Camping off site what you need to know (1 Viewer)

[coldstreamer]

Hi,
The question of the law seems very secular in this thread.
We live close to a very large works complex and at any one time there is upwards of 30 HGV'S in layby's parked up for the night, 'Out of hours! This has been the practice for many years and the police patrol often to ensure their safety. We often see a odd Camper parked up with them, No Props.! I think safety in numbers without hassle. There is still Freedom of the Highway even these days,
Best Regards Mac

 

[JJ]

Probably of no use to ninety-nine percent of Funsters and of little interest either but...

Here goes...

I don't know what law says what or what you are allowed to do or not allowed to do...

I will simply say that, should you choose to, it is possible to live full time in a van on the streets of the UK without troubling anyone in any way and never be in trouble with the police or the authorities...

This is not opinion or the result of research or what someone said to someone.

This is fact.

I, and many others, know this to be true.

Should anyone want to know how to do it, the answer I would give is that you must find out for yourself...

...if anyone wants to know how I do it I will be delighted to explain in person.

Come to the Malvern meet or come to Portugal. I would be happy to talk about it and/or show you.:thumb:

But people who really want to live this alternative lifestyle won't need any tips from me... they will just do it.

In life there are people who talk the talk and there are those who walk the walk...

Sorry to rabbit on so...:Blush:

JJ :Cool:

 

[Gromett]

Currently parked on a side street, just come from an industrial estate next to a wildlife reserve. Over the last 6 months I have been on campsites for a total of 3 weeks over christmas/new year.

JJ, is correct. It is possible to park/sleep overnight without getting anyone upset. Camping up is a different matter though.

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[GJH]

Both JJ and Gromett are absolutely correct.

As Vlad and I have both pointed out (in different words) there is no national legislation which prohibits roadside camping. Thus, unless there is a local TRO in place, it is legal.

Where there is a local TRO in place it is illegal and problems occur (potentially for all of us) when people ignore those TROs. We saw the consequences in Scarborough/Whitby last year and in Blackpool, Link Removed for instance, a couple of years ago, amongst other places.

 

[buttons]

OK. The law and why and the reality.

In UK, and most commom law countries everything is legal unless there is a specific law against it

There are national laws we are all supposed to know about and local laws or bye laws about which, because they vary, explicit warnings have to be given

1. There is no national no parking overnight and sleeping in your van law
2. [HI]You cannot do it on private land[/HI] without land owners permission, [HI]but they can only ask you to leave, trespass is not a criminal offence [/HI]
3. On public land there will be bye laws in all probability. The sign has to provide specific warning so no staying in vehicles over night is specific, no camping may not be if you have 40 foot USRV. No sleeping in vehicles is also specific. Anything else and you are free to stay and sleep

Practically do not stay where it might offend a near neighbour, do not have buckets for waste on show, don't park where there are gates which might be closed to ock you in, may be in the right but do you want to waste time with a jobs worth in the morning.

Leave early, quietly and tidily

Remember it is not the police who will endoprce most bye laws but bye law officers, they will be tucked up at home in nice warm beds and do 09.00 to 17.30. If you are approached by an irate member of the public, explain you are not local, sympathise with him, ask him to show you the bye law and where the warning sign is.

This attitude is all so short sighted as you would expect, some like to pull and push the law for their own ends. Have you come across height restrictions or mechanical barriers? These tend to do away with any uncertainty, as signs like “no parking for any vehicles with cooking facilities” do.
Have a pleasant stay, possibly one of the last before the height restriction stop anyone else from enjoying the spot.

 

[maz]

In life there are people who talk the talk and there are those who walk the walk...

For those of us that walk (whether with a wiggle or a swagger), all I can say is that common sense and a little charm go a long way.

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[B-well]

Just because something is not illegal or unlawful does not mean that it is right............................................

now i understood unlawful was against state law, but illegal was a sick bird

 

[scotjimland]

Both JJ and Gromett are absolutely correct.

As Vlad and I have both pointed out (in different words) there is no national legislation which prohibits roadside camping. Thus, unless there is a local TRO in place, it is legal.

Where there is a local TRO in place it is illegal and problems occur (potentially for all of us) when people ignore those TROs. We saw the consequences in [HI]Scarborough/Whitby last year and in Blackpool,[/HI] Link Removed for instance, a couple of years ago, amongst other places.

and now Clacton...

Caravans to be banned from parts of Clacton seafront

3:00pm Sunday 24th March 2013 in News
CARAVANS could be banned from parts of Clacton seafront as part of an overhaul of parking restrictions in the resort.

The North Essex Parking Partnership and Tendring Council have proposed restricted parking for lorries and coaches on part of the seafront from Martello Bay to Holland.

There will also be restricting camper vans and caravans from Clacton Pier to Martello Bay.

It is hoped the move will also stop travellers from affecting Clacton Air Show.

Last year a dozen caravans camped in Marine Parade West, next to the Greensward just two days before the air show took to the skies, which led to fears the show would not be able to go ahead as traders were blocked from using the site.

http://www.clactonandfrintongazette.co.uk/news/10301449.Caravans_to_be_banned_from_parts_of_Clacton_seafront/

 

[Snowbird]

I see as there are 4 types of off site camper. There are those that think its OK to just do as they please regardless of breaking the law and disregarding what ever others may think.
There are those that wild camp with thought,and choose there wild camping pitches carefully bearing in mind what others may think about having itinerant neighbours on there doorstep.
There are wild campers that like there wildings to be secluded and alone without others nearby.
There are wild campers that like the company of friends and like minded people.
I fall into three of these groups, those that know me will know which three :Cool:

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[Gromett]

I would just like to point out that I differentiate parking and camping.

When I stop somewhere I am parking for the purpose of sleeping overnight.
I don't camp.. ie I don't get waste hog out, I don't pull awning or chairs out. In fact the only thing that distinguishes me from a commercial vehicle parked up is the windows and in cold weather the odd puff of steam from my heater vent.

If I want to visit somewhere nice, I will do so during the day, I will sit in the van with the sliding door wide open, I may cook food or have a cuppa. I will sit on the step and admire the view. However I can't recall a time where I will stay there during the day then overnight. I would always go somewhere else to park up for the night and kip.

When parking, I have the same rights as any other legally parked vehicle as far as I know. If I stop in a car park I treat it as private land and look for signs that prohibit overnight sleeping. There are a few of these in Derbyshire. However I would usually prefer to ask a pub landlord for permission on the understanding I would be having a few pints and would be off his car park by 2pm

All the above relates to the UK. When in France I will use the Aires and shop locally by way of a thank you for providing the facility. I love French butchers and bakers :thumb:

 

[GJH]

I would just like to point out that I differentiate parking and camping.

When I stop somewhere I am parking for the purpose of sleeping overnight.
I don't camp.. ie I don't get waste hog out, I don't pull awning or chairs out. In fact the only thing that distinguishes me from a commercial vehicle parked up is the windows and in cold weather the odd puff of steam from my heater vent.(snip for brevity)

Unfortunately, Karl, local authorities which differentiate between parking and camping use a different definition. Search for sleeping using the Google site search at http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/ and you will find that many TROs ban sleeping in car parks, laybys &c.

Of course, as said before, if anyone is sleeping in a vehicle beside a road where no TRO exists then it is fine so long as all general parking/lighting requirements are complied with.

 

[Gromett]

Unfortunately, Karl, local authorities which differentiate between parking and camping use a different definition. Search for sleeping using the Google site search at http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/ and you will find that many TROs ban sleeping in car parks, laybys &c.

Of course, as said before, if anyone is sleeping in a vehicle beside a road where no TRO exists then it is fine so long as all general parking/lighting requirements are complied with.

I thought I had made that point? In a normal town only the car parks will have signs banning sleeping (in retford they have a sign banning lorries stopping overnight but not sleeping in a van specifically). The only place I have seen this is in some car parks in Derbyshire. The one that springs to mind is in Edale which bans overnight stays for caravan and says not to lorries overnight. It doesn't mention motorhomes sleeping. I asked a parking attendant and he said is was ok.

In normal towns though parking on a side street as though you are parking a car should be fine. Usual parking restriction obviously apply yellow lines etc.
I also make sure I am not in front of a house with no garden so my van doesn't block light. In fact I try to avoid parking in front of houses full stop but when I do I make sure I am not inconveniencing them. I arrive latish and leave early. I imagine it was my house and ask myself would I be peed of if someone did it to me.

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[GJH]

I thought I had made that point? In a normal town only the car parks will have signs banning sleeping (in retford they have a sign banning lorries stopping overnight but not sleeping in a van specifically). The only place I have seen this is in some car parks in Derbyshire. The one that springs to mind is in Edale which bans overnight stays for caravan and says not to lorries overnight. It doesn't mention motorhomes sleeping. I asked a parking attendant and he said is was ok.

In normal towns though parking on a side street as though you are parking a car should be fine. Usual parking restriction obviously apply yellow lines etc.
I also make sure I am not in front of a house with no garden so my van doesn't block light. In fact I try to avoid parking in front of houses full stop but when I do I make sure I am not inconveniencing them. I arrive latish and leave early. I imagine it was my house and ask myself would I be peed of if someone did it to me.

I agree - but, increasingly, on-street parking is being included. Blackpool and (possibly) Clacton seafronts for example. Granted side streets are rarely, if ever, included at the moment but you can bet they will be if local residents start to become upset by people who behave less considerately than you.

 

[Snowbird]

I agree - but, increasingly, on-street parking is being included. Blackpool and (possibly) Clacton seafronts for example. Granted side streets are rarely, if ever, included at the moment but you can bet they will be if local residents start to become upset by people who behave less considerately than you.

I cannot understand why home owners get upset by SOME campers parking outside there homes Graham......Or just maybe its something to do with SOME campers emptying there cassettes down the nearest grid and the rivers of grey water running down the gutter. Or something to do with filling lamppost waste bins with there rubbish until they are overflowing into the street. Of course am not suggesting that any responsible funster motorhomers would do such a thing as its an anti social activity .
I have seen all the above and more personally, but the culprits must belong to some other motorhome club . I even say an RV owner once macerating his black tank down a rainwater drain, oblivious to people walking bye, so if must have been the norm for him .

 

[GJH]

I cannot understand why home owners get upset by SOME campers parking outside there homes Graham......Or just maybe its something to do with SOME campers emptying there cassettes down the nearest grid and the rivers of grey water running down the gutter. Or something to do with filling lamppost waste bins with there rubbish until they are overflowing into the street. Of course am not suggesting that any responsible funster motorhomers would do such a thing as its an anti social activity .
I have seen all the above and more personally, but the culprits must belong to some other motorhome club . I even say an RV owner once macerating his black tank down a rainwater drain, oblivious to people walking bye, so if must have been the norm for him .

I don't know why either Dave, though you might be on the right track

The fact is that it does happen though and councillors who get earache from their electors will take action

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[pappajohn]

I don't think any court of law would expect you to obey a sign that wasn't there.
Speed limits could be a different matter as ,if there are street lights, the limit is 30 unless there are repeater signs saying something else. So if the 40 signs are missing you should only be doing 30.

even a rural 30 limit must have repeaters even if there is street lighting.
two local police motorcyclists (off duty) recently got off with speeding on this very technicality....now there are regulation repeaters to keep the street lighting company.

 

[teddybard]

OK. The law and why and the reality.

In UK, and most commom law countries everything is legal unless there is a specific law against it

There are national laws we are all supposed to know about and local laws or bye laws about which, because they vary, explicit warnings have to be given

1. There is no national no parking overnight and sleeping in your van law
2. You cannot do it on private land without land owners permission, but they can only ask you to leave, trespass is not a criminal offence
3. On public land there will be bye laws in all probability. The sign has to provide specific warning so no staying in vehicles over night is specific, no camping may not be if you have 40 foot USRV. No sleeping in vehicles is also specific. Anything else and you are free to stay and sleep

Practically do not stay where it might offend a near neighbour, do not have buckets for waste on show, don't park where there are gates which might be closed to ock you in, may be in the right but do you want to waste time with a jobs worth in the morning.

Leave early, quietly and tidily

Remember it is not the police who will endoprce most bye laws but bye law officers, they will be tucked up at home in nice warm beds and do 09.00 to 17.30. If you are approached by an irate member of the public, explain you are not local, sympathise with him, ask him to show you the bye law and where the warning sign is.

Good common sense on the whole but
If it goes Wrong we could be Looking at

Vlad the Impounded

 

[GJH]

even a rural 30 limit must have repeaters even if there is street lighting.
[HI]two local police motorcyclists (off duty) recently got off with speeding on this very technicality....now there are regulation repeaters to keep the street lighting company.[/HI]

Makes a change if they are going that slow Their colleagues who got off after being caught on Birk Brow a few years ago were doing over 50

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[Vlad The Impaler]

Good common sense on the whole but
If it goes Wrong we could be Looking at

Vlad the Impounded

I beg to differ,like a couple of others on here when I do it I do it right!

Vlad the INVISIBLE.