Change to overnight parking rules in Highlands

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Mags52, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. Mags52

    Mags52 Funster

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    I don't know if anyone else saw this but it seems that Transport Scotland is going to remove all the No Overnight Parking signs in the Highlands as they are not legal. The law says that if you are tired when driving you should pull over and take a nap. Happy napping funsters! Yippee!:BigGrin:
     
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  2. aba

    aba

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    i wonder how many in the rest of england and wales are also illegal.
     
  3. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

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    depends on local bylaws really. anyway good news on parking in the highlands, but what aboot the rest of Scotland. Loch Lomond in particular, I seem to remember camping bans being put in place, do the now differenciate between camping and overnight parking. they should.
     
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  4. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    Transport Scotland have obviously acted properly now that the ultra vires prohibition has been pointed out. Hopefully those who use the laybys in future will also act properly and not create litter or use them as "unofficial, open-air toilets".

    As regards the rest of the UK, it is easy enough to establish whether any particular order is valid. Just contact the council concerned and ask them for details of the TRO which applies under FoI they must inform you. A TRO might ban overnight parking and/or overnight habitation.

    Is it really true, though, that "the law says that if you are tired when driving you should pull over and take a nap"? I thought there was simply a prohibition of careless/dangerous driving, one cause of which might be that the driver is tired. It is incumbent on all of us, surely, to plan our journeys such that they include stopping points as necessary - which does not mean that we have a right to use a layby for habitation just because we are tired :Smile:
     
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  5. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    The 'illegal' signs were erected to prevent lay-bys being used by 'travelers', caravans and motorhomes as camping grounds, thereby depriving others .. now it's been highlighted and brought to the attention of the authorities, how long before they apply for TRO's. ?
    Andy's action may be laudable but sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie..

    Having a nap is one thing, but camping in a lay-by ? Why not book into a site. Not only a much safer place to spend the night but also help support the local economy.

    Just to clarify, I'm not against legal wild camping in a proper setting.. but lay-by camping isn't wild camping, it's parking. Many a time I've stopped for a break in one and been disgusted at the mess and human filth left on the roadside, why anyone would want to sleep in one is beyond me.
     
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  6. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

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    That is where I beg to differ Graham, it is exactly what laybys are there for, taking a rest break with no difference between night or day. It is the truckers who leave rubbish and toilet waste not motorhomers who have on board facilities. We all have a choice, I never plan a journey and cannot tell you in the morning where I may or may not be in the evening. The freedom afforded by a self contained unit is freedom from sites and regimentation. I appreciate there are those who like a drink and/or the feeling of security that a site gives them which is great for them. For the rest of us however the inference that we should all be on sites is not what I want to hear no matter how well meaning it is. It is obvious to me that as a long time public servant you are conditioned to think the way you do and I don't hold that against you, you are still a very nice man, hee hee and I mean no offense. Without the freedom to pull up where/ when I please (as long as there is no obstruction or nuisance caused) I would give up and get another boat instead. We are all entitled to our opinions/choices and thank goodness we are.
     
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  7. Spacerunner

    Spacerunner Read Only Funster

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    Apart from not having a clue to what the highlighted terms mean its totally impracticable to attempt to phone local authorities if you just want to pull over for a night.
    IMO such advice is pointless. :Smile:
     
  8. Jaws

    Jaws Funster Life Member

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    Well SR, having been in the position of needing clarification about parking in a certain place, I can assure you than a phone call of less than five minutes to a local authority to check if any TRO's were in place, is actually well worth while and not bad advice at all :thumb:

    Just to help you..

    TRO = Traffic Regulation Order

    FoI = Freedom of Information Act 2000

    Ultra vires = Latin phrase literally "beyond the powers" So in this case the local councils exceded their power



    As an aside, I not so close friend suffers a mild form of narcolepsy.. As I say it is mild and he has plenty or warning before anything happens..
    As soon as he feels an attach coming on he HAS to stop and sleep.. I have not seen the chap for several years now but I know he used to carry a doctors letter in case of a meeting with a stroppy traffic warden or similar

    Soooooo.. all we need do is get a friendly GP to give us all such letters and we can plot up pretty much anywhere !!!! :thumb: :Rofl1:
     
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  9. Spacerunner

    Spacerunner Read Only Funster

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    So where do I get the phone number from and which local authority employee is going to answer the phone at seven in the evening. And how many of this local authority's departments are going to be open at seven in the evening so they can shunt me round trying to find an answer. And will they be able to give me an answer? :Smile:
     
  10. Jaws

    Jaws Funster Life Member

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    Local police station.. They gave me the 24 hour contact details .. It was THEY who suggested the call as I had popped in the station to ask them...

    Because accidents do not stop happening at 5pm and clear up squads have to be on hand and dispatched as and when, local authorities are obliged to maintain a 24 hour 7 day a week operations line
     
  11. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    Yes, Roger, laybys are there for taking a rest break, but they are not there for habitation if there is a valid TRO in place restricting it. I appreciate fully that you mean no offence but it isn't conditioning, it's ability to research, read and understand legislation :Smile: If anyone cares to have a look at http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/roads.htm they will find that I did make the effort to research this point.

    Motorhomes do give us freedom from sites and regimentation but they do not give us the freedom to pull up where/when we please. We have to abide by the same restrictions as everyone else and that includes abiding by any TROs which restrict habitation, whether it goes against our opinions or not :Smile:
     
  12. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    First of all, thanks to Jaws for the translation of the abbreviations & Latin.

    I am not suggesting that anyone should attempt to phone a LA at seven in the evening. I was responding to Andy's point "i wonder how many in the rest of england and wales are also illegal.". I apologise for any lack of clarity.
     
  13. Spacerunner

    Spacerunner Read Only Funster

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    I'm still not convinced.

    Didn't see that many police stations in rural Wales or England and I would not be interested in a 30 mile round trip to the nearest town just to know if i pull over in a layby next to a HGV thats already been there for several hours.

    If I have to make sure its legal why don't HGV's have to do the same.
    And.......just what are laybys for then, if not to pull into for a kip?
     
  14. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    There is different legislation covering HGVs because of the restrictions on driving hours. Pulling in for a kip - as one might in a car - is different from overnight habitation which some TROs restrict.
     
  15. sedge

    sedge Funster

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    I shall be writing to the Transport Minister.

    They really have to make a law to prevent truckers taking so many babies in nappies in their trucks, since it must be them who are throwing soiled nappies about the place.

    Not satisified with already having at least one such in their cab, they are also fornicating in the same laybys, mind you that may not result in further births, judging by the amount of used condoms ....

    Plus McD's should not be selling Happy Meals to Truckers. We know they are because of the boxes strewn about. It's really not good for their image .....

    Yours,

    Disgusted
    Bedworth
     
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  16. yorkieman

    yorkieman Funster

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    What about the 2 hour rule at motorway service stations.

    I remember several occasions when I was younger having to stop off and have a few hours sleep in the middle of a long drive back from Europe.

    These days it seems if you nod off for more than two hours you're in for a whopping surprise in the mail a few days later, i.e. a big fine.

    Surely it SHOULD be legal to be able to have a snooze for more than two hours - if you need it - without having to pay money. Aren't we already paying our road tax for these kind of facilities :Smile:
     
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  17. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    No, we're not paying our road tax for these kind of facilities.

    Notwithstanding that we all (except those drivers whose hours are regulated by law) have control over our own destiny and every opportunity and ability to ensure that we plan our trips such that we build in rest stops as required.

    Why should any organisation provide free facilities for anyone who refuses to make such provision?
     
  18. busby

    busby Funster

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    The majority of vehicles do not now pay road tax !!! they pay an emission charge!!!BUSBY:BigGrin:
     
  19. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    motor way service stations are leased off the govt . they dont have tro in their carparks .its a private carpark and if you dont pay they may take you to court . they may not as well. i believe if you went to court with a good story about safety and how you fell asleep and didnt wake up in time you would probably get off .
    usually they threaten but dont proceed with taking you to court .
     
  20. johnp10

    johnp10 Funster

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    It [HI]IS[/HI] legal to stop off for more than two hours.
    Motorway Services are leased, so are in effect private property.
    So no, we don't pay road or any other tax for these facilities.
    Two hours is usually allowed for free, then you pay.
    You agree to that by parking there. (See Ts & Cs)
    It's a business, not a charity.
    It's the driver's responsibility, not the Services' operators' to plan a journey so that proper, effective breaks (including overnights) can be taken.
    Also, they don't send a fine, it's a bona fide invoice.


    Where did that pearl of wisdom come from?
    Of course the majority pay VED, some get a lower rate related to emissions.

    Take you to court?
    They do, usually with successful outcome, they don't just threaten.

    Fell asleep but didn't wake up in time as a defence in court?
    Is that on Planet Earth or Fuller's Earth?
    How can a defence based essentially on "I was too tired to drive when I drove there" get you off?
    You use the facility, you are agreeing to the charges.
    You don't pay the charge, they invoice you.
    Don't pay the invoice, they can enforce it as an unpaid debt through the civil courts.
    A positive outcome for them can affect your credit rating etc.
    It's a debt, Alan. Nothing there to "get off with" in court.
     
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