spoilt from using the aire de camping car and wohnmobile stellplatz system abroad.

 

[dylan]

being on a few biker forums, wales is closed to bikers thanks to that brunstrom bloke hating them, i deffo wouldent ride a bike in wales nowadays, even tho i never ride like a holigan and respect speed limits.

but for the red tape thing, i read it as the 5 van limit thing was to get round planning applications, ok i guess you still need some form of permision, but nothing like if setting up a campsite as your main income.

i also appreciate CL's and their owners, but also know they arent intended to be a main source of income, which is part of their charm to most, they are run by people with a passion for caravanning or motorhoming, and not someone who has pound signs apeer in their eyes and say 'kerching' every time a motorhome drives down the approach road.

BUT i do object to CL's that are nothing more than a bumpy field of sheep poo with a stand pipe at the muddiest end, 25 miles in any direction from anything remotely interesting, charging the same price as it costs to stay on a club site near london,

There are thousands of bikers here in my area every weekend going to the biker cafe in Llandovery so not everyone thinks Wales is closed to bikers.

As for the campsite I don't have loos or showers but have the required facilities. No sheep and no mud and a stone road to stone hardstandings. I now have to pay business rates on this and if I had a bumpy field with sheep poo I wouldn't have to pay business rates the VOA man said.

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[RuthRv]

There are thousands of bikers here in my area every weekend going to the biker cafe in Llandovery so not everyone thinks Wales is closed to bikers.

As for the campsite I don't have loos or showers but have the required facilities. No sheep and no mud and a stone road to stone hardstandings. I now have to pay business rates on this and if I had a bumpy field with sheep poo I wouldn't have to pay business rates the VOA man said.

Eileen's & Marks site is really lovely and charges same price all year round, takes large rvs'
and so peaceful, railway station is only a stones throw away,

eileen, you are in wales so sheep and poo could be arranged

 

[dylan]

Eileen's & Marks site is really lovely and charges same price all year round, takes large rvs'
and so peaceful, railway station is only a stones throw away,

eileen, you are in wales so sheep and poo could be arranged

Thanks Ruth, yep take up hardstanding get rid of electric arrange sheep - poo comes naturally - and save ourselves a bundle ! May still get the odd camper who likes it like that!! Makes you wonder why we bother oh:

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

Tell them you have now closed down and its for visiting friends only (Funsters) and they only pay a 'contribution' towards upkeep!

Might work

Peter

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[Wildman]

so I have to make sure the cows are in there when they come to inspect then, hee hee

 

[dylan]

Well much better news this morning from Carmarthenshire CC. Business rate bill arrived and Business Rate Rebate already deducted so bill isn't half as bad as we first thought. Can live with it for the time being and will look at it again Jan 2010 to see how finances are. :Sad:
Thanks to all who posted and pm'd help and support :thumb:

 

[Jaws]

I do really feel for all you good folks who run CL's.. I did look in to it a couple of years ago ( I still have the option on site that is a few acres ) but decided it really was not worth the effort involved .

As for Wales being closed to bikers... certainly is to anyone with more than one bike on a policy.. Insurance companies only ever subbit the main bike for inclusion on the PNC.. If like me you happen to stray across into bum storms domain you can expect not to leave it with your bike !!!
And a good friend of mine also had a work crew left at the side of the road cos the crewbus came back as uninsured.. this was one of a fleet of 20 units !!
Sorry peeps of Wales.. I used to love riding all over the place in your beatiful country, but I will not go near the place now unless I have ALL my paperwork with me !

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[pappajohn]

but for the red tape thing, i read it as the 5 van limit thing was to get round planning applications,

im with gazznsam on this one,
i understood the five van rule was to get around planning permission and any more made it a commercial caravan site and also a commercial business to be licenced and taxed as such.
with a CL you only need to declare any income to the inland robbery.

obviously my ex's mother didnt know the rules, year on year, with her CC CLoh: she just paid her tax and that was that.

 

[dylan]

We didn't need planning as such but we did have to consult them on our plans. Had to consult one neighbour although a field away and council also looked at our entrance to the site. We had to move our gate back 12 foot from the road to comply.
Business rates man came on site jumped out of his car and quickly took photos and left. We were told by friends who took his car registration (old car ! ) is case he was "sizeing the joint up". He phoned next day to say" he was in the area and hoped we didn't mind"
oh: we did !! Perhaps it would have been polite to ask :Angry:

 

[Jim]

I have just written to the valuation office for written answers to the following questions

• [FONT=&quot]How is the rate set?[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]If wish to be open for a few months a year, is this taken into consideration when setting the rate?[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]If we construct 5 hard-standings in the field will the rate be higher than if they were just grass?[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]If after being listed we decide to close the site for whatever reason, will we have to continue paying, just like we would if it were an empty business building?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
I will let you know the response
[/FONT]

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[dylan]

Jim, should you be passing by please drop in to look at my paperwork from CCC and VOA. It may answer your questions.
Eileen

 

[Wildman]

I got a letter from the Motorcaravanners club today to say they were happy to issue a CL licence subject to approval and visit by the local authority. So local planners have the last word after all. Not really in the spirit of CL licencing is it, have to wait another 6-8 weeks now

 

[dylan]

Hi Roger, I think I have said but here goes if its any help, council man came out to us and looked at access to site and told us to move our gate 12ft off the road inwards so caravans and motorhomes don't sit on the road whilst undoing the gate. Looked at neighbours around and said we must tell one person, although he is a field away, what we intended doing. Said they had no more problems so did what they asked and opened our site. :thumb:

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[Wildman]

I have just written to the valuation office for written answers to the following questions

• [FONT=&quot]How is the rate set?[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]If wish to be open for a few months a year, is this taken into consideration when setting the rate?[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]If we construct 5 hard-standings in the field will the rate be higher than if they were just grass?[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]If after being listed we decide to close the site for whatever reason, will we have to continue paying, just like we would if it were an empty business building?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]I will let you know the response[/FONT]
[/FONT]

Hi Jim are you still awaiting a reply or did you forget to post it.

 

[Road Runner]

I do really feel for all you good folks who run CL's.. I did look in to it a couple of years ago ( I still have the option on site that is a few acres ) but decided it really was not worth the effort involved .

As for Wales being closed to bikers... certainly is to anyone with more than one bike on a policy.. Insurance companies only ever subbit the main bike for inclusion on the PNC.. If like me you happen to stray across into bum storms domain you can expect not to leave it with your bike !!!
And a good friend of mine also had a work crew left at the side of the road cos the crewbus came back as uninsured.. this was one of a fleet of 20 units !!
Sorry peeps of Wales.. I used to love riding all over the place in your beatiful country, but I will not go near the place now unless I have ALL my paperwork with me !

Eh I have 2 bikes on one policy with the AA.

What is the problem?

If I had an issue the AA would certainly get an earbashung and again neither of my bike has been nominated as main bike.