Brand New (1 Viewer)

[Deleted34567]

I've owned a new and used cars sales business for over 30 years, I've never owned a new vehicle.... ever !
Current steed is a 1998 c250 diesel merc, just because it was traded and owed the company nowt and was taxed and tested..
Same as MH, it was p/ex on a luxury car and never intended to use it much until we did and found we enjoyed touring.
But I notice SWMBO looking gingerly at new motorhomes and even the odd mention of it..... good job I'm deaf... LOL

 

[PP Bear]

Never had a new house, not sure I'd want one either. Best buy old and they're built much better, get more garden, can hang pictures and the walls won't shake if a door slams.......6 houses away

I've been able to feel what new cars were like. I managed 20 straight years stationed in Germany. Managed to save up and get my first tax free car in the mid 1990's. They held their value and 6 months later, I would swop for a new car. They changed the system later and it became every 12 months. Still managed to do a straight swop. Did 9 new cars on the bounce. Very luck, if you could call BAOR lucky

Came back to the UK on commissioning in 2006 with my last ever new car. Still got it as I couldn't afford another

 

[MR. FUSION]

I thought it cleaned the filter.....who is talking about thrashing. Would only consider nearly new low mileage one anyway If buying used. Normally get new these days as not much in it buying in Europe....

Thrashing refers to the German motorhome driving style....

Most modern diesels have an 'active' DPF cleaning system which does not rely on the exhaust getting to the required burn off temps, but the ECU triggers extra fuel in to perform a post combustion heat off the carbon deposits. But still with an older 'passive' cleaning System which relies on exhaust temps getting to a critical level, just driving down the motorway is enough.

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[Judge Mental]

Never had a new house, not sure I'd want one either. Best buy old and they're built much better, get more garden, can hang pictures and the walls won't shake if a door slams.......6 houses away

I've been able to feel what new cars were like. I managed 20 straight years stationed in Germany. Managed to save up and get my first tax free car in the mid 1990's. They held their value and 6 months later, I would swop for a new car. They changed the system later and it became every 12 months. Still managed to do a straight swop. Did 9 new cars on the bounce. Very luck, if you could call BAOR lucky

Came back to the UK on commissioning in 2006 with my last ever new car. Still got it as I couldn't afford another

you forgot to mention the creaking chipboard flooring

 

[Jaws]

Actually.................
I have had several brand new cars.. when I worked in IT I was given a new car every year
The novelty soon wears off ! ( So much so that it was not until I read some of the above I had forgotten all about them ! )

 

[mitzimad]

ive only ever bought one work van brand new and it spent as much time back at the dealers as it did on the road once the warranty was finished i watched it disintegrate before my eyes would never buy new again

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[Judge Mental]

Actually.................
I have had several brand new cars.. when I worked in IT I was given a new car every year
The novelty soon wears off ! ( So much so that it was not until I read some of the above I had forgotten all about them ! )

Soon as you drive out the showroom I believe...

 

[Carol]

We have had 6 Brand New Cars, one after the other, then the novelty wore off, not the slightest interest in new any more, kind of been there got the T shirt, now as long as it suits is in good condition that's all we need. Can't even think of any special feeling when we bought new so can't have been that important.

 

[TheCaller]

A motorhome is no different to any other motor vehicle. The moment you drive it onto the highway you lose the VAT. It doesn't matter what motorhome you've bought, 20% of a lot is a lot.

That's not how Vat works.

The price you pay includes Vat, but only in the same way as it includes the cost of the steel they made the chassis out of, the raw rubber in the tyres & the PAYE & NI on the wages of the salesman. It's just part of the cost of the vehicle. As is the cost of the 'free' coffee they gave you while you looked round the showroom, together with all the coffee they gave to the people that then went & bought elsewhere.

Talk of 'losing the Vat' is just dealer speak for 'I need a reason to explain why I'm only going to give you 80% of what you paid me last month if you want me to buy it back'. It's easier than explaining the true economics of new vehicle costs & margins.

Example:

Customer A buys a M/H for £100,000, then realises after the first trip away it was a terrible mistake. The dealer will buy it back, but only for £80,000.

The dealer can't sell it again for £100,000, it's second hand now. Best he can get from Customer B is £90,000. So he's made £10,000 gross on the 2nd sale, but he has to pay £1666.66 of that in Vat on this 2nd sale. So he's made £8333.34 for taking it in, cleaning it, putting it back in the showroom, demonstrating it to however many tyre kickers, paying the bank interest on the £80,000, all that free coffee - you get the idea.

Now the figures are made up, so would be different on every deal, but they demonstrate the principle.

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[Judge Mental]

Talk of 'losing the Vat' is just dealer speak for 'I need a reason to explain why I'm only going to give you 80% of what you paid me last month if you want me to buy it back'. It's easier than explaining the true economics of new vehicle costs & margins.

.

Precisely!...................Its a con

 

[Jaws]

Soon as you drive out the showroom I believe...

Welll.. It usually lasts until all the family and friends have seen it.. Nowt like a bit of posing in a brand new motor.. But once that bit is over theats about it really! !!

 

[StefAndDi]

That's not how Vat works.

The price you pay includes Vat, but only in the same way as it includes the cost of the steel they made the chassis out of, the raw rubber in the tyres & the PAYE & NI on the wages of the salesman. It's just part of the cost of the vehicle. As is the cost of the 'free' coffee they gave you while you looked round the showroom, together with all the coffee they gave to the people that then went & bought elsewhere.

Talk of 'losing the Vat' is just dealer speak for 'I need a reason to explain why I'm only going to give you 80% of what you paid me last month if you want me to buy it back'. It's easier than explaining the true economics of new vehicle costs & margins.

Example:

Customer A buys a M/H for £100,000, then realises after the first trip away it was a terrible mistake. The dealer will buy it back, but only for £80,000.

The dealer can't sell it again for £100,000, it's second hand now. Best he can get from Customer B is £90,000. So he's made £10,000 gross on the 2nd sale, but he has to pay £1666.66 of that in Vat on this 2nd sale. So he's made £8333.34 for taking it in, cleaning it, putting it back in the showroom, demonstrating it to however many tyre kickers, paying the bank interest on the £80,000, all that free coffee - you get the idea.

Now the figures are made up, so would be different on every deal, but they demonstrate the principle.

Thanks for your reply.
Having been in business until I retired (although not in the motor trade) I have a fair understanding of how VAT works, but you described it far better than I could ever have done.
My point is, it doesn't matter how you dress it up or do the sums, buying new can, for some, be a decision which is later regretted.
In my own case, a motorhome purchased just 8 months ago is now worth tens of thousands less than I paid for it. Whether that loss was VAT, free coffees or the dealers new Ferrari does not interest me.
It's a big loss.
I was simply responding to the interesting statement made by the OP.
Stef.

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[TheCaller]

Precisely!...................Its a con

That's not what I said.

The dealer's explanation may not be correct, but the economics behind the price difference don't change. It's only a con in the way that free coffee is a con. Everything that a dealer gives you is paid for out of the difference between his buying & selling price.

A salesman is trained to sell for as much as possible, buy for as little as possible, while both getting the deal & hopefully leaving the customer sweet enough to come back for the next one. I long since stopped listening to explanations from a salesman about why the price was what it was - they mostly won't even understand the true reasons themselves.

It's just easier for them to blame the government than to say it's to pay for the boss's holiday (or his divorce, or whatever).

 

[TheCaller]

In my own case, a motorhome purchased just 8 months ago is now worth tens of thousands less than I paid for it. Whether that loss was VAT, free coffees or the dealers new Ferrari does not interest me.
It's a big loss.

Very true.

 

[Judge Mental]

But I don't experience this VAT excuse, phenomena whatever you want to call it... So to me it looks like an excuse, con whatever you want to call it whatever the justification..I opted out or the UK van market 25 years ago and don't experience anything like the depreciation some of you talking about.

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[Frentchy]

So what happens if NO ONE buys new

 

[Charlie]

You lose all the VAT when you drive away.....Seriously? Or is that what UK dealers claim (another USP?)

When I look at new and nearly new in Germany that don't add up...

An immediate twenty percent is not lost.... Ok it has to be accepted there is always a loss when buying new but it's certainly not 20 percent.

I have had many new cars and motorcycles. I like the feeling a new car gives me plus the warranty that comes with it. I suppose once you enter into the mindset of buying new and more importantly can afford doing so it becomes the norm.

As a builder I would simply never buy a developed new build house. I would and do build or renovate my own.

 

[bellabee]

Our first van was 2 years old and low mileage when we bought it and we liked it. I don't think we ever really thought we'd buy new, but we went to Germany and bought new, this summer.

The thing that really struck us with the new van was that it was just that - 'brand spanking new,' and that was so obvious when we first climbed into it. It wasn't like the 'new' vans we'd seen in dealers' show rooms, which had had ourselves and countless others nosing round them, opening drawers, climbing on beds etc etc., but which were being sold as new. I include in this, the 'new' van at one of the summer shows, where dog muck had been walked into the floor, and was being cleaned off by the salesman using cleaning spray and a bit of kitchen roll.

The only person who'd been in our van before us was the dealer's employee who had carried out the PDI - and how obvious it was! This made the van feel very special to us - although we're not at all precious about buying second hand.

To the OP, I'd say, just enjoy your van. Yes, a new van is nice, but it soon becomes 'not new.' The enjoyment you'll get from a used one is just the same as from a new one. It'll still take you to all the new places, where you'll have your adventures. Far better to buy within your means and enjoy yourself without worry, than to overextend yourself just for the sake of buying new.

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[Charlie]

On motor homes...
It really doesn't matter if it has been owned , It doesn't matter how many people have been inside the van. What matters is its condition and price. If a van is absolutely mint and I do mean mint and its way cheaper than an brand new one then why worry ? We do after all have to live in these things so its essential ... Well to me at least that the condition is nothing less than perfect !

We bought our van at 16 months old. It was in perfect condition with not a mark inside or out and under 8.000 miles. It was 15 grand cheaper than a brand new one.

Like most we set out with a budget. Like the OP of this thread I think having read a couple of his posts recently. It soon became apparent the budget would have to extended unless we settled for an older van or something less than mint. Honestly the stink inside a couple of vans from having dogs inside them put us off in an instant.

In an ideal world a brand spanker would have been on the drive but that extra 15K would have left us feeling uncomfortable.

I think MHs differ from cars in this respect. Cars that most of us drive cost quite a chunk of coin less than the MHs we have.

The other BIG factor for me at least is how we buy our vehicles. Now I/ we are old school and finance or these new fangled PCPs are something we would never consider. If we cant pay in full we cant afford it end of

What I'm saying is if one is buying on finance the difference of a few grand between a brand new one or a used one is spread over a number of years it may be easier to swallow. Paying with yer own cash focuses the mind a wee bit..

 

[busby]

That's Urban myth #127
In reality Thrashing a modern diesel wears the engine quicker and fills up the DPF quicker.

Don't think so,,,,BUSBY.

 

[MR. FUSION]

Don't think so,,,,BUSBY.

All explained here: http://www.hypermiler.co.uk/technical/the-diesel-particulate-filter-dpf-faq
I replied to judgementals quote 'diesels like being driven hard'
If you think pushing the engine to 2500 rpm to get into the DPF cleaning zone for a passive DPF system is 'driving hard' then I must be an F1 driver!!! Anyway if you go on the motorway or warm up the car properly there would be no need to do extra cleaning. I also pointed out that there is absolutely no need to rev up a modern diesel with an 'active' DPF cleaning system as the ECU is doing the cleaning job anyway. All you are doing is wearing the engine and waisting fuel.

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[Reallyretired]

I bought a new car once only. I wanted a Suzuki Grand Vitara back in 2004 when they were a proper 4x4, but I wanted a diesel one. Couldn't find a 2nd hand one anywhere, just lots of petrol ones, so bought new on a 0% finance deal. Two days after taking delivery a nice person keyed the bonnet and one wing, £2k repair cost on insurance. It was being new that made it a target, it wasn't even parked on the road at the time.
Must say it was a good car though, only repair cost I had in 8 years was replacement of the sump guard which I ripped off on a large slab of ice. Pxed it for about a third of its original cost, which I thought was pretty good, as it had a few dings.

 

[busby]

All explained here: http://www.hypermiler.co.uk/technical/the-diesel-particulate-filter-dpf-faq
I replied to judgementals quote 'diesels like being driven hard'
If you think pushing the engine to 2500 rpm to get into the DPF cleaning zone for a passive DPF system is 'driving hard' then I must be an F1 driver!!! Anyway if you go on the motorway or warm up the car properly there would be no need to do extra cleaning. I also pointed out that there is absolutely no need to rev up a modern diesel with an 'active' DPF cleaning system as the ECU is doing the cleaning job anyway. All you are doing is wearing the engine and waisting fuel.

Thought diesel engines were fitted with governers so you cannot over rev them..Been driving diesels for 50 odd years,,always clogged them,,,never blown one up or worn one out,,,BUSBY.

 

[Big bus man]

Nothing wrong with buying new if you are happy with the depreciation, I don't mean happy as whippeeee but as in you can afford the loss, personally I would rather have a better second hand van than a basic new one but the biggest advantage to buying new has to be that you can order exactly what you want.

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[MR. FUSION]

Thought diesel engines were fitted with governers so you cannot over rev them..Been driving diesels for 50 odd years,,always clogged them,,,never blown one up or worn one out,,,BUSBY.

I won't be buying a SH motorhome from your good self in that case I don't rev any vehicle, because they last longer.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

It's nice if you can afford it but there is nothing wrong with used and as Stef has said you pay lots of Vat for new.

When you buy secondhand you still pay towards the VAT even privately as the person selling include the VAT as the price they pay and you pay a lesser figure but probably more than the full price without VAT. It is just un-missable cost in life, in fact the government make probably more profit out of a new sale than any other party, maker supplier dealer etc all make a mark up but the HMRC are guaranteed their 20%.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

you forgot to mention the creaking chipboard flooring

matches my 120 year old creaking floorboards and stairs then

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[GWAYGWAY]

I am still looking at one van type and an identical one came up for sale locally at a Dealer for £12000 off after less than 10 months, the dealer tried to tell me it was theirs, but I think they were porkying, the loss to the first buyer was bigger than that as the dealer MUST be brokering it as they would not take part exchange. That means they have added a load of wallop to the price the first owner gets. That is a LOT OF MONEY to lose in 10 months. I have the chance of getting the same model NEW for £5000 more with a full warranty on all of it for 3 years and a new registration. Only thing worries me now is the weight which seems a very marginal value. I probably will not be getting it and go to Belgium or Germany for another instead. I find that Salesmen DO NOT LIKE a punter who has researched the sale and specs too carefully, they cannot buXXXXit them so easily.

 

[DBK]

All explained here: http://www.hypermiler.co.uk/technical/the-diesel-particulate-filter-dpf-faq
I replied to judgementals quote 'diesels like being driven hard'
If you think pushing the engine to 2500 rpm to get into the DPF cleaning zone for a passive DPF system is 'driving hard' then I must be an F1 driver!!! Anyway if you go on the motorway or warm up the car properly there would be no need to do extra cleaning. I also pointed out that there is absolutely no need to rev up a modern diesel with an 'active' DPF cleaning system as the ECU is doing the cleaning job anyway. All you are doing is wearing the engine and waisting fuel.

I don't think that link says anything to support your view. In the section about how long a DPF should last it clearly says with a vehicle used in a city the DPF will not last as long as one used say on motorways. In other words passive cleaning (which happens on a long run at reasonable engine revs, say when driving on a motorway) is better than the active DPF cleaning which a city vehicle will tend to use.

I doubt the the Judge was suggesting over-stressing the engine, just make sure it gets hot enough and is given the chance to clear its tubes, so to speak.

 

[gus-lopez]

Anyway if you go on the motorway or warm up the car properly there would be no need to do extra cleaning. l.

So why do I know 5 people, who do nothing but motorway driving , who have all had dpf failure neccesitating replacment ?

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