Brtit Stops

Discussion in 'UK Touring' started by keith, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. keith

    keith Funster

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    Just seen this on another forum http://www.britstops.com/index.html

    As the site was very un-informative, I e-mailed them and their reply was as follows:

    Many thanks for your message. We always planned to “go live” in mid March, but may have to jump the gun a bit now that the message is out on MHF!
    As you probably saw, our website is primarily set up to procure and register host sites at the moment - we do have the pages for motorhome members ready in the background, so will now have to get those up online sooner rather than later! Look out for new pages on our website over the next week, but we could be up and running as early as tomorrow!
    Membership will cost £25, but there will be a pre-order discount of £5. MHF members should look out on the forum for a further discount, though. Of course if you are aware of or used France Passion, you will know that the initial cost of membership can be recouped in one or two stopovers.
    As keen users of France Passion ourselves we really can't see the downside to the scheme for either motorhome owners or host sites, so we're really keen to make this work in Britain like it does in mainland Europe. We do know, however, that those who haven't come across the European schemes sometimes need some extra explanation, so as many of us as possible spreading the word will really help.
    Thanks again for your interest, we hope you'll join Brit Stops and enjoy stopping over at the many different sites, whether you are looking out for new and interesting places to stay or simply looking to break a long journey.

    Steve
    www.britstops.com

    Seems to me they could be a partner of the other forum.
     
  2. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

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    interesting idea and it works abroad because they do not need the planning permissions we do. Unless the company aim to register all the sites as 5 van CS sites I fail to see how it could work legally speaking.
     
  3. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Hi Keith

    you may recall some years ago, a facts member tried to start up a scheme called British Passion ... didn't get off the ground, perhaps a fresh initiative.. ?

    There is also the other site called Motorhome Stopover .. same idea .. costs £30 per annum .


    thanks for posting
    Jim
     
  4. Jim

    Jim Ringleader

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    The motorhome stopovers are exempted through the MCC certificate. To be legal, the sites will need to be exempted by a recreational club with all the appropriate permissions
     
  5. keith

    keith Funster

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    Indeed Jim & the same lady (Carol) is still a member of another forum I look at, the motorhome list. It does not appear to be the same, it seems to be another try by this guy called Steve, but it has an advert for facts on there and from his e-mail it says it will be announced on that forum.

    Motorhome Stopover is only pubs as I recall, this appears to be aiming for much more.

    Be interesting to watch what happens, but as Jim said the legal side of it needs to be sorted.
     
  6. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Yes., now I remember it was Carol ..

    I'm not clued up on this, perhaps someone can explain ...

    I was my understanding that using a pub, private / public car park or private property as an over night stop with the owners permission (not a camp site as in CL ) did not require a license or exemption.. am I wrong ?

    EDIT

    from Motorhome stopovers:
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  7. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    Jim you are getting mixed up with the Night Stop Scheme run by Practical Motorhome using the MCC as a way of exemption for the sites. This is dubiously legal. As you know only members of an exempted club, or members of another exempted club that has affiliation to the club holding the exemption, can use a CL according to Natural England. However this a Natural England's interpretation. The actual wording of the 1960 Act. has no such limitation. Just that is is exempted by the club for the use of its members.

    Paragraph 5


    (l) Subject
    to the provisions of paragraph 13of this Schedule, a site licence shall not be required for the use as a caravan site of
    land
    as respects which there is in force a certificate issued under this paragraph by an exempted organisation if not more than five



    caravans are at the time stationed for the purposes of human habitation on the land to which the certificate relates.



    (2)
    For the purposes of this paragraph an exempted organisation may issue as respects any land a certificate stating that the land
    has


    been approved by the exempted organisation for use by its members for the purposes of recreation.

    It does not state only by its members or that non members are not allowed to use the site.

    The Motorhome Stopover Scheme is run by a Publican and has no exemption status.

    The only way Brit Stop could operate legally is by limiting the number of vans at any stop to 1, and no more than 28 nights of occupancy of the site in any year.

    John
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  8. paulmold

    paulmold Read Only Funster

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    Doesn't the fact that the sites are not doing it 'for financial reward' make it no different to using a free car park or letting someone park on your drive and therefore not need planning permission and exemption certificates? I am not saying it doesn't, just asking the question.
     
  9. Jim

    Jim Ringleader

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    Yes, you are right John, I am getting mixed up,:Blush: its been a long night:BigGrin:
     
  10. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    NO it does not.


    1.—(l) Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act, no occupier of land shall after the commencement of this Act cause or permit any part of the land to be used as a caravan site unless he is the holder of a site licence (that is to say, a licence under this Part of this Act authorising the use of land as a caravan site) for the time being in force.

    (2)


    If the occupier of any land contravenes subsection (1) of this section he shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction, in the case of the first offence to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds, and, in the case of a second or subsequent offence, to a fine not exceeding two hundred and fifty pounds.


    The only exemption is the 28 day rule of 1 van for human habitation for a max of 28 days in a year, unless a certificate is held issued by an exempted organisation.

    In law you must comply with the above on any private land including car parks and your own property. Local Authorities do not need a site licence for land they own or control.​

    John​
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  11. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    John.. these are not caravan SITES they are overnight parking with owners permission..

    same as motorway service area or a Tesco carpark .. or indeed my driveway (with permission)

    why would they require exemption ?
     
  12. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    The words "FOR HUMAN HABITATION" in the act are the deciding factor. It is not parking if someone occupies the vehicle for living, eating, or sleeping.

    If the owner gives permission and exceeds the 28 day rule he is in breach of the law not the person in the Caravan or Motorhome.

    John
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  13. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    OK..

    so do motorway services that charge for overnight human habitation (not camping) break the law or do they have an exemption ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  14. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    Wether they charge or not is not important Jim.

    Motorway service areas were set up initialy and run by a government department. I do not know if any specific legislation was put in place to permit this use. They are franchised operations so could still be covered by that legislation.

    Crown and Dutchy land is exemped from the provisions of the 1960 Act.

    Part 1
    CARAVAN
    SITES

    Licensing of caravan sites

    28.
    The provisions of this Part of this Act relating to site licences shall apply to land the occupier of which is not the Crown not withstanding that an interest in the land belongs to Her Majesty in right of the Crown or of the Duchy of Lancaster, or to the Duchy of Cornwall, or belongs to a government department or is held in trust for Her Majesty for the purposes of a government department.

    I believe they are covered by the section above.

    John

     
  15. haganap

    haganap Funster Life Member

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    wow, dead interesting this. Might have to close my driveway down for visitors. :RollEyes:
    as I don;t want to break the law.:BigGrin:
     
  16. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    I believe that Natural England are at present holding a watching brief on the breaches to the 1960 Act by certain exempted and non exempted groups. However that situation could change.

    When I was in discussion with an officer from Natural England regarding the Act and exemptions. The office acknowledged that the act was out of date for present circumstances.
    I was told that changing the legislation at present was out of the question due to the cost of re writing the legislation.

    John
     
  17. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Sorry to keep harping on about this John .. I really do want to understand.

    You are saying, a pub landlord or private landowner who allows 24hr overnight stops for motorhomes (not camping) on his property and has no exemption cert. is breaking The Act. ?

    It's all very confusing :Blush:

    thank for your patience.
     
  18. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    Not to worry Haganap

    You are covered by this

    Use
    by a person travelling with a caravan for one or two nights

    2.
    Subject to the provisions of paragraph 13 of this Schedule, a

    site licence shall
    not be required for the use of land as a caravan
    site
    by a person travelling with a caravan who brings the caravan

    on
    to the land for a period which includes not more than two nights—
    (a)
    during that period no other caravan is stationed for the

    purposes of human habitation on
    that land or any adjoining

    land
    in the same occupation, and

    (b) if, in the period
    of twelve months ending with the day on

    which the
    caravan is brought on to the land, the number

    of
    days on which a caravan was stationed anywhere on that
    land or
    the said adjoining land for the purposes of human

    habitation did not exceed twenty-eight.

    That is unless you are exceeding the 28 day rule in (b) or having more than one van in (a) and they do not stay for longer than two nights.

    John
     
  19. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    Yes Jim, they are technically breaching the Caravan Sites and Control of development Act (1960).

    This is enforced by the planning department of the Local Authority. Some are hot on this and some are not.

    We have no differentiation in this country between parking and camping. The term used is "for human habitation".
     
  20. savannah

    savannah Read Only Funster

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    Are some people not being just a bit negative here ?????

    Surely we should be saying...great...good idea.....lets see/hope it works......after all, its for OUR benefit to have stopovers around the UK.

    We have used restaurants/bars all over europe for years and have never been refused a stay on the car park, whether in exchange for a meal/drink/breakfast or indeed pure goodwill ......

    Theres enough red tape around without having dubious/rarely, if ever,used legislation repeated....we all surely know people overnight in all sorts of places without getting hauled away......even if it may be, strictly speaking, against the letter of the law

    Good for you steve at Britstops.....I hope it works out as I hope all schemes work out that help make us motorhomers lives a bit easier as we travel around :thumb:
     
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