Cannot drive MOT fail on road.....it seems. (1 Viewer)

[pappajohn]

If the vehicle fails miserably on one or more VERY dangerous items....ie, broken/excessively corroded chassis member, completely disintegrated brake disc etc, theY have the right to refuse to continue a test and refuse to release the vehicle unless its a full lift recovery.

Never heard of it happening but thats how i understand it.

GEO.........where are you GEO.

 

[Landy lover]

One thing a lot of people are unaware of - if the MOT has expired you have the right to drive to the MOT station without and MOT but if you stop for a paper on the way there you are actually committing a crime !!

 

[pappajohn]

my reading of the whole section is that you could still be liable for using a vehicle in a dangerous condition though. I don't think that is made clear enough. The only mention of that offence makes it rather look as if it's related to driving without an MOT, which it isn't - it's unrelated.

Yep......the MOT tester is responsible for ensuring the vehicle is in a roadworthy condition on the day of test.
Its then YOUR responsibility that it remains roadworthy for the next 364 days.

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[pappajohn]

One thing a lot of people are unaware of - if the MOT has expired you have the right to drive to the MOT station without and MOT but if you stop for a paper on the way there you are actually committing a crime !!

I believe the testing station must be within a REASONABLY distance as well.
You cant live in Aberdeen and book it into a garage in Dover just so you can get to your ferry with no MOT.

 

[Landy lover]

I believe the testing station must be within a REASONABLY distance as well.
You cant live in Aberdeen and book it into a garage in Dover just so you can get to your ferry with no MOT.

True yet no one to my knowledge has determined what is a reasonable distance yet - suppose if Plod felt the selected MOT station was an unreasonable distance to travel it would end up as a court case.

 

[jaygee]

I run an MOT garage and its always been the case to get the customer to book car in early (up to one month) so that in case of failure we and the customer can agree a date for repair, there existing unexpired mot cert is still a legal document and the vehicle can still be driven until it runs out.
This has in the past been supported by VOSA and the police.
Recently VOSA have been relabeled and a new service (computer) provider appointed, i wont go into details of new system other than its been a total head ache for testing stations.
Many things have changed as regards to MOT system, sometimes we are informed sometimes not so.
I'm unsure when the wording was changed as in OP but it appears to be a illogical step

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[Dave and Ginny]

Thanks for pointing this out, I would not have known that having an early test and a failure meant I couldn't drive it, even though it's logical .

 

[DBK]

Thanks for pointing this out, I would not have known that having an early test and a failure meant I couldn't drive it, even though it's logical .

Of course you can drive it home after a failed test. Vehicles fail the test every day and are driven home by their owners. The next time it is driven it can only be to get it repaired or for a retest if the owner fixed it themselves. This has always been the case and nothing has changed.

 

[The Wino]

I always get the mot done a month before due so I can still use the car if it fails (obviously not if its likely to kill me) in the month thats left and have it fixed in good time this moves the goalposts somewhat. We were in Ireland last week they were advertising the chance to book their equivalent of the mot up to 3 monthe early as they expect a big rush at the year end if the same rule applies you would have to be bonkers to risk failing and be unable to use your car 3 months early

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[Larby]

I run an MOT garage and its always been the case to get the customer to book car in early (up to one month) so that in case of failure we and the customer can agree a date for repair, there existing unexpired mot cert is still a legal document and the vehicle can still be driven until it runs out.
This has in the past been supported by VOSA and the police.
Recently VOSA have been relabeled and a new service (computer) provider appointed, i wont go into details of new system other than its been a total head ache for testing stations.
Many things have changed as regards to MOT system, sometimes we are informed sometimes not so.
I'm unsure when the wording was changed as in OP but it appears to be a illogical step

My 2 sons run a garage with repairs and MOTs, both are authorised testers.
I look forward to putting them on the spot in the morning.
A few years ago when I had company cars I took mine in a month early to give them a chance to establish the slight knocking before the MOT.
They said it was a worn joint so deemed it a failure, although not necessarily unsafe but as a fail, they were unable to release the car. I had to arrange hire car.
I learnt that they were ticked off by VOSA on the basis as long as the vehicle wasn't deemed dangerous, then the vehicle could be used until the existing MOT expired.
Seems a re-write of that condition has taken place

 

[TheCaller]

Thanks for pointing this out, I would not have known that having an early test and a failure meant I couldn't drive it, even though it's logical .

No, that's not what it says. But we are confusing two issues here.

You can remove the vehicle after a failed test. If the old certificate is still in force, as far as MOT rules are concerned, you can do what you like, so long as you get it repaired without delay & retested. If the old certificate has expired, you can only drive it to a place of repair.

Quite separately, there is the offence of using a vehicle in a dangerous condition. If it fails the test on a fault that renders the vehicle dangerous, you are committing an offence if you continue to use it. You were already committing an offence before that, but you might be able to claim that you were unaware. No chance of that after a failure & a refusal to issue a certificate, complete with reason for refusal.

If the fault was serious & you insisted on driving away, I have no idea if the tester has an obligation to report the fact.

 

[Larby]

I asked both sons (see previous thread) if it's OK to drive until current MOT expires if failure is due to minor faults. Both said yes, I showed them the revised info, they said with that wording then no you cannot drive as it would seem the last MOT test is now current status so vehicle is now without a valid MOT. To cover themselves in case of customers that decide to question their advice, (from today), the current advice has been printed and hung on the MOT info board.
So if you pass, you get up to 1 month added, if you fail, then you fail there and then? irrespective of time left to expiry date. Surely should read "even if the PREVIOUS MOT hasn't run out?" It is a bit contradictory or I am pedantic?
If my vehicle has failed then that must be the most recent MOT so that is now the CURRENT MOT, but the wording states "even if the MOT hasn’t run out". meaning the previous one, which is now no longer valid so hasn't "run out" but been over-ridden.
Not thought through properly ?





Failing the MOT
If your vehicle fails the MOT:

· you’ll get a ‘refusal of an MOT test certificate’ from the test centre

· it will be recorded in the MOT database

You can appeal the result if you think it’s wrong.

Driving a vehicle that’s failed
You must not drive the vehicle on the road if it fails the test, even if the MOT hasn’t run out, except to:

· have the failed defects fixed

· a pre-arranged MOT test appointment

You can be fined up to £2,500, be banned from driving and get 3 penalty points for driving a vehicle in a dangerous condition.

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[TheCaller]

Section 5 & Section 6 are at odds with each other.

5. MOT test result
<Snip>
Driving a vehicle that’s failed
You must not drive the vehicle on the road if it fails the test, even if the MOT hasn’t run out, except to:

• have the failed defects fixed
• a pre-arranged MOT test appointment

6. Retest after a repair
<Snip>
Taking your vehicle away for repairs
You can take your vehicle away if your MOT certificate is still valid.

You can only take your vehicle to or from somewhere to be repaired if your MOT has run out.

Section 5 says you can only take to be repaired. Section 6 says that restriction only applies if your MOT has run out, implying that you can take it home in the meantime if your MOT has not run out.

Unfortunately, they no longer even tell you which law applies, never mind link to it, so it's not easy to see which is correct.

Not forgetting in all this that irrespective of a test result, it's still a separate offence to use a vehicle in a dangerous condition. Whether failing an MOT automatically renders a vehicle to be in a dangerous condition for the purpose of that legislation is another question.

 

[DBK]

You're driving it home after the failed test in order to get it fixed. Folk need to stop putting their own interpretation on the poorly worded DVLA website. If this wasn't the case MOT test centres all over the country would be knee deep in MOT failures their owners were not allowed to drive home.

 

[jaygee]

[QUOTE="To cover themselves in case of customers that decide to question their advice, (from today), the current advice has been printed and hung on the MOT info board.[/QUOTE]

Snap - just done the same thing in our garage!

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[Larby]

You're driving it home after the failed test in order to get it fixed. Folk need to stop putting their own interpretation on the poorly worded DVLA website. If this wasn't the case MOT test centres all over the country would be knee deep in MOT failures their owners were not allowed to drive home.

What interpretation should they use?
They can drive home but can't use it for shopping etc. or can they?

 

[DBK]

What interpretation should they use?
They can drive home but can't use it for shopping etc. or can they?

Of course they can't use it for shopping.* You can only drive it somewhere to get it fixed or to a previously arranged MOT. If you plan to fix it yourself then you can drive it home. If you plan to get someone else to fix it you can drive it home so you can get on the phone to book an appointment. This is what has been going on since the MOT test was introduced and I don't see what has changed?

*Edit: Just seen Jaygee's comment that if the MOT certificate has not run out then it is still valid. So this would mean you can drive the vehicle though of course if the cause of failure made the vehicle unsafe (e.g. bald tyres or brakes not working) you would be very unwise to do so and the vehicle should not be driven at all. This applies irrespective of the MOT status.

 

[Geo]

We wont be doing anything.
Nothing has changed in respect of what can or cant be done after a fail it all as its always been, different people are reading as they will into what was/is intended
people are causing their own confusion
The Mot centre has no authority to confiscate any vehicle at any time
The Mot centre is free to report anything it wants to whoever it wants as are the general public
Jaygee and Larby's sons would be well advised to follow Vosa/Dvsa rules and not those of any forum, including views expressed on MoT Uk and the like
Testers are not obliged to offer any advise or warning
they can not be held to book if a dangerous car is driven away no matter how bad the car is.
It should be noted that for those running with MoT failures for the last week or so are doing it knowingly, those that run with defect unknowingly will suffer the same penalty ignorance is no excuse
sort out the intention of the word "USE" in this case, and all falls in to place
although if you are intent on being a pedant you will never make sense of anything
Geo

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[Geo]

?????Can we no longer delete post made in error
I dont seem to have the option

 

[TheCaller]

This is what has been going on since the MOT test was introduced and I don't see what has changed?

I suspect what's changed is that once again the attempt to simplify the various government websites has backfired. The principle source of advice in now a poorly worded mess that is less clear than its predecessor.

 

[Billy23]

Of course they can't use it for shopping. You can only drive it somewhere to get it fixed or to a previously arranged MOT. If you plan to fix it yourself then you can drive it home. If you plan to get someone else to fix it you can drive it home so you can get on the phone to book an appointment. This is what has been going on since the MOT test was introduced and I don't see what has changed?

I guess that you are correct, BUT please don't tell me that owners didn't take the vehicle to test early and it failed and they DIDNT drive it thinking that as they had this worthless piece of paper stating that the original MOT didn't run out for another month.......Cos I bet they did.

All I did as the OP`er was to point out to those that did not know....they cannot carry on driving it.

We have many members that did know.....and then again......

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[Larby]

I agree with what you say Geo, keep it black and white but customers may think their previous MOT is still valid until expiry. Is it wrong to draw their attention to the wording of a VOSA/DVSA notice?

 

[Billy23]

I agree with what you say Geo, keep it black and white but customers may think their previous MOT is still valid until expiry. Is it wrong to draw their attention to the wording of a VOSA/DVSA notice?

No it is not wrong.

 

[Charlie]

I run an MOT garage and its always been the case to get the customer to book car in early (up to one month) so that in case of failure we and the customer can agree a date for repair, there existing unexpired mot cert is still a legal document and the vehicle can still be driven until it runs out.
This has in the past been supported by VOSA and the police.
Recently VOSA have been relabeled and a new service (computer) provider appointed, i wont go into details of new system other than its been a total head ache for testing stations.
Many things have changed as regards to MOT system, sometimes we are informed sometimes not so.
I'm unsure when the wording was changed as in OP but it appears to be a illogical step

But in driving with a known fault the driver could still be exposed to prosecution for say a tyre worn beyond the limit.....

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[Geo]

He exposed himself before the MoT by not checking that the car was in a roadworthy condition and after by continuing to use the car (Use as in the excepted/implied term)

To answer Larby
The MoT remains Valid
Only give out advise you are 100% sure on you leave yourself open to critasism
its not the Testers re mit to educate the world he's there to test your vehicle
G

 

[gus-lopez]

Years ago if you took it fora test & it was a death trap I'm sure that they used to issue a pink ticket to the effect that it could not be removed from the testing station without being recovered. Or am I dreaming that ?

I prefer it here, nice & simple.
Pass
Pass with minor defects
Fail with defects that require you to remove the vehicle to a place of repair & are not allowed to be driven on road for any other reason
Fail With serious defects that require the vehicle to be removed from the testing station on a recovery truck /trailer to a place for repair. Not allowed to be driven full stop.
In the event of any failure your " ficha tecnica" ( a document that lists the full spec of vehicle + all & any homologated options that are on it is retained.)
In the event of the vehicle not reappearing for the retest within 2 months the Trafico arm of the Guardia are notified & your " Permiso de Circulación" ( the certificate that allows the vehicle to legally circulate on public roads ) is removed.

 

[Larby]

o answer Larby
The MoT remains Valid
Only give out advise you are 100% sure on you leave yourself open to critasism
its not the Testers re mit to educate the world he's there to test your vehicle
G

Thank you for your advice George, however, the advice my sons will give is to draw the customer's attention to the official notice:
https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/after-the-test

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[jaygee]

We wont be doing anything.
Nothing has changed in respect of what can or cant be done after a fail it all as its always been, different people are reading as they will into what was/is intended
people are causing their own confusion
The Mot centre has no authority to confiscate any vehicle at any time
The Mot centre is free to report anything it wants to whoever it wants as are the general public
Jaygee and Larby's sons would be well advised to follow Vosa/Dvsa rules and not those of any forum, including views expressed on MoT Uk and the like
Testers are not obliged to offer any advise or warning
they can not be held to book if a dangerous car is driven away no matter how bad the car is.
It should be noted that for those running with MoT failures for the last week or so are doing it knowingly, those that run with defect unknowingly will suffer the same penalty ignorance is no excuse
sort out the intention of the word "USE" in this case, and all falls in to place
although if you are intent on being a pedant you will never make sense of anything
Geo

We will as duty of care continue to advise our customers that wont change, what has changed is some of the wording regarding MOT failure which once again we will draw to the customers notice.